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Douglas Murray Signed


nhfarber
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Meh...same "experts" on message boards everywhere would have derided Gainey if he picked Milan Lucic instead of Ben Maxwell in 2006 because he was a lumbering hunchback, instead of a smallish skill/speed guy. Fans everywhere have been over this issue, but some people don't like tough hockey, and would prefer the percentages game of a Tomas Kaberle with Jacques Martin behind the bench, instead of some good old, smash mouth Canadian hockey. Let's just say that Douglas Murray will bring more entertainment to the table than a 5-10, 180lb puck possession monster. Smurf apologists beware, Bergevin and Therrien like the big boys, and tough hockey, and when the Leafs and Bruins come to town, you may have to put your nancy-boy kids to bed early so they won't see all the blood...

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Meh...same "experts" on message boards everywhere would have derided Gainey if he picked Milan Lucic instead of Ben Maxwell in 2006 because he was a lumbering hunchback, instead of a smallish skill/speed guy. Fans everywhere have been over this issue, but some people don't like tough hockey, and would prefer the percentages game of a Tomas Kaberle with Jacques Martin behind the bench, instead of some good old, smash mouth Canadian hockey. Let's just say that Douglas Murray will bring more entertainment to the table than a 5-10, 180lb puck possession monster. Smurf apologists beware, Bergevin and Therrien like the big boys, and tough hockey, and when the Leafs and Bruins come to town, you may have to put your nancy-boy kids to bed early so they won't see all the blood...

hear! hear! I like tough hockey and the habs have gotten a lot tougher. I do not want to watch the forking laffs or their dimwitted cousins the broons slap us around any more. I want us to do some slapping for a change. :habslogo:

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hear! hear! I like tough hockey and the habs have gotten a lot tougher. I do not want to watch the forking laffs or their dimwitted cousins the broons slap us around any more. I want us to do some slapping for a change. :habslogo:

And it makes you wonder where it will end if the guy behind the bench likes tough hockey and the players can hang in a grudge match. Perhaps the Ottawa game was just a preview? How far will Ryan White go if he has Parros, Prust and Murray out on the ice with him? I bet the Northeast can be like the Old Norris division.

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Advanced stats are great, the reason Berskshire slurps donkey schlong, is not just the fact that he pastes graphs from other sites, and regurgitated the definitions of said stats like he invented standard deviation, but the fact that he can't do QUALITATIVE analysis.

For instance...

Does the fact that Douglas Murray's advanced stats were horrible last year suggest a natural/irreversible regression, or is this due to a condensed schedule? I would guess the latter. Chara and Lucic got worn down last year, like many power forwards and big defensemen. No one is saying he is the savior, but a big, crease clearing defensemen playing against sheltered competition is probably the smallest issue facing any NHL team.

I don't think the condensed schedule is much of an argument in Murray's favour; Lucic and Chara still managed to perform well in the playoffs (which Murray didn't). Plus we have the Olympics this year, which will cause the schedule to be almost as compressed over 82 games. It could be, however, that Murray is the type of player that would benefit from a full training camp, but that's just speculation.

Meh...same "experts" on message boards everywhere would have derided Gainey if he picked Milan Lucic instead of Ben Maxwell in 2006 because he was a lumbering hunchback, instead of a smallish skill/speed guy. Fans everywhere have been over this issue, but some people don't like tough hockey, and would prefer the percentages game of a Tomas Kaberle with Jacques Martin behind the bench, instead of some good old, smash mouth Canadian hockey. Let's just say that Douglas Murray will bring more entertainment to the table than a 5-10, 180lb puck possession monster. Smurf apologists beware, Bergevin and Therrien like the big boys, and tough hockey, and when the Leafs and Bruins come to town, you may have to put your nancy-boy kids to bed early so they won't see all the blood...

I think you're getting a little carried away here. No one was arguing against all tough hockey in principle, they were pointing out reasons why Murray in particular might not be effective any more, and that there were other options out there. Also you used a straw man (Lucic example) and resorted to petty name-calling (nancy boys), which doesn't really contribute to thoughtful discussion.

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I don't think the condensed schedule is much of an argument in Murray's favour; Lucic and Chara still managed to perform well in the playoffs (which Murray didn't). Plus we have the Olympics this year, which will cause the schedule to be almost as compressed over 82 games. It could be, however, that Murray is the type of player that would benefit from a full training camp, but that's just speculation.

I think you're getting a little carried away here. No one was arguing against all tough hockey in principle, they were pointing out reasons why Murray in particular might not be effective any more, and that there were other options out there. Also you used a straw man (Lucic example) and resorted to petty name-calling (nancy boys), which doesn't really contribute to thoughtful discussion.

Come on. He is just a depth guy on the cheap. No biggy. I do believe there are some here who just don't like tough guys. Too BAD.

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Come on. He is just a depth guy on the cheap. No biggy. I do believe there are some here who just don't like tough guys. Too BAD.

Hey, I like the signing. There just happen to be some sound arguments against it, which could be responded to reasonably instead of some of what I was referencing above.

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I don't think the condensed schedule is much of an argument in Murray's favour; Lucic and Chara still managed to perform well in the playoffs (which Murray didn't). Plus we have the Olympics this year, which will cause the schedule to be almost as compressed over 82 games. It could be, however, that Murray is the type of player that would benefit from a full training camp, but that's just speculation.

I think you're getting a little carried away here. No one was arguing against all tough hockey in principle, they were pointing out reasons why Murray in particular might not be effective any more, and that there were other options out there. Also you used a straw man (Lucic example) and resorted to petty name-calling (nancy boys), which doesn't really contribute to thoughtful discussion.

I don't know much about Straw Man, but if he suits up for the Black and Gold this year he's going to get bloodied. Finally! The era of the "911 Nancies" is over! Concussions for everyone!!!

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Jordan Tootoo will have a lot on his plate in Detroit...

It's going to be very interesting to see how Detroit's brand of hockey translates to the toughest division in hockey. They haven't dealt with the thuggery of the Bruins and the Leafs yet. I don't think they can hang. That defense is soft like butter, Howard is a joke, and they are full of declining star Euros.

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It's going to be very interesting to see how Detroit's brand of hockey translates to the toughest division in hockey. They haven't dealt with the thuggery of the Bruins and the Leafs yet. I don't think they can hang. That defense is soft like butter, Howard is a joke, and they are full of declining star Euros.

Detroit's brand isn't that far off of what the Habs are - smaller, more finesse, and puck possession oriented. Montreal acquitted themselves fairly well last year I'd say by winning the division. :) That said, I expect there will be some nights where they get dominated in the physical category...much like the Habs. I don't think they're a bonafide contender but given their track record, it's impossible to write them off either.

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If Murray knocks the snot out of Lucic just once, he's earned his salary in my books.

At least the good news about Lucic is that he's into his own press about being a first liner and doesn't go half as much as he used to. I'd like to see him and Tinordi go, but he's not ready, and having guys like Prust, Parros, Murray and what used to be Travis Moen is that he'll be spared the Komisarek Treatment.

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I don't know much about Straw Man, but if he suits up for the Black and Gold this year he's going to get bloodied. Finally! The era of the "911 Nancies" is over! Concussions for everyone!!!

:D

Detroit's brand isn't that far off of what the Habs are - smaller, more finesse, and puck possession oriented. Montreal acquitted themselves fairly well last year I'd say by winning the division. :) That said, I expect there will be some nights where they get dominated in the physical category...much like the Habs. I don't think they're a bonafide contender but given their track record, it's impossible to write them off either.

One of the big questions for me coming into this year is where Detroit stacks up in the new division. As it stands, it looks like the Habs have three teams ahead of them in Boston, Ottawa and Detroit, with Toronto somewhere close, but with reasonable progression from the youth and a strong Price I'd say we can snatch third.

If Murray knocks the snot out of Lucic just once, he's earned his salary in my books.

I remember thinking the same for Laraque (also including Chara), hopefully Murray fares better. Maybe being a D instead of a 4th liner he'll be important enough for one of them to fight.

It is a nice feeling to finally expect to win some fights.

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People play and watch hockey for different, and evolving, reasons. Sure, you can let your Neanderthal-side get riled up by the bloody stuff - I know I use to as a younger player. But it all just seems like so much unnecessary and gratuitous thuggery to me now. Especially in light of recent concussion research which has parents all over the country, like my wife and I, reconsidering organized hockey as a pastime for their kids. Just not worth long-term brain damage, sorry.

Personally, I have come to believe that the game is better without fighting and related-violence. But, I use to believe otherwise, so I can sympathize with those who still do.

Body contact is another story and can be done well with minimal violence and injury. Murray was once very good at that. The key issue here is that ALL the evidence (not just some) points to the fact that he has suffered a serious decline during the past few seasons in speed and effectiveness. He is no longer clearing the net or his own zone effectively enough to be a contributor at the NHL level. His team is getting hemmed in its own zone more and more when he is one the ice, which leads to shots and goals against, and losses.

I think we can all agree that we want the Habs to win. Murray is going to hurt that effort if he plays. Therrien is a good enough coach to recognize this, so I am not worried about him seeing very much ice this year. If he can turn his career around after three years of decline, good on him. But it is doubtful.

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People play and watch hockey for different, and evolving, reasons. Sure, you can let your Neanderthal-side get riled up by the bloody stuff - I know I use to as a younger player. But it all just seems like so much unnecessary and gratuitous thuggery to me now. Especially in light of recent concussion research which has parents all over the country, like my wife and I, reconsidering organized hockey as a pastime for their kids. Just not worth long-term brain damage, sorry.

Personally, I have come to believe that the game is better without fighting and related-violence. But, I use to believe otherwise, so I can sympathize with those who still do.

Body contact is another story and can be done well with minimal violence and injury. Murray was once very good at that. The key issue here is that ALL the evidence (not just some) points to the fact that he has suffered a serious decline during the past few seasons in speed and effectiveness. He is no longer clearing the net or his own zone effectively enough to be a contributor at the NHL level. His team is getting hemmed in its own zone more and more when he is one the ice, which leads to shots and goals against, and losses.

I think we can all agree that we want the Habs to win. Murray is going to hurt that effort if he plays. Therrien is a good enough coach to recognize this, so I am not worried about him seeing very much ice this year. If he can turn his career around after three years of decline, good on him. But it is doubtful.

Murray hardly fights nor take many penalties, heard almost identical stuff you are saying about footspeed when Gill was signed. How can an already slow guy suffer a serious decline in speed?

Concussions from fighting are small percentage, but I do agree fighting should be banned, but it sells and the owners know that, same reason WHL president wants no part of banning fighting.

Is Murray smart enough to not pinch nor try and stand up at blueline and play to his strengths? I don't know, never watched San Jose nor paid Murray much attention before? Other than when other players bounced off him or he steamrolls someone.

But I think Bergevin and Dudley have a good idea of his capabilities.

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How is it that Hal Gill is being referred to as an obvious bust in this thread? He was a solid asset for us when he played here - absolutely crucial in the room, superb on the PK and serviceable in general. It bugs me that his contribution has been retroactively devalued just because he was slow.

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How is it that Hal Gill is being referred to as an obvious bust in this thread? He was a solid asset for us when he played here - absolutely crucial in the room, superb on the PK and serviceable in general. It bugs me that his contribution has been retroactively devalued just because he was slow.

if u r referring to my reference to Big Hal, you got it backwards.

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How is it that Hal Gill is being referred to as an obvious bust in this thread? He was a solid asset for us when he played here - absolutely crucial in the room, superb on the PK and serviceable in general. It bugs me that his contribution has been retroactively devalued just because he was slow.

Big Hal was slow but his stick was 8 feet long, which made him very effective on the pk and in his own end. If Murray can be as effective as Hal was, it's a great signing. I am not a fan of gratuitous violence but I am not a turn the other cheek guy. If their goons want to mix it up we have to have the tools to react. We have more tools now than last year when we got embarrassed by the laffs and broons.

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We were 5-4 against Boston and Toronto last year and finished above both in the standings. Am I missing something here? We did lose one game 6-0 to Toronto and another 5-1... is that what this is really about?

I'm more concerned about our 0-3 record against Pittsburgh than I am about the Boston/Toronto records. We had a good record vs Boston (3-1). We allowed 14 goals to Pittsburgh in 3 games, two of them were 6+ goal efforts. My main concern with Murray is if he can help prevent teams like Pittsburgh from lighting up the scoresheet against us. I don't think he does at all.

I'm also more concerned about Detroit than Toronto. I am concerned about Boston but don't feel that we match up against them badly overall. Whatever we give up physically to them we make up for in other areas. Toronto games have always been weird ones for us but last year they rode a hot goalie to a playoff spot and I suspect they'll fall back much like the past two teams that took the EC champion to 7th game OT did: us in 2011 and Florida in 2012. They aren't a well built hockey team.

We've got to make the playoffs first but our path through them most likely is Detroit, Boston and Ottawa before hitting up a Pittsburgh/Washington/Rangers team in the next round.

I like physical hockey. But my qualifier for every acquisition before it happens is "can the guy play?" If he can, and adds physicality on top of that or as part of that, then I'm quite happy. If he can't play, I don't care if he's physical or not. I'm looking for wins.

As for what Bergevin and Therrien like, I'll point out that the two biggest contracts the Habs have handed out in 2013 were to David Desharnais ($14m) and Daniel Briere ($8m). Price has gotten the most money since they arrived, then Pacioretty, then Desharnais, then Prust who got a little more than Briere did over 4 years total compared to 2 for Briere. BTW, I think Prust can play.

Also, using homophobic slurs because someone disagrees with you on a hockey player's attributes? I don't even know how to respond to that. I probably shouldn't even give you the benefit of arguing reasonably in response.

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We were 5-4 against Boston and Toronto last year and finished above both in the standings. Am I missing something here? We did lose one game 6-0 to Toronto and another 5-1... is that what this is really about?

I'm more concerned about our 0-3 record against Pittsburgh than I am about the Boston/Toronto records. We had a good record vs Boston (3-1). We allowed 14 goals to Pittsburgh in 3 games, two of them were 6+ goal efforts. My main concern with Murray is if he can help prevent teams like Pittsburgh from lighting up the scoresheet against us. I don't think he does at all.

I'm also more concerned about Detroit than Toronto. I am concerned about Boston but don't feel that we match up against them badly overall. Whatever we give up physically to them we make up for in other areas. Toronto games have always been weird ones for us but last year they rode a hot goalie to a playoff spot and I suspect they'll fall back much like the past two teams that took the EC champion to 7th game OT did: us in 2011 and Florida in 2012. They aren't a well built hockey team.

We've got to make the playoffs first but our path through them most likely is Detroit, Boston and Ottawa before hitting up a Pittsburgh/Washington/Rangers team in the next round.

I like physical hockey. But my qualifier for every acquisition before it happens is "can the guy play?" If he can, and adds physicality on top of that or as part of that, then I'm quite happy. If he can't play, I don't care if he's physical or not. I'm looking for wins.

As for what Bergevin and Therrien like, I'll point out that the two biggest contracts the Habs have handed out in 2013 were to David Desharnais ($14m) and Daniel Briere ($8m). Price has gotten the most money since they arrived, then Pacioretty, then Desharnais, then Prust who got a little more than Briere did over 4 years total compared to 2 for Briere. BTW, I think Prust can play.

Also, using homophobic slurs because someone disagrees with you on a hockey player's attributes? I don't even know how to respond to that. I probably shouldn't even give you the benefit of arguing reasonably in response.

well in the 6-0 loss for instance we had galagher and gorges fighting guys twice their size (an exageration) we had prust fighting anyone he could get his hands on cause he was the only guy who can fight that we had. Yes it was embarrassing and its not the first time. Remember the beatdown by the broons. You may think these are ok things. I don't. We need to be able to fight back when we have to, and if we go back to the glory years nobody wanted to fight the canadiens including the broad street bullies. Mostly cause they got their patudies kicked. I want a highly skillied team such as in the 70's but we have to able to keep the other guys in check. Yes Murray can play, he is not a goon but a big guy who stands up for his team mates and plays stay at home defence. I didn't say anything homophobic so you are talking about someone else there.

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Big Hal was slow but his stick was 8 feet long, which made him very effective on the pk and in his own end. If Murray can be as effective as Hal was, it's a great signing. I am not a fan of gratuitous violence but I am not a turn the other cheek guy. If their goons want to mix it up we have to have the tools to react. We have more tools now than last year when we got embarrassed by the laffs and broons.

Yes, always seems to be the case, I remember whether it was Johnathan, OReilly, or Jay Miller, the Habs had to dress at least a couple players with questionable skills.

And no wonder Prust had a big smile when asked about Parros signing, am sure he would approve of Murray one as well. He seemed to play last part of season with separated shoulder and that combined with Yemelin injury seemed to be a big factor, Galchenyuk seemed quite intimidated in one game, cant remember which one it was?

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I do remember one game galchenyuk shying away from a hit. It was the only time I've seen it from him and I hope he is more confident than that going forward

That one play just sort of stuck out, Galchenyuk looked like he knew he was gonna be hit hard to get the puck and wanted no part of it. But, no big deal at all, he was teenager vs I think was the Leafs, in a big physical game.

I would assume he comes into camp a bit bigger, play a Pacioretty type game and will have a fine year.

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We were 5-4 against Boston and Toronto last year and finished above both in the standings. Am I missing something here? We did lose one game 6-0 to Toronto and another 5-1... is that what this is really about?

I'm more concerned about our 0-3 record against Pittsburgh than I am about the Boston/Toronto records. We had a good record vs Boston (3-1). We allowed 14 goals to Pittsburgh in 3 games, two of them were 6+ goal efforts. My main concern with Murray is if he can help prevent teams like Pittsburgh from lighting up the scoresheet against us. I don't think he does at all.

I'm also more concerned about Detroit than Toronto. I am concerned about Boston but don't feel that we match up against them badly overall. Whatever we give up physically to them we make up for in other areas. Toronto games have always been weird ones for us but last year they rode a hot goalie to a playoff spot and I suspect they'll fall back much like the past two teams that took the EC champion to 7th game OT did: us in 2011 and Florida in 2012. They aren't a well built hockey team.

We've got to make the playoffs first but our path through them most likely is Detroit, Boston and Ottawa before hitting up a Pittsburgh/Washington/Rangers team in the next round.

I like physical hockey. But my qualifier for every acquisition before it happens is "can the guy play?" If he can, and adds physicality on top of that or as part of that, then I'm quite happy. If he can't play, I don't care if he's physical or not. I'm looking for wins.

As for what Bergevin and Therrien like, I'll point out that the two biggest contracts the Habs have handed out in 2013 were to David Desharnais ($14m) and Daniel Briere ($8m). Price has gotten the most money since they arrived, then Pacioretty, then Desharnais, then Prust who got a little more than Briere did over 4 years total compared to 2 for Briere. BTW, I think Prust can play.

Also, using homophobic slurs because someone disagrees with you on a hockey player's attributes? I don't even know how to respond to that. I probably shouldn't even give you the benefit of arguing reasonably in response.

I've commented here almost 700 times, and it's obvious that my statement was over the top, even for my standards.

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