Neech Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The good and the bad of Subban. He's the best player on the ice, responsible for two goals, but takes two terrible penalties, one that effectively ends the game. THIS is where the people who cite his immaturity have a valid point. Overall another flat game, pretty boring for long stretches. Very disappointing to have the fourth line on the ice for two goals against, I don't know what the hell was happening with White and Moen on the first one. Price was having a very good game until made that fumble in the third that almost ended up in the net. He certainly couldn't be faulted for any of the goals. At least we gave away points to the West... still a pretty crappy loss. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 That was a better third period, hopefully that gives them something to build off of for tomorrow's game in Edmonton. Sadly, that was a terrible penalty by Subban at the end, away from the play and everything. However, he was the spark that got the team going so it's hard to be too upset with him. (That's the second time this year he has done that though - the first one wasn't called - hopefully one of the coaches cautions him to not be quite so exuberant with the stick.) With Gorges getting hurt, I suspect we'll see Beaulieu tomorrow. Bouillon and Diaz will both likely have to play heavy minutes, at least at the levels comparable to tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Three Stars are uphttp://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=3217 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobblehead Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Patches season will be a disaster on that line. Id rather see him play with Prust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Patches season will be a disaster on that line. Id rather see him play with Prust. He would be better of moving to center flanked by Parros and Moen. At least they drive to the net. That line is a zero! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The problem with the D is Markov. He is suppose to be our number two D, but he is no where good enough anymore. Add Emelin being out and we are missing two pieces from our top 4. This forces Boo Boo and Diaz to get way too much ice time. Frankly, if we are not in the playoffs at the deadline, Markov should be dealt to a contender who need him for the PP, but don't need twenty plus a night from him. Maybe Markov is just starting slow, but I suspect he just doesn't have the speed anymore. One of my favorite players but time marches on. They need to get a real centre to replace DD and get at least one top 4 Defenceman, both of which are unlikely to happen. Frankly, I won't be surprised to see us miss the playoffs. The kids look great...I wished we had tanked last year and gotten another top pick to really kick start the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobblehead Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I saw Patches strong agaisnt the boards and driving to the net with a dman on him a few times. Briere is so soft and his giveaways are horrible. Deharnais looks like a three legged donkey on skates.... Even when he tries to use his "speed" he is always in the wrong spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobblehead Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) The other issue is that the two best centers on this team are playing on the same line. Id rather see another big talented winger come here and puts the kids at center. Edited October 10, 2013 by Bobblehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The problem with the D is Markov. He is suppose to be our number two D, but he is no where good enough anymore. Add Emelin being out and we are missing two pieces from our top 4. This forces Boo Boo and Diaz to get way too much ice time. Frankly, if we are not in the playoffs at the deadline, Markov should be dealt to a contender who need him for the PP, but don't need twenty plus a night from him. Maybe Markov is just starting slow, but I suspect he just doesn't have the speed anymore. One of my favorite players but time marches on. They need to get a real centre to replace DD and get at least one top 4 Defenceman, both of which are unlikely to happen. Frankly, I won't be surprised to see us miss the playoffs. The kids look great...I wished we had tanked last year and gotten another top pick to really kick start the rebuild. Well, I didn't see the game...but this post is in tune with my own concerns about the blueline. And that was before Markov's loss of speed was confirmed by his plodding this season (remember, there was a view that he'd come back stronger, etc.). I thought Bergevin at least partially addressed the holes in signing Murray, but obviously that was way too optimistic an assessment. For all of the raving about forwards, then, it might be the defence corps where we really need to look for help. Desharnais is one thing, a team without a solid top-4 is another. A disappointing result, but when the team loses every single time in plays is Cowtown, how can we really be surprised? It's like those opening night games against the Leafs, essentially a guaranteed loss, for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The problem isn't Markov, it's how he is being used. Markov should be under 20 minutes and Subban should be over 25. When I checked the stats mid way through the third, even Calgary had 3 dmen getting more ice time than Subban. Bouillon should be benched or be under 12 minutes and bealieu should get a look. Diaz and Bouillon do not belong on the PK. Unfortunately, Bouillon is therrian's darche/mien. The problem with the D is Markov. He is suppose to be our number two D, but he is no where good enough anymore. Add Emelin being out and we are missing two pieces from our top 4. This forces Boo Boo and Diaz to get way too much ice time. Frankly, if we are not in the playoffs at the deadline, Markov should be dealt to a contender who need him for the PP, but don't need twenty plus a night from him. Maybe Markov is just starting slow, but I suspect he just doesn't have the speed anymore. One of my favorite players but time marches on. They need to get a real centre to replace DD and get at least one top 4 Defenceman, both of which are unlikely to happen. Frankly, I won't be surprised to see us miss the playoffs. The kids look great...I wished we had tanked last year and gotten another top pick to really kick start the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Yea, the problem with the D is they are playing 4 bottom pair defenseman. Bouillon, Diaz, Gorges, (Tinordi at this stage) on a good team may not even crack the lineup on a good team. As a group they are slow and soft and can't win any battles. Markov is fine, he is incredibly slow at this point so he shouldn't be getting huge minutes. I would bench DD, try Galchenyuk between patches and Briere, Use Bournial's speed for Eller's wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Yea, the problem with the D is they are playing 4 bottom pair defenseman. Bouillon, Diaz, Gorges, (Tinordi at this stage) on a good team may not even crack the lineup on a good team. As a group they are slow and soft and can't win any battles. Markov is fine, he is incredibly slow at this point so he shouldn't be getting huge minutes. I would bench DD, try Galchenyuk between patches and Briere, Use Bournial's speed for Eller's wing. Subban had a bad penalty at the end for sure, but he also threw the team on his back in the third. The team looks terrible besides the youngsters. Everyone hates on Bouilion, but he has played his game well in this young season(nothing to write home about). It's hard to point fingers this early, but we can all see flaws in this team. I would have Plek and Diaz on the block if I was running the show. Plek is a good player, but he's not a guy who going to take us deep. I don't know what he would bring in with a trade, but I do think shaking things up is a good idea. As for Diaz, he should not be in a Montreal uniform. That's all I have to say about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 So. Is MB patient while injured d-men recuperate? Or does he start to look at his rearguard situation with an eye to an upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Markov is the problem because we have no one to take his minutes. He was expected to do 25 minutes, like PK, who would have if he wasn't in the box for four. It also hurt with Gorges out. Markov would b fine if he was a second pairing guy, but they expected him to be a top pairing guy, which he isn't. Really, it is the same problem up front where Pleks and Gionta are in decline, but they thought DD could be the number one guy. If we had a real number one center, the kid line as the second line, then Pleks, Gionta, and Bourque would be an incredible third line. Solid defensively with great secondary scoring. Sadly, I saw this coming when DD racked up points between Pacs and Cole. That contract was a huge mistake. Gomez would have had a career year between those two guys. So in summary, we still need a number one center (should have gotten Grabs instead of Briere), and a top pairing Defenceman. Didn't happen, so it's going to be a long season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Trading Plex is a desperation move. He should have, oh, another 3-4 years of quality service to give - which is potentially significant for any Cup window within that span. On the other hand, I still think Plex could bring back an Edler. As for Markov, the guy I saw for games one and two is tremendously slow. Good hands, but skating in cement. Habs29 makes an interesting point that the problem isn't the player per se so much as his usage, but if you lower his minutes, who are you going to use instead? I hate to say this, but I suspect Markov is going to become the new version of MAB, a dangerous PP specialist who ends up taking way too many even-strength minutes because the overall configuration on the back end is so weak. If I'm MB, I don't show too much patience. It's hard to make the playoffs given the new format and alignment, and a team that falls behind early will be in dire straits. I realize that he is "building," but that doesn't mean you roll over and die in the meantime. Now there's no need to panic just yet...it's only three games. One of the problems is, who do you trade for help on D? This team is so small up front that guys who would be useful secondary pieces in a trade for a good defenceman, like Moen or Bourque, would be disproportionately costly for us to give up. Pleks is our most important forward, so moving him would be a tremendously high-risk move. A guy like Gorges would be in demand, but moving him for another defenceman would be a lateral move. Other than hoping we can take advantage of a desperate Edmonton and spin DD into some sort of prospect or reclamation project on defence, it's really hard to see how we can fix the D via trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Trading Plex is a desperation move. He should have, oh, another 3-4 years of quality service to give - which is potentially significant for any Cup window within that span. On the other hand, I still think Plex could bring back an Edler.As for Markov, the guy I saw for games one and two is tremendously slow. Good hands, but skating in cement. Habs29 makes an interesting point that the problem isn't the player per se so much as his usage, but if you lower his minutes, who are you going to use instead? I hate to say this, but I suspect Markov is going to become the new version of MAB, a dangerous PP specialist who ends up taking way too many even-strength minutes because the overall configuration on the back end is so weak.If I'm MB, I don't show too much patience. It's hard to make the playoffs given the new format and alignment, and a team that falls behind early will be in dire straits. I realize that he is "building," but that doesn't mean you roll over and die in the meantime.Now there's no need to panic just yet...it's only three games. One of the problems is, who do you trade for help on D? This team is so small up front that guys who would be useful secondary pieces in a trade for a good defenceman, like Moen or Bourque, would be disproportionately costly for us to give up. Pleks is our most important forward, so moving him would be a tremendously high-risk move. A guy like Gorges would be in demand, but moving him for another defenceman would be a lateral move. Other than hoping we can take advantage of a desperate Edmonton and spin DD into some sort of prospect or reclamation project on defence, it's really hard to see how we can fix the D via trade. I agree, M.B can't sit back and wait. If he is questioning a trade, it should happen sooner than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I agree, M.B can't sit back and wait. If he is questioning a trade, it should happen sooner than later. Well, one of the points of my (admittedly rambling) post was that it's hard to see how we have the materials to make a viable trade that wouldn't hurt us in other areas. Barring a surge by Beaulieu, it's not going to be easy to fix what ails us in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I think simply moving DD and Bouillon to a team desperate for a centre and a dman for low draft picks, would at least allow us to give some kids a look. If Bealieu, patryn, and Bournavil don't look like they belong, we can send them back down. If we are going to lose I'd rather lose by seeing what we have in our kids than play guys who don't deserve the ice time they are getting. Well, one of the points of my (admittedly rambling) post was that it's hard to see how we have the materials to make a viable trade that wouldn't hurt us in other areas. Barring a surge by Beaulieu, it's not going to be easy to fix what ails us in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Grabovski is not a top center. Also, toss DD on Ovechkin's line and you wouldn't see goose eggs. We have two guys who could be developing into top centers in Eller and Galchenyuk. We need to stop focusing down the middle. DD will get another game or two before I bet Therrien benches him for a game to see how reacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Very disappointed in last nights game. Pissed off would be closer to the truth. Anyone who blames Price for this loss is either crazy or watched some other game by mistake. We need goal scorers, Bournival is a goal scorer, give him a try. Take DD out back and shoot him. If we are going to crap the bed like we did for 2 periods then lets see what the kids can do. Boullion is finished, not for a lack of trying, just a lack of skill. He was always a 5 or 6 def now he's a 7 on most teams. Diaz is almost useless at this point. Gorges needs a kick in the a$$, he can do a lot better than last night. Lets bring in Bournival and Beaulieu, hell they can't do any worse. I hope the guys are ashamed of themselves, I know I am. I hope that their pride will force them to play like professionals tonite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Grabovski is not a top center. Also, toss DD on Ovechkin's line and you wouldn't see goose eggs. We have two guys who could be developing into top centers in Eller and Galchenyuk. We need to stop focusing down the middle. DD will get another game or two before I bet Therrien benches him for a game to see how reacts. Grabs is much better then DD. It's not even a fair comparison. He isn't what I think of as a top center either, but he is better then DD and was actually available. Ie... He was a real option, not a fantasy trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Grabs is much better then DD. It's not even a fair comparison. He isn't what I think of as a top center either, but he is better then DD and was actually available. Ie... He was a real option, not a fantasy trade. I agree he's better, never said otherwise. But he is no top center. Lars Eller is better than him now, Alex Galchenyuk will be miles better by probably the end of the year. Habs fans need to realize that Desharnais is losing his top minutes. Our center problem is soon to be over. I repeat, our center problem is soon to be over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 People on this board called me crazy this summer when I said that Galchenyuk would be our best forward by Christmas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 People on this board called me crazy this summer when I said that Galchenyuk would be our best forward by Christmas... I don't consider it crazy. For some they don't want to get over excited for him. For others they want to rein in their expectations. There's also a lot who don't recognize we honestly got the best player of his draft class and I'd go so far as to say he's the best player under 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Grabs is much better then DD. It's not even a fair comparison. He isn't what I think of as a top center either, but he is better then DD and was actually available. Ie... He was a real option, not a fantasy trade. The odds of the habs bringing back that idiot are slim and none and slim left town a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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