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When does Therrien get fired?


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I don't have a problem with Julien using his tools. If there's an issue with his coaching (that can be better explained by Bruins fans in case you want me to find quotes from them as to why they can't stand him being their coach for 5+ years) it's the way he always tried to act like his team was the victim of everything. Which is the World vs. Boston mentality, but if that's his toolbox, what's he gonna do in Montreal? The same? Doesn't really work here when refs think we're a team of divers and never make calls when someone hooks or trips Gallagher in front of the net.

What are the complaints you're mentioning besides the stereotypical "doesn't play prospects/sits on leads/juggles the lines/is too defensive"? A lot of the Bruins fans I know are worried that he'll be fired with no better replacement on the horizon.

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It's funny...a lot of fans want Therrien fired. But then when you start mentioning specific replacement options, they crap all over those options. No to Crawford, no to Julien. (Many are receptive to AV, but even he gets this 'we don't want retreads' argument). The coaches that a critical mass of fans seem most positive about are the ones that have the thinnest track records, i.e., Carbo and Boucher. I think there's an obvious reason for that: such coaches are close to being blank slates, so we can project whatever hopes and fantasies they want onto those guys, whereas the Juliens of the world have a clear, well-defined track record showing flaws as well as strengths.

In fact, if we hire Carbo or Boucher and they turn out to be as good as Crawford or Julien, that would be quite fortunate for us, since nothing in their c.v.s suggests they are on the same level as those guys.

It just goes to show that MT is what I've always maintained him to be, i.e., part of a large mass of competent NHL coaches. Crawford and Julien are also part of that general pool. And it goes to show, further, that a lot of the 'FIRE MT' argument has not been based on a realistic sense of how we might replace him, but rather by wishful thinking - i.e., dreams of an imaginary coach who will come in, be awesome with young players, give us exciting hockey, be impeccable defensively, have a killer power-play, make all the right lineup and player usage decisions all the time, etc., etc., etc..

I too want MT fired. But I've always recognized that he will not be replaced by Super Coach, but rather by another solid, yet flawed, NHL coach. Like it or not.

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It's funny...a lot of fans want Therrien fired. But then when you start mentioning specific replacement options, they crap all over those options. No to Crawford, no to Julien. (Many are receptive to AV, but even he gets this 'we don't want retreads' argument). The coaches that a critical mass of fans seem most positive about are the ones that have the thinnest track records, i.e., Carbo and Boucher. I think there's an obvious reason for that: such coaches are close to being blank slates, so we can project whatever hopes and fantasies they want onto those guys, whereas the Juliens of the world have a clear, well-defined track record showing flaws as well as strengths.

In fact, if we hire Carbo or Boucher and they turn out to be as good as Crawford or Julien, that would be quite fortunate for us, since nothing in their c.v.s suggests they are on the same level as those guys.

It just goes to show that MT is what I've always maintained him to be, i.e., part of a large mass of competent NHL coaches. Crawford and Julien are also part of that general pool. And it goes to show, further, that a lot of the 'FIRE MT' argument has not been based on a realistic sense of how we might replace him, but rather by wishful thinking - i.e., dreams of an imaginary coach who will come in, be awesome with young players, give us exciting hockey, be impeccable defensively, have a killer power-play, make all the right lineup and player usage decisions all the time, etc., etc., etc..

I too want MT fired. But I've always recognized that he will not be replaced by Super Coach, but rather by another solid, yet flawed, NHL coach. Like it or not.

I appreciate what you say CC and I have wanted him to be gone for a while and for what I consider good reason. I would take the following over Le Genius, Crawford, Av, Carbo, I think Julien is funny looking but I have to admit he is a better coach than Le Genius. Who else might be available I don't know, that is the GM's job maybe he has an ace up his sleeve we don't know about. Maybe he can find someone I never heard of (that would not be hard) I don't follow coaches. It is a shame that we limit our selves. You know what I am talking about no need to re-hash the elephant in the room. Every coach has to have his first job in the NHL, most learn from it. Maybe Boucher and Carbo learned from it. We know that Le Genius learned from his first stint. At least as far as keeping his cool, I have admired that in him, but he still has to get the digs in. Oh and if it is a choice of PK or Le Genius get that fat pkrhead out of here.

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I appreciate what you say CC and I have wanted him to be gone for a while and for what I consider good reason. I would take the following over Le Genius, Crawford, Av, Carbo, I think Julien is funny looking but I have to admit he is a better coach than Le Genius. Who else might be available I don't know, that is the GM's job maybe he has an ace up his sleeve we don't know about. Maybe he can find someone I never heard of (that would not be hard) I don't follow coaches. It is a shame that we limit our selves. You know what I am talking about no need to re-hash the elephant in the room. Every coach has to have his first job in the NHL, most learn from it. Maybe Boucher and Carbo learned from it. We know that Le Genius learned from his first stint. At least as far as keeping his cool, I have admired that in him, but he still has to get the digs in. Oh and if it is a choice of PK or Le Genius get that fat pkrhead out of here.

I couldn't agree more with the last line. If the Habs trade Subban - especially to accommodate some disposable coach - the return had better be killer, or I will seriously reconsider my fandom. I went through that with Roy. Never again.

As for the rest of it, yes, the 'affirmative action' policy is too bad, but it's a fact of life. There is no point in saying FIRE MT and then complaining about the inadequacy of all known bilingual replacements (and I'm not accusing you of doing this, habs rule). Anyone declaiming the need to throw Therrien in the street needs to be clear about which bilingual replacement they want to see in his place. Otherwise it's just pointless wind.

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We have to give Therrien some credit though don't we?

Can we really place the blame on him for not making the correct adjustments in game, player usage, and Da system, when in reality this season could not have been saved by some God like being(who is a Habs fan)?

There isn't one of us who can't think back to the first of the season, and remember thinking "this may be our year". Price with 2 shutouts in 12 games, on MVP pace again, team scoring like crazy, and who can forget how we dominated the Rangers on that fateful night Price went down for good... you have to admit, Therrien was the coach when we were on that role.

Since...

Abysmal goaltending, Gallagher out for long periods, Petry playing injured the entire year, then not at all for most of it, Patch seemed slower, and less physical maybe playing hurt as well a good part of the season, PK playing injured, then out, and the string of minor league defensemen has been staggering. All the while, Coach Mike had not much help(if any) from Bergevin?

If I am Bergevin, I couldn't in good faith fire MT. Knowing that my management philosophy, could not overcome this seasons alignment of stars to my team's demise in the standings, I would not fire the guy that was doing a great job in moving this team toward the elite status, before the wheels fell off(Price being all 4 wheels) the best team in the league for about 2 months.

Knowing that I as GM could not get enough players that would plug the catastrophic hole in our hull, unless mortgaging the future of not just the team, but the team's future, which would probably make short tenure as GM for myself, I could not look my friend in the eye and tell him his head will be the one that rolls.

As Bergevin stated when he addressed the media frenzy over "when does Therrien get fired" fantasy, "We will get through this as a team, together" this is as much or more on him and a series of unfortunate circumstances, than it is on old Coach Mikey... and you have to admit that is a great team building thing to say, especially since this team isn't far away from the best damn "one year rebuild ever"

What coach could have possibly taken this team's 2015/16 lineup any further than this one? I surely don't know... and neither do you guys.

Unless of course Habs Rule would accept the coaching position? ;)

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It's funny...a lot of fans want Therrien fired. But then when you start mentioning specific replacement options, they crap all over those options. No to Crawford, no to Julien. (Many are receptive to AV, but even he gets this 'we don't want retreads' argument). The coaches that a critical mass of fans seem most positive about are the ones that have the thinnest track records, i.e., Carbo and Boucher. I think there's an obvious reason for that: such coaches are close to being blank slates, so we can project whatever hopes and fantasies they want onto those guys, whereas the Juliens of the world have a clear, well-defined track record showing flaws as well as strengths.

In fact, if we hire Carbo or Boucher and they turn out to be as good as Crawford or Julien, that would be quite fortunate for us, since nothing in their c.v.s suggests they are on the same level as those guys.

It just goes to show that MT is what I've always maintained him to be, i.e., part of a large mass of competent NHL coaches. Crawford and Julien are also part of that general pool. And it goes to show, further, that a lot of the 'FIRE MT' argument has not been based on a realistic sense of how we might replace him, but rather by wishful thinking - i.e., dreams of an imaginary coach who will come in, be awesome with young players, give us exciting hockey, be impeccable defensively, have a killer power-play, make all the right lineup and player usage decisions all the time, etc., etc., etc..

I too want MT fired. But I've always recognized that he will not be replaced by Super Coach, but rather by another solid, yet flawed, NHL coach. Like it or not.

I find it a hoot that we still use the argument that we can't replace "so and so" because we can't envision a suitable replacement. Rosters and coaches are turned over all the time, so the operative words are we can't envision. Everyone is replaceable.

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The best Habs coach in the past 30 years never won a Cup with us and was replaced by a guy who couldn't read that did win a Cup with us.

I'm not looking for perfection. I'm looking for the right fit. I want experience without being too old school, knows how to coach youngsters and veterans and isn't afraid to confront his team or the media. That's Marc Crawford unless someone like Alain Vigneault becomes available. It's also Claude Julien but I don't care for him.

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I find it a hoot that we still use the argument that we can't replace "so and so" because we can't envision a suitable replacement. Rosters and coaches are turned over all the time, so the operative words are we can't envision. Everyone is replaceable.

I didn't say Therrien is irreplaceable. I want him gone. However, when the MT haters begin to express antagonism to nearly every obvious candidate to replace MT, then you really have to wonder about whether their argument is rooted in any sort of realistic appraisal whatsoever. This really supports my longstanding claim that a good percentage of the haters will start hating on MT's replacement in short order; and that's because they are comparing flesh and blood human beings to some idealized conception of a Super Coach. (This, as I suggest above, is why many of them are so supportive of Boucher and Carbo - because those guys are blank slates onto which they can project their coaching fantasies).

KoRP makes some great points in his post above. :thumbs_up: I can see the case for keeping Therrien, but I just think that after four years his message has to be getting stale, and that a new perspective would do a lot of players a lot of good, as well as helping psychologically to turn the page on a disastrous season, while also sending the signal that suckage has consequences ('no excuses'). I also think MT's inability to fix the PP in any way, shape, or form, over a period of years, should be unacceptable to an organization demanding excellence. Again, though, KoRP definitely gives us a lot to think about. Great post.

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NO EXCUSES. Does that apply to the coach or just the stick boy?

Just to PK.
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Oh so it applies to whoever Le Genius decides is in the dog house today, I got it. But but shouldn't if apply to the coach? I mean Price got injured, we can't win. Isn't that an excuse? hmmm makes you wonder.

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I couldn't agree more with the last line. If the Habs trade Subban - especially to accommodate some disposable coach - the return had better be killer, or I will seriously reconsider my fandom. I went through that with Roy. Never again.

I feel the same way...if Subban is traded, and the deal is not lopsided in the Habs' favour, I am likely done with them.

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I think they are going to be hard pressed to trade him due to the pressure from the sponsors, fans, and business owners. It could cost Geoff Molson a lot of money. They want to be very careful here. If he isn't the most popular player in Montreal in years, I would be very surprised. Missing the playoffs has already cost him millions, now you want to trade PK? Could be a very expensive lesson in owning a hockey club. Firing Le Genius would cost a lot less money.

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Well it looks like we are stuck with another year of Le Genius.....I wonder if Guy Boucher would come on as an assistant...

before this vote of confidence I was actually daydreaming about hiring Crawford and Boucher as a coaching tandem. Crawford getting the head and Boucher the ass...

but really, it wasn't that kind of dream, get your head out of the gutter ;)

seriously I thought it would be a great Tandem

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Well it looks like we are stuck with another year of Le Genius.....I wonder if Guy Boucher would come on as an assistant...

before this vote of confidence I was actually daydreaming about hiring Crawford and Boucher as a coaching tandem. Crawford getting the head and Boucher the ass...

but really, it wasn't that kind of dream, get your head out of the gutter ;)

seriously I thought it would be a great Tandem

I think some team will scoop Guy up.

Boucher is a talented coach who obviously made some mistakes. Some team will make a gamble on him, and profit or lose.

Did anybody think Therrien would last five seasons?

Imagine if Crawford, Guy Boucher, and Claude are all hired...and the Habs start the year 3-4-3?

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Well it looks like we are stuck with another year of Le Genius.....I wonder if Guy Boucher would come on as an assistant...

Someone from RDS reported this today as a possibility (presumably to be the one that helps with the PP and becomes the in-house replacement option).

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Someone from RDS reported this today as a possibility (presumably to be the one that helps with the PP and becomes the in-house replacement option).

Crawford or Carboneau for the P/P better options , just my opinion.

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From a PR point of view, bringing any one of the three on board would certainly help.

I think there needs to be an extra layer between Therrien and the players, and I think anyone of those guys could do it or maybe Muller?

Also there needs to be someone with clout on the staff to talk to Therrien when he runs out of ideas, someone to say "hey Mike it looks like the other teams in the league have figured out the system, maybe we should tweek it a bit?"

Therrien is such a hard ass that he wouldn't listen unless the other guy was established (Crawford), or smart enough to have that conversation in private to save face(Boucher).

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I didn't say Therrien is irreplaceable. I want him gone. However, when the MT haters begin to express antagonism to nearly every obvious candidate to replace MT, then you really have to wonder about whether their argument is rooted in any sort of realistic appraisal whatsoever. This really supports my longstanding claim that a good percentage of the haters will start hating on MT's replacement in short order; and that's because they are comparing flesh and blood human beings to some idealized conception of a Super Coach. (This, as I suggest above, is why many of them are so supportive of Boucher and Carbo - because those guys are blank slates onto which they can project their coaching fantasies).

KoRP makes some great points in his post above. :thumbs_up: I can see the case for keeping Therrien, but I just think that after four years his message has to be getting stale, and that a new perspective would do a lot of players a lot of good, as well as helping psychologically to turn the page on a disastrous season, while also sending the signal that suckage has consequences ('no excuses'). I also think MT's inability to fix the PP in any way, shape, or form, over a period of years, should be unacceptable to an organization demanding excellence. Again, though, KoRP definitely gives us a lot to think about. Great post.

I am just making a general argument about replacing anybody. I believe you started your premise with there is no suitable replacement for Therrien, something along that line. I remember on this very same medium someone arguing that we couldn't replace Gomez because there was not a suitable center available.

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I am just making a general argument about replacing anybody. I believe you started your premise with there is no suitable replacement for Therrien, something along that line. I remember on this very same medium someone arguing that we couldn't replace Gomez because there was not a suitable center available.

My premise is not at all that there is no replacement for Therrien. (Crawford leaps to mind). What I was saying is that the minute you start to name possible replacements, a surprising percentage of fans pop up in vehement opposition to your suggestion. Julien is terrible, we're told. Crawford is a failure, we're told. Even Vigneault is attacked as a 'retread.' Only coaches with such a minimal track-record that they are basically blank slates - Carbo and Boucher - seem to be widely supported as candidates. And I argued that this shows how irrational a lot of the 'fire Therrien' arguments are, because they're not about replacing Therrien with a human being, but rather by an abstract Ideal Coach that doesn't exist. (But do I think we should fire Therrien? Yes. The difference is that I recognize that his replacement will also be flawed and is unlikely to represent some massive leap forward in terms of coaching).

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Carbo would need to dust off his coaching duds, which have been in his closet since his buddy Gainey fired his ass years ago.

But, why do we still have this thread, we know he wont be fired for at least anther 8 months. So do we need to rehash all of the 2 options to replace him in 2020, over and over?

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Ya know there was a poll (they did a study) on HIO and 82% of voters said he should be fired maybe that is why this tired old thread keeps going. I wonder how many comments/views it will have in 2020? :)

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Guest Stogey24

There's a comments section on one of the sportsnet write ups. I think there were 30 comments and every single one was Habs fans wanting Therrien gone. Job security with Canadien's management is bar none though I guess.

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