comfortfablyHABS Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 IMHO, it's absurd to think race will have something to do with the decision. I believe it is unnecessary to bring up to discussion race, if he doesn't make it, it is because Yzerman sees him as a liability on the ice regardless of his immense skills. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 IMHO, it's absurd to think race will have something to do with the decision. I believe it is unnecessary to bring up to discussion race, if he doesn't make it, it is because Yzerman sees him as a liability on the ice regardless of his immense skills. yes and men who were white sheets and burn crosses, are just dressing up as ghosts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 It doesn't have anything to do with explicit/overt racism. All the good old boys who sniff at Subban's antics are, I'm sure, sincerely repulsed by any direct expression of racism. It has everything to do with the gut response that PK Subban has generated - and there is no doubt in my mind that this response reflects a subliminal racism that's all too common in our culture and its sport. Habs29 hit it on the head when he observed that white flamboyant or vocal players (Hull, Roenick, Iafrate, Tiger Williams) are "colourful" and "characters," while a black player doing is subject to all sorts of sanctimonious garbage about "the code." There's a code, all right: know your place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 yes and men who were white sheets and burn crosses, are just dressing up as ghosts A bit over the top bud. When did the official roster get posted? I missed that press release. 17 d-men at summer camp, PK was one of them if I recall correctly? Of those 17, 9-10 of them will be shit out of luck and watching games from a beach in Florida or Cuba, but I think PK will be in Russia. And is almost comical the reaction one Toronto media comment gets from Hab fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 There's the racism/flamboyance argument, then there's the fact that Subban is kind of a jerk. Diving, chirping, fighting teammates in practice, yelling at teammates on the bench, the early career slewfoots, hitting people with his "black ass." It's quite a list. And Subban is is my favorite Hab since Young Koivu. Maybe Team Canada wants to avoid the baggage while they still can. If he's healthy, he's a lock the next 2-3 Olympics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 What a great bargaining tool if he doesn't make the team though. Well PK, these are the NHL defenseman that made the Olympics... 6.5 mill 7 years bud. Wink wink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comfortfablyHABS Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Racism exists, I am not denying it. But I sincerely don't believe this is an issue in this case. Actually, and don't get me wrong, the opposite is an easier outcome. But anyway, I believe, as certainly most of you do, Subban is by far one of the best NHL defensemen out there. Yet he is a liability because of some issues on and off the ice in which some of you already mentioned. He still is a young player and it is a cost/benefit analysis. Maybe the GM thinks Canada has a group of players that can win in Socchi and that the benefit of adding Subban into the pack would increase the chances marginally. On the other hand, if he creates some sort of issue (specially off the ice) the whole project can go south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 IMHO, it's absurd to think race will have something to do with the decision. I believe it is unnecessary to bring up to discussion race, if he doesn't make it, it is because Yzerman sees him as a liability on the ice regardless of his immense skills. You are right--it is absurd to think race will have something to do with the decision to have PK on team Canada or not. However, that does not mean it will not happen. My wife is not white, but she is Canadian; her parents were born in Canada, her grandparents were born in Canada most of her great grandparents were born in Canada, but I have seen her being shadowed by store security guards in Canada. Absurd- yes. Repulsive- Yes. Infuriating- Yes! Happening even in 2013? Regrettably and pathetically, Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 Story in the globe that the Habs are not exactly boosting PK for the Olympics. It makes you wonder if they don't want him going for purely selfish reasons. One point in the article was that statistically, PKs reputation as being poor defensively isn't earned, he is an about average defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Cucumber is right that it's the old boys club but as I've pointed out before, Iginla is a part of that old boys club. So was Fuhr, who was also a cokehead gambling drunk but hey every Oiler was. Kevin Lowe still is when you see how he gambles the future of the Oilers every season. Before the Russians came to the league it was the French Canadians that didn't belong in the Old Boys club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Story in the globe that the Habs are not exactly boosting PK for the Olympics. It makes you wonder if they don't want him going for purely selfish reasons. One point in the article was that statistically, PKs reputation as being poor defensively isn't earned, he is an about average defender. He's great defensively if you take away the giveaways, which all puck moving defensemen collect by the bushel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileHabsFan Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Story in the globe that the Habs are not exactly boosting PK for the Olympics. It makes you wonder if they don't want him going for purely selfish reasons. One point in the article was that statistically, PKs reputation as being poor defensively isn't earned, he is an about average defender. MB is probably in contract talks with Subban right now or going to be in the immediate future. You won't hear any boosting until that contract is signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Racism? Really? So how was Jerome Iginla selected for the 2002, 2006 and 2010 winter olympics? If he doesnt make the team its because of an issue with too many right handed shooting defensemen and the dearth of lefthanders. Hes competing with Shea Weber, Drew Doughty, Alex Pietrangelo and probably a few others. Pretty talented group. I believe he'll be there. Hes quite simply a world class defensman right now. HIs skating and puck moving abilities are too good to pass up. Nobody cares that hes black and likes to talk. THey care about the colour gold more. Hes gives them a better chance to win gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 kaos makes good points but unfortunately there's one guy there riding on a reputation instead of being better than PK Subban. That man is Drew Doughty. Weber and Pietrangelo belong there just as much as Subban. Doughty? Not in the last season and a half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Iginla was OK. First of all, he was "light" black (these things matter in the world of subliminal racial responses) and more importantly he played the assigned role of a "good Canadian boy." Not brash, flashy, or chirpy. Only white guys are allowed to do those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Iginla was OK. First of all, he was "light" black (these things matter in the world of subliminal racial responses) and more importantly he played the assigned role of a "good Canadian boy." Not brash, flashy, or chirpy. Only white guys are allowed to do those things. Are you really going down that road? Are you going to next say Grant Fuhr was part of the old boys club because he wore a mask and so they didn't know he was black? C'mon, cucumber. Your second point is the only one you had to make. Iginla acts and plays like a good ol' Canadian boy. Subban doesn't. And as I pointed out, "Good ol' Canadian boy" used to not include French Canadians. Heck, Gretzky was not originally part of the old boys club and neither was Crosby. They had to "earn" it with Cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Its funny people are branding Team Canada brass as racists already and the team hasn't even been announced yet. Even though some of the same people in charge have selected a black player in past years. Light black? Sorry thats a racist comment right there. Ive never heard Iginal refer to himself as anything but black. Drew Doughty is hardly there on reputation. They guy has won gold, a stanley cup, and raises his game when it counts. Simply because he isnt putting up the points like he used to doesnt mean hes playing on reputation. The guy signed a huge contract...probably tries to do more like most guys to live up to it....suffered a concussion....came back to lead his team to a cup, and now is on the ice against the oppositions best every night logging 3 to 4 more minutes a night than Subban does. I think they'll both be there with Weber and Pietrangelo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Doughty isn't playing like a Stanley Cup winner. He's playing quite average. If goalies are judged based on their current performances (nobody seems to be pegging multi-Cup and Gold medal winner Martin Brodeur for the three goalies) so should forwards and defencemen. If Team Canada is supposed to bring the best Canadians who play hockey, Doughty shouldn't make the eight that go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Of course the difference in skin tone between Iginla and Subban makes a difference subliminally. You know how whites generally earn more than blacks? Well, light-skinned blacks generally earn more than dark-skinned blacks. It's much easier for someone of Iginla's skin tone to win general acceptance than someone of Subban's. https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/from-dark-to-light-skin-color.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Chill guys I actually agree with him, and it sounds like you didn't really listen to him. Iginla was OK. First of all, he was "light" black (these things matter in the world of subliminal racial responses) Subliminal racism is him point. I'm guilty of it in a stupid kind of way, I've realized I can go overboard freindly with other cultures just to ensure they know I'm NOT racist, which is in itself treating someone different. But yes, cucumber I agree, if subban was white he would not be thought of as much as this bad dressing room trouble guy by the media or anyone, he would be gold in the dressing room because of his character. It's not blatant "He can't be on the team cause he's black." (For that matter I think he will make the team) it's that racism is unconsciously there on a lower level. Just picking up for cucumber because I think what he's sayin has truth to it, even if us here would rather think we live in a world without stereotypes, sorry we do. I still think he'll make the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 ITs comparing apples and oranges but Doughtys numbers are a whole lot better than Brodeurs. And Brodeur has played half the games in normally would as hes being outplayed by Schneider. Doughty isnt being outplayed by any other LA King. Doughty is 9th in the league in minutes played and is playing more than 3 mins more than any other Kings dmen, all while LA is playing very well over the past 2 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Iginla was arguably the best powerforward at the time in the league during a few of those olympics and he made the team. Colour had nothing to do with any of it. Subban is arguably one of the best defensemen in the league right now. His colour wont have anything to do with him making the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Iginla was arguably the best powerforward at the time in the league during a few of those olympics and he made the team. Colour had nothing to do with any of it. Subban is arguably one of the best defensemen in the league right now. His colour wont have anything to do with him making the team. Many here thought Subban wouldn't get the Norris for "reasons" and he did. The same is now coming up about the Olympics. Subban has already represented Canada twice, in World Juniors and IIHF. He'll likely do it again but I'd prefer him not to face Emelin on Olympic ice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Many here thought Subban wouldn't get the Norris for "reasons" and he did. The same is now coming up about the Olympics. Subban has already represented Canada twice, in World Juniors and IIHF. He'll likely do it again but I'd prefer him not to face Emelin on Olympic ice Those are good points. I'm sure he will crack the squad. Has there ever been a Noris winner the year prior to an Olympic year, that hasn't made their Olympic team? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 kaos makes good points but unfortunately there's one guy there riding on a reputation instead of being better than PK Subban. That man is Drew Doughty. Weber and Pietrangelo belong there just as much as Subban. Doughty? Not in the last season and a half. I think Drew Doughty is the most overrated player in hockey. The reason I don't mention it, is when people say "Drew Doughty" they slightly drag out the "Dreeeew" like they're talking about Lou Reed or Muddy Waters. He's a half a point player with good defense. Just like people used to talk about Jay Bouwmeester 10 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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