When does Therrien get fired?

[Commandant]

When you listen to the fans, you'll find you soon start sitting with them - sam pollock

Now personally I think Therrien should go. But the way the fans feel about him, that has 0 effect on my opinion of the situation.

[habs rule]

When you listen to the fans, you'll find you soon start sitting with them - sam pollock

Now personally I think Therrien should go. But the way the fans feel about him, that has 0 effect on my opinion of the situation.

Yeah I know I just like to bug Don.

[Guest Stogey24]

I know too. Just saying the general consensus is the guy shouldn't be back. Fans are upset.

[KoRP]

Sometimes assistant coaches make a world of difference, thinking about Kirk Muller a few seasons back, and more recently Gerard Gallant, I don't see that type of guy behind Montreal's bench these days.

I guess most fans want Therrien gone, but I have to say that I kind of like the idea of keeping management stable, and as IllWill said earlier in the thread, I am interested in what this team can do if healthy, because after all, you would have to be a plain hater to blame Therrien alone for this year.

I know, I know, " he never adjusted" "he misused players", "he stifled development", "he mixed his lines too much" "he has an ego" WTF ever guys, just face it, he had no NHL depth to overcome the slide, twist it anyway you like but without Price, and without NHL level talent over half the roster, Scotty Bowman couldn't have done better.

Talk about a dead horse. Blame the coach, and ignore the injuries, and the fact that there were more AHL players in the lineup than NHL'ers, brilliant, yep brilliant...

[DON]

Of course I know vast majority want him fired and why. If team was relatively healthy, had solid roster and underachieved...then I would be right with you.

[sbhatt]

Scratch Claude Julien off the possible replacements list were MT to be fired in the near future....Bruins have stated that he will be back next season.

[sbhatt]

Sometimes assistant coaches make a world of difference, thinking about Kirk Muller a few seasons back, and more recently Gerard Gallant, I don't see that type of guy behind Montreal's bench these days.

I guess most fans want Therrien gone, but I have to say that I kind of like the idea of keeping management stable, and as IllWill said earlier in the thread, I am interested in what this team can do if healthy, because after all, you would have to be a plain hater to blame Therrien alone for this year.

I know, I know, " he never adjusted" "he misused players", "he stifled development", "he mixed his lines too much" "he has an ego" WTF ever guys, just face it, he had no NHL depth to overcome the slide, twist it anyway you like but without Price, and without NHL level talent over half the roster, Scotty Bowman couldn't have done better.

Talk about a dead horse. Blame the coach, and ignore the injuries, and the fact that there were more AHL players in the lineup than NHL'ers, brilliant, yep brilliant...

Everything you said is true about the injuries, and having two huge holes in your top 6 forwards is going to stymie any coach. Therrien's mishandling of Subban and Galchenyuk can't be ignored either; having the right assistant coach to bridge the communication gap between MT and players of that nature could solve a lot of problems.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Yeah, sure there were injuries, but a scarecrow behind the bench would have gotten the same result. Next year Carey is going to provide Coach T with a winning record as he stumbles through another year of puzzling players selections, chip and chase tactics and poor special team. To be fair this isn't just Therrien-last year makes me think the entire staff stinks.

[Guest Stogey24]

Sign a top player and have Carey put up a healthy 65 games, while everyone else stays relatively healthy too. It won't matter who's coaching the team, we'll be at the dance either way.

[habs rule]

Carey Price does not design the P/P. Carey Price does not decide on the line ups. Carey Price is the guy who saves Le Genius's ass for all his stupid mistakes. Someone tell me what Le Genius does that is so great. The fact that he has a goalie who is a talent beyond belief does not make him a great coach. He is a scarecrow.

[illWill]

Someone tell me what Le Genius does that is so great.

Michel Therrien was hired by the Habs following a season where they finished dead last in the Eastern Conference. He guided that Habs team all the way from the basement up to second overall in the East and P.K Subban won the Norris trophy playing for him as a 23 year old and Brendan Gallagher was nominated for the Calder. The next season Therrien guided his team all the way to the Eastern Conference finals and arguably a Price injury away from the Cup final or even winning it all. The next season he led the Habs to the second best overall record in the entire NHL before bowing out to the rival Lightning in a tight series in the second round of the playoffs. And then this season he had the Habs off to the best start in their entire franchise history, and were leading the league after 20 games. But then the most valuable player to his team in the world went down with injury and he was left with a rookie goalie and a rotating group of AHL players due to his GM not filling glaring holes in the lineup. He has accumulated the 6th most wins by a coach since he was rehired. But of course none of that matters to those who simply do not like the guy no matter what he does.

[KoRP]

Michel Therrien was hired by the Habs following a season where they finished dead last in the Eastern Conference. He guided that Habs team all the way from the basement up to second overall in the East and P.K Subban won the Norris trophy playing for him as a 23 year old and Brendan Gallagher was nominated for the Calder. The next season Therrien guided his team all the way to the Eastern Conference finals and arguably a Price injury away from the Cup final or even winning it all. The next season he led the Habs to the second best overall record in the entire NHL before bowing out to the rival Lightning in a tight series in the second round of the playoffs. And then this season he had the Habs off to the best start in their entire franchise history, and were leading the league after 20 games. But then the most valuable player to his team in the world went down with injury and he was left with a rookie goalie and a rotating group of AHL players due to his GM not filling glaring holes in the lineup. He has accumulated the 6th most wins by a coach since he was rehired. But of course none of that matters to those who simply do not like the guy no matter what he does.

Great post dude...!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

While I would prefer that MT had been fired, I completely agree that the loathing towards him is over the top. Even some of the standard tropes - like Galchenyuk's minutes relative to Desharnais's - become more understandable when you factor in Galy's broken finger, which limited his use on faceoffs, etc.. The charge that he can't develop young players is blatantly false (at best, he develops them more slowly than we'd like, which is not the same thing). One can legitimately complain about the system, but it's a system that yielded 27 shots against Ottawa in one period and had us outplaying most teams, night after night, until about February. I do agree that the PP thing is a major blemish. Still, Therrien would be replaced by another guy that all the haters would rail endlessly against, so the whole thing is a bit nuts.

[habs rule]

Michel Therrien was hired by the Habs following a season where they finished dead last in the Eastern Conference. He guided that Habs team all the way from the basement up to second overall in the East and P.K Subban won the Norris trophy playing for him as a 23 year old and Brendan Gallagher was nominated for the Calder. The next season Therrien guided his team all the way to the Eastern Conference finals and arguably a Price injury away from the Cup final or even winning it all. The next season he led the Habs to the second best overall record in the entire NHL before bowing out to the rival Lightning in a tight series in the second round of the playoffs. And then this season he had the Habs off to the best start in their entire franchise history, and were leading the league after 20 games. But then the most valuable player to his team in the world went down with injury and he was left with a rookie goalie and a rotating group of AHL players due to his GM not filling glaring holes in the lineup. He has accumulated the 6th most wins by a coach since he was rehired. But of course none of that matters to those who simply do not like the guy no matter what he does.

Yupp

[habs rule]

While I would prefer that MT had been fired, I completely agree that the loathing towards him is over the top. Even some of the standard tropes - like Galchenyuk's minutes relative to Desharnais's - become more understandable when you factor in Galy's broken finger, which limited his use on faceoffs, etc.. The charge that he can't develop young players is blatantly false (at best, he develops them more slowly than we'd like, which is not the same thing). One can legitimately complain about the system, but it's a system that yielded 27 shots against Ottawa in one period and had us outplaying most teams, night after night, until about February. I do agree that the PP thing is a major blemish. Still, Therrien would be replaced by another guy that all the haters would rail endlessly against, so the whole thing is a bit nuts.

As you well know and we have discussed many times, it is not just the P/P that doesn't work. He has a team that he should providing a process that works, he ignores the talent that he has and enforces a system that does not work for this team. If Price is injured we have a bad team, period, if Price is healthy we have a low scoring offence challenged team that can squeak out a win. And you guys call this good coaching? I could stand behind the bench and do nothing and get the same results. The stats that everyone quotes about his record may as well say Carey was healthy. Yes your goalie is an integral part of the team, but really should he be the difference between finishing 1st in the east or not making the playoffs. You see nothing wrong with that? I do. I do not think this team will ever win a cup with Le Genius coaching it. I will change my opinion 3 days after we win the cup and he is coaching. I have now joined the ranks of the haters, I cannot for the life of me figure out why he is still coaching this team. According to your theory it is ok to lose as long as we come close. Well my theory is a little different, we have to win. Period. No more forking excuses. Maybe they should post that in the dressing room or something.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I'm done with the fire Therrien thing. Fine, we will see how he does with a fresh season. But why does J.J. and Dan keep their jobs? Why is that okay? Why is nobody holding them to the fire? Why aren't we as an organization considering better options behind the bench to help Michel and the Habs? That's a bigger question for me. No different to Bruins fans wondering why Jarvis is surviving with Julien.

Michel deserves rope? Okay. Not his assistants. You can't tell me there's nobody out there who could be better qualified, smarter, could help the team more, etc. Keeping those two tells me this is less about Michel and more about Bergevin not wanting to make anyone unhappy. The only guy we let go was a part timer new to the team. The most expendable possible.

That bothers me so much more than Therrien still being behind the bench.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

As you well know and we have discussed many times, it is not just the P/P that doesn't work. He has a team that he should providing a process that works, he ignores the talent that he has and enforces a system that does not work for this team. If Price is injured we have a bad team, period, if Price is healthy we have a low scoring offence challenged team that can squeak out a win. And you guys call this good coaching? I could stand behind the bench and do nothing and get the same results. The stats that everyone quotes about his record may as well say Carey was healthy. Yes your goalie is an integral part of the team, but really should he be the difference between finishing 1st in the east or not making the playoffs. You see nothing wrong with that? I do. I do not think this team will ever win a cup with Le Genius coaching it. I will change my opinion 3 days after we win the cup and he is coaching. I have now joined the ranks of the haters, I cannot for the life of me figure out why he is still coaching this team. According to your theory it is ok to lose as long as we come close. Well my theory is a little different, we have to win. Period. No more forking excuses. Maybe they should post that in the dressing room or something.

I don't know whether his system is ill-suited to the players - I'm not enough of a 'systems' guy to discern that in any deep way. What I can say is this: everyone agrees we are two players short of a top-6. And while we do have a legitimate top-3, everyone agrees that the team does not have a single offensive superstar. Nor is our bottom-6 unusually offensively proficient. What all of this points to is a team that does NOT have the offensive tools to play run-and-gun, high-scoring hockey. We have a team built from the back end. So blaming Therrien because such a team 'squeaks out wins' seems confused to me.

Of course, we can always cling to the religious idea that guys like Eller will somehow explode once MT's supposed shackles come off. But that's just circular reasoning. All the rational evidence we possess suggests that this team is not built to score a lot.

Machine's point about assistant coaches is interesting. We first noticed this last season, when the assistant coach responsible for the atrocious power play was not fired, but rather shunted into other duties. That was ridiculous, and it remains ridiculous. If guys are transparently failing, they should have no place in an organization that aspires to a championship. Factoring in Sylvain Lefebvre's apparent untouchability, the whole management group does seem to have a culture of protecting its own, rather than insisting on excellence. I think that's a valid criticism.

[habs rule]

I don't know whether his system is ill-suited to the players - I'm not enough of a 'systems' guy to discern that in any deep way. What I can say is this: everyone agrees we are two players short of a top-6. And while we do have a legitimate top-3, everyone agrees that the team does not have a single offensive superstar. Nor is our bottom-6 unusually offensively proficient. What all of this points to is a team that does NOT have the offensive tools to play run-and-gun, high-scoring hockey. We have a team built from the back end. So blaming Therrien because such a team 'squeaks out wins' seems confused to me.

Of course, we can always cling to the religious idea that guys like Eller will somehow explode once MT's supposed shackles come off. But that's just circular reasoning. All the rational evidence we possess suggests that this team is not built to score a lot.

Machine's point about assistant coaches is interesting. We first noticed this last season, when the assistant coach responsible for the atrocious power play was not fired, but rather shunted into other duties. That was ridiculous, and it remains ridiculous. If guys are transparently failing, they should have no place in an organization that aspires to a championship. Factoring in Sylvain Lefebvre's apparent untouchability, the whole management group does seem to have a culture of protecting its own, rather than insisting on excellence. I think that's a valid criticism.

I guess where we disagree is you believe this team is achieving it's potential, where I do not. I think that if we had better coaching and a better system the players would respond better. If you believe this is a dump and chase team well again we disagree. We do have some very talented players that are simply not being used to exploit their individual talents. Some of the coaching decisions and they have been articulated ad nauseam, simply show that Le Genius is lost. He can teach defence, he cannot come up with an offensive scheme. He never has and he never will. We need a new coach, and some new assistants. This plan did not work. I have no doubt that if Carey is healthy next year that this team will be better than this year and you will all say see I told you so. Will we win a cup? No forking way. He couldn't win a cup with Sid the Kid and he won't with this group.

[illWill]

I don't know whether his system is ill-suited to the players - I'm not enough of a 'systems' guy to discern that in any deep way. What I can say is this: everyone agrees we are two players short of a top-6. And while we do have a legitimate top-3, everyone agrees that the team does not have a single offensive superstar. Nor is our bottom-6 unusually offensively proficient. What all of this points to is a team that does NOT have the offensive tools to play run-and-gun, high-scoring hockey. We have a team built from the back end. So blaming Therrien because such a team 'squeaks out wins' seems confused to me.

This x 1000000

Who wants to see Paul Byron's silky mitts dangling around everyone? Dale Weise going on a rush end to end? Desharnais net hanging at the other blue line? Cause they all played in the top 6 this year. The team's identity is defense first, then a counter attack with lots of speed. You can't just say I want them to do this and that when that's not what they are. They play to their strengths, and their biggest strength is having the best goalie in the world. When he gets injured the team will suffer, no adjustments can make up for that. It's like having Tom Brady out for the season and then getting mad at Belichick for losing. Well, the team is built around Brady, the passing game won't be as good and the running game isn't their strength.

[hab29RETIRED]

Unlike Gainey who fired one of his best friendS, I don't think MB has the stones to fire the croonies he grew up with. Otherwise JJ and Lefevre would not have jobs.

I'm done with the fire Therrien thing. Fine, we will see how he does with a fresh season. But why does J.J. and Dan keep their jobs? Why is that okay? Why is nobody holding them to the fire? Why aren't we as an organization considering better options behind the bench to help Michel and the Habs? That's a bigger question for me. No different to Bruins fans wondering why Jarvis is surviving with Julien.

Michel deserves rope? Okay. Not his assistants. You can't tell me there's nobody out there who could be better qualified, smarter, could help the team more, etc. Keeping those two tells me this is less about Michel and more about Bergevin not wanting to make anyone unhappy. The only guy we let go was a part timer new to the team. The most expendable possible.

That bothers me so much more than Therrien still being behind the bench.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

A single offensive superstar? We have four: Subban (top five D scorer), Pacioretty (top five LW goal scorer, top 10 LW scorer), Galchenyuk (top 10 C goal scorer) and Gallagher (top 10 RW points per game scorer)

We know those four are top 10 in their positions. We know Plekanec can be a top six guy. After that it all falls apart.

This team has relied on Pacioretty and Subban almost as much as Price. If Patches isn't nearing 40 goals people want him traded. If Subban isn't scoring 10+ himself they want his head. The loss of Gallagher with Galchenyuk on his off position was just as influential in the downfall as losing Price was because the scoring pressure fell to nobody to replace. A big part of that? Bergevin getting nobody to fill the #2RW spot except Weise (who also got hurt and was barely a #2), Semin (who flamed out already), Kassian (who never played a game) and DSP (who Therrien never had any confidence in). The best we had to go with after that was Carr, Eller, Desharnais and Andrighetto to somehow pick up the slack and fill in not just a #2RW hole but a #1RW hole. And the missing scoring punch. The whole league knew they could break us on the right side and did. Go heavy defensively on Pacioretty and forecheck their right side.

Some of this falls on bad luck with injuries and Bergevin for being a lazy GM last summer (and not trading for a RW when the Semin experiment had failed). But if Therrien kept Galchenyuk at centre and had more confidence in DSP we may have been at least able to ice two lines to temporarily cauterize the wound. Instead we put Desharnais and Eller in the top six with Chuck playing RW and wondered why only Carr was scoring goals.

Every level of responsibility failed and the answer from the club right now is, "oops Injuries! Our bad." I don't want to hear about free agents. I don't want to just see Therrien be scapegoated. I want to see self reflection and then action through that self reflection. Instead we just saw Bergevin make excuses for everyone except the players. It was shocking.

At the very least I wanted Bergevin to say no decisions will be made until extensive investigation is made on the state of the team. We instead got a double down on management being found innocent of a failure season because of injuries.

[habs rule]

A single offensive superstar? We have four: Subban (top five D scorer), Pacioretty (top five LW goal scorer, top 10 LW scorer), Galchenyuk (top 10 C goal scorer) and Gallagher (top 10 RW points per game scorer)

We know those four are top 10 in their positions. We know Plekanec can be a top six guy. After that it all falls apart.

This team has relied on Pacioretty and Subban almost as much as Price. If Patches isn't nearing 40 goals people want him traded. If Subban isn't scoring 10+ himself they want his head. The loss of Gallagher with Galchenyuk on his off position was just as influential in the downfall as losing Price was because the scoring pressure fell to nobody to replace. A big part of that? Bergevin getting nobody to fill the #2RW spot except Weise (who also got hurt and was barely a #2), Semin (who flamed out already), Kassian (who never played a game) and DSP (who Therrien never had any confidence in). The best we had to go with after that was Carr, Eller, Desharnais and Andrighetto to somehow pick up the slack and fill in not just a #2RW hole but a #1RW hole. And the missing scoring punch. The whole league knew they could break us on the right side and did. Go heavy defensively on Pacioretty and forecheck their right side.

Some of this falls on bad luck with injuries and Bergevin for being a lazy GM last summer (and not trading for a RW when the Semin experiment had failed). But if Therrien kept Galchenyuk at centre and had more confidence in DSP we may have been at least able to ice two lines to temporarily cauterize the wound. Instead we put Desharnais and Eller in the top six with Chuck playing RW and wondered why only Carr was scoring goals.

Every level of responsibility failed and the answer from the club right now is, "oops Injuries! Our bad." I don't want to hear about free agents. I don't want to just see Therrien be scapegoated. I want to see self reflection and then action through that self reflection. Instead we just saw Bergevin make excuses for everyone except the players. It was shocking.

At the very least I wanted Bergevin to say no decisions will be made until extensive investigation is made on the state of the team. We instead got a double down on management being found innocent of a failure season because of injuries.

good post MOLG.

[BCHabnut]

A single offensive superstar? We have four: Subban (top five D scorer), Pacioretty (top five LW goal scorer, top 10 LW scorer), Galchenyuk (top 10 C goal scorer) and Gallagher (top 10 RW points per game scorer)

That's a bit of a stretch on the stats.

Pacioretty 25th, Chucky 62nd, Plek 68th, Subban 90th, Markov 130th in league scoring. That's your top 5 on the team. I wouldn't call that a group of superstars. To me a superstar is a top 20 player in the league. Period. For me Subban and Price are superstars. Pacioretty is elite. Gallagher is a legitimate 1st liner but barely elite, and chucky is a fringe elite. Hardly blows your hair back if you ask me. It's not like MT had the 1977 Canadiens and couldn't win. He had a strong team with a few issues and they outplayed their opponent consistently until February. They couldn't finish because they were short top 6 players. They couldn't stop the puck because their goalies sucked. Galy and Petry were hurt for much of the season. I would have preferred a better coach this year but I understand why MB made the choice to give him another shot. I'm surprised the "when does MB get fired" thread isn't more popular. That's what I want to see if he doesn't balance the team.

[kickass528]

illWill You forgot about there great 3 year run with no powerplay good job MT even better system

Edited April 17, 2016 by kickass528

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

That's a bit of a stretch on the stats.

Pacioretty 25th, Chucky 62nd, Plek 68th, Subban 90th, Markov 130th in league scoring. That's your top 5 on the team. I wouldn't call that a group of superstars. To me a superstar is a top 20 player in the league. Period. For me Subban and Price are superstars. Pacioretty is elite. Gallagher is a legitimate 1st liner but barely elite, and chucky is a fringe elite. Hardly blows your hair back if you ask me. It's not like MT had the 1977 Canadiens and couldn't win. He had a strong team with a few issues and they outplayed their opponent consistently until February. They couldn't finish because they were short top 6 players. They couldn't stop the puck because their goalies sucked. Galy and Petry were hurt for much of the season. I would have preferred a better coach this year but I understand why MB made the choice to give him another shot. I'm surprised the "when does MB get fired" thread isn't more popular. That's what I want to see if he doesn't balance the team.

I think the "fire MB" thread is still premature. But I agree with everything else you say in this post. Must be that fresh coastal BC air!