When does Therrien get fired?

[hab29RETIRED]

After the Florida loss MT said the team had no structure. That is a coaching issue. I don't care whether there wewr a lot of young players up from the minors. It's the coaches job to work with what he has. For mr. No excuse to say the team has no structure is an indictment of his own incompetence.

It's also an indictment that once pateryn was actually played he played better than Gilbert or emelin have all year. In this case there was no other choice to play him and MT couldn't bench him. It's one thing not to play young players or bench them for mistakes when you have good dependable veterans. That wasn't the case this year. If DD never went down, MT would still be stubborn his belief that galchenyuk and pacioretty have no chemistry.

You really need to read my posts. in full. Yes there are a lot of reasons to fire him. The Weaver Boullion thing is playing vets who were not that good ahead of young guys who need to play. He still does it today. DDis just hurt that is all or he would be right in there. If you can show me how his system is working so good, I will back off, but I have been saying since he got here that his systems do not work. If that is a weak statement, I think you need to research some other teams and see what happens when they have systems that work. If a coach can't make his system work what use is he? It is all he has.

Sorry your uncle has to go.

[habs rule]

After the Florida loss MT said the team had no structure. That is a coaching issue. I don't care whether there wewr a lot of young players up from the minors. It's the coaches job to work with what he has. For mr. No excuse to say the team has no structure is an indictment of his own incompetence.

It's also an indictment that once pateryn was actually played he played better than Gilbert or emelin have all year. In this case there was no other choice to play him and MT couldn't bench him. It's one thing not to play young players or bench them for mistakes when you have good dependable veterans. That wasn't the case this year. If DD never went down, MT would still be stubborn his belief that galchenyuk and pacioretty have no chemistry.

And I agree with that.

[Guest Stogey24]

Mike Weaver just did an interview on TSN 690. He said he had issues with Therrien in his final year with the Habs and that old school coaching(yelling and screaming) isn't the way to get players to respond to you. He's not the only player to come out after being moved to say coaching was an issue.

[KoRP]

Weaver? I dunno if what he thinks matters a lot does it?

I wonder what most of the players think really in terms of MT getting fired or not?

Do the players have any voice in coaching changes?

Do you guys think the Habs players have had enough of Therrien?

The team is still over .500, even with no Price, and an injury list that has had a lot of injury time from the top 4 D missing all year, plus the fact that Bergevin didn't get any real help for the top 6 forward group.

Is it possible that Bergevin is really considering keeping MT, and seeing what he can give him for help scoring?

Or would it be best going into the draft and UFA period, with a new coach to maybe lure a UFA, or at least not scare any away?

Those are my questions, and the MT spewed hate for the sake of hate and change isn't answering any of them... most of it is unjustified anyway, Subban, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Beaulieu, Carr, and Pateryn all seem to have developed pretty good under MT, so I can't fully buy into the whole "he stifles young players" thing, that simply isn't true.

His record overall is good, and with Price the team is good, but what will Bergevin do?

[illWill]

After the Florida loss MT said the team had no structure. That is a coaching issue. I don't care whether there wewr a lot of young players up from the minors. It's the coaches job to work with what he has. For mr. No excuse to say the team has no structure is an indictment of his own incompetence.

Just because you don't care that there are half of the Ice Caps on the team doesn't make it any easier to get everyone in sync. This lineup is poison at the moment, Scottie Bowman on steroids couldn't do much better.

Mike Weaver just did an interview on TSN 690. He said he had issues with Therrien in his final year with the Habs and that old school coaching(yelling and screaming) isn't the way to get players to respond to you. He's not the only player to come out after being moved to say coaching was an issue.

Different people respond to different approaches. An elite coach is one who knows how to get the most out of each of his players. Therrien is not elite by any means but sounds like Weaver just doesn't like to be yelled at. I know that I play better when someone is pissed at me as opposed to a warm gentle hug of encouragement. There are also examples of players that played for him saying they liked him and he was integral in their development. But that wouldn't fit the theme of this thread I suppose.

[Guest Stogey24]

I truly think a change in coaching is a necessary measure to take after this disaster of a season.

How many games over the last 2-3 years have just been piss poor boring games; where Montreal scores 1-2 goal and is hemmed in their own zone for a good chunk of the period, with price standing on his head.

This year is the hockey God's showing what kind of piss poor system Montreal has been running with under Therrien, without Price.

[habs rule]

I truly think a change in coaching is a necessary measure to take after this disaster of a season.

How many games over the last 2-3 years have just been piss poor boring games; where Montreal scores 1-2 goal and is hemmed in their own zone for a good chunk of the period, with price standing on his head.

This year is the hockey God's showing what kind of piss poor system Montreal has been running with under Therrien, without Price.

That is the point. It is not that Le Genius is hated, it is that losing is hated. Yes there have been injuries of late, but when Price went down we went for the swan song and there weren't a lot of injuries. We were out of the race when the major injuries showed up Petry etc. Price is a huge part of this team, that we can all agree on, but really he should be the difference in winning or not winning the cup. Right now he is the difference between us being in first or last place. That means the rest of the team and the coach cannot cope with his loss. You can't fire the team. Also as I have said the guys are trying their best, they play hard, but the system that they are playing is not suited to this team. Speed and skill do not do well at dump and chase, but it is a hell of a lot safer. This team just can't win that way unless Carey is in nets. Le Genius must go.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Whatever we think of Therrien, I wouldn't pay much heed to Weaver's comments about his 'last year' with us. He was relegated to Black Ace status for nearly all of that season, if memory serves; no kidding that he wasn't happy and has 'issues' with the coach that benched his ass.

[Guest Stogey24]

That is the point. It is not that Le Genius is hated, it is that losing is hated. Yes there have been injuries of late, but when Price went down we went for the swan song and there weren't a lot of injuries. We were out of the race when the major injuries showed up Petry etc. Price is a huge part of this team, that we can all agree on, but really he should be the difference in winning or not winning the cup. Right now he is the difference between us being in first or last place. That means the rest of the team and the coach cannot cope with his loss. You can't fire the team. Also as I have said the guys are trying their best, they play hard, but the system that they are playing is not suited to this team. Speed and skill do not do well at dump and chase, but it is a hell of a lot safer. This team just can't win that way unless Carey is in nets. Le Genius must go.

Exactly

Whatever we think of Therrien, I wouldn't pay much heed to Weaver's comments about his 'last year' with us. He was relegated to Black Ace status for nearly all of that season, if memory serves; no kidding that he wasn't happy and has 'issues' with the coach that benched his ass.

It was a general perspective that Weaver gave. It's what he saw in the dressing room

[hab29RETIRED]

In my way into the office the FAN 960 guys in Calgary were talking about Montreal. There was some disturbing comments that I wanted to know if these were reported in Montreal as well. One comment was that MB has again said that MT will remain as coach - I thought that a few days ago MB said that not to believe everything you hear when lavoie reported that MT would not be fired at the end of the season.

The other was that there is not only a rift between MT and Subban that MB is totally aligned with MT, but there is a major rift between subban and other core players and subban is not liked in the room. They also said that subban was on the market at the deadline. Has this been reported anywhere else???

[KoRP]

In my way into the office the FAN 960 guys in Calgary were talking about Montreal. There was some disturbing comments that I wanted to know if these were reported I Montreal recently. On comment was that MB has again said that MT will remain as coach - I thought that a few days ago MB said that not to believe everything you hear when lavoie reported that MT would not be fired at the end of the season.

The other was that there is not only a rift between MT and Subban that MB is totally aligned with MT, but there is a major rift between subban and other core players and subban I no liked in the room. They also said that subban was on the market at the deadline. Has this been reported anywhere else???

First I've heard of it, but you know what? I wouldn't doubt it one bit.

[habs rule]

In my way into the office the FAN 960 guys in Calgary were talking about Montreal. There was some disturbing comments that I wanted to know if these were reported in Montreal as well. One comment was that MB has again said that MT will remain as coach - I thought that a few days ago MB said that not to believe everything you hear when lavoie reported that MT would not be fired at the end of the season.

The other was that there is not only a rift between MT and Subban that MB is totally aligned with MT, but there is a major rift between subban and other core players and subban is not liked in the room. They also said that subban was on the market at the deadline. Has this been reported anywhere else???

As far as I know Markdown Marc has said nothing, and as to Subban, I kinda doubt that, He and Pacioretti were pretty close in the Captains ballot from what I heard but I have no proof of that. PK is a pretty dynamic guy, but I think he would be popular with his team mates. He always has a smile and seems to socialize with the guys. Again rumour no proof. I would be pretty surprised if MB would trade PK, because he would have to get a hell of a return not to cause a riot in Montreal. I would be the guy at the front of the riot.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Habs29, it sounds like your 'source' just reheated every vague, unsubstantiated rumour that has percolated out of Montreal over the past while. I wouldn't worry too much on the basis of the usual white noise that follows this organization around.

[hab29RETIRED]

Not my source. Just heard it on the radio fan 960 on the way into work. One of the hosts is former NHLer, warriner who used to play for the flames. He also said the to return would have to astronomical, but one thing that passed me off was that he said, what has PK really done. He's getting his points, but is running around like a chicken with his head cutoff and there is a a reasin he didn't play in the Olympics and wasn't selected to t world Cup. While both hosts said that MT should be fine, Warriner said that he knows MB quote well and if h had to chose between the GM and the player, he'd be closing MB, which in my opinion is unbelievable.

Anyway, they generally don't spend much time talking about other teams unless the flames are playing them,so I thought there may have been a new news release out of montreal.

Habs29, it sounds like your 'source' just reheated every vague, unsubstantiated rumour that has percolated out of Montreal over the past while. I wouldn't worry too much on the basis of the usual white noise that follows this organization around.

[habs rule]

This is a quote from a guy named sholi2000.com.

I think he makes some good points,

The Rise and Fall of Canadien Hockey Part III

Montreal;

Very easy to analyze this team. They are THE most predictable team in the NHL.
Four lines all play the same. Their power play because of the lack of creativity and movement can be shut down by junior team. Their goaltending is average. For three months their defensemen were doing the oddest things to give up shorthanded situation one after the other (poor coaching, explanation). PK Subban game after game controlling the puck in the defensive looking for options, but they’re never there, why? Players do not leave their zone on their own, they are taught what they are doing (coaching). The team waited and waited for Carey Price to return, and all the while played the same system game after game even though they weren’t scoring. Most coaches would change that up, but our guys didn’t, couldn’t, WOULDN’T.

Line Arrangements- players playing out of character

Line ice manipulation, who, and when a line should be on the ice

Power Play- coaches design it

Poor System- Coach applies his system to skill, and not a skill to the system

Poor goaltending- but the team wasn’t scoring more than two goals/game anyway.

Poor defensive play- bad players, all of them or poor instruction?

But the biggest reason from a fan/coach/player’s perspective is that the head coach couldn’t see when change was needed and when he did see it, his answer was to plug it with third and fourth liners. That’s incredible to me.

We have a great core, and good fillers. Better than most, but they could not score playing the coach’s game. This is not a new problem. This happened last year, and the year before.

So what are our good points? We can kill penalties, but so can 20 other teams with similar numbers.

The coach finally got Galchenyuk on the top line, but did he get him there because he had a vision or because of lack of options, and media pressure….that’s so funny. Media that week was on Bergevin about Galchenyuk and poof, game 65 he’s a center. More ice time, more responsibility more production.

Fans will never understand why. Some players, especially those with talent will always perform differently if they see themselves out of character, out of what they see their role as.

Fans have no idea, what it’s like to see players playing ahead of them when everyone on the team is thinking the same thing. “WTF is he doing up there.”

Lars Eller when given top end players, performs and I have all the numbers and stats to prove it. Actually just look at the shortened season. He played with talent, was on pace for almost 60 points. Then Therrien put him on the third line, third line role, third line assignments and his production plummeted. So is it on Lars for not making his wingers around him better? How many times have we seen him make a pass to the slot for a scoring chance only to see the player woof it? Is it on Bergevin for not getting third line players? The players were always there in black and white, but the coach couldn’t put them together.

This is not an opinion, it’s what we all see….well most of us, but because Therrien is francophone some fans come running to his defense trying their best to defend him, and very poorly I might add.. Meanwhile those who criticize Therrien could care less about politics. We’ll take any coach who will succeed, and I’m not talking Wins and Losses. I’m talking getting the most out of what he/they have, and this bench can’t.

But things are looking up for Montreal. Defense looks a little better, and the right player is playing #1 center.

Last point. Until more talent comes in, they can’t put Gallagher on the top line. It takes away from L2, and as stated above, players don’t perform well without talent, and Pleks can’t do it all himself on L2 with fillers. So Gallagher has to play L2 with him.

Line Arrangements
Ice manipulation
Poor System
Power Play
Poor defensive play
Poor goaltending
Poor coaches

And again this is not based on this season, same thing last year, and the year before that. Some fans don’t care how the wins come as long as they come. I care how they come, because well, that’s just me, and there are a ton of fans that play/coach here, and for some reason we all have the same opinion. I find that very interesting.

All this is off the top off my head. If I went into every article I’ve written ( I save them all), I bet I could come up with another fifteen points on coaching and managing…I know I could because I barely touched Galchenyuk, Eller, Desharnais, Weisie, and Pacioretty.

NOT a conspiracy It’s called losing with Style.

OK that was fun, Here’s to two wins this weekend! Give me Something to believe in…..anyone?

[Lovett's Magnatones]

In my way into the office the FAN 960 guys in Calgary were talking about Montreal. There was some disturbing comments that I wanted to know if these were reported in Montreal as well. One comment was that MB has again said that MT will remain as coach - I thought that a few days ago MB said that not to believe everything you hear when lavoie reported that MT would not be fired at the end of the season.

The other was that there is not only a rift between MT and Subban that MB is totally aligned with MT, but there is a major rift between subban and other core players and subban is not liked in the room. They also said that subban was on the market at the deadline. Has this been reported anywhere else???

Who said this?

They can't trade Subban at this point, if he gets traded, it'll be like Vinny. A buyout after a couple of mediocre years. He means too much to the community, and I don't know how a team would fit his salary under the cap.

[BCHabnut]

I always lean on sholi2000 for expert coaching analysis. Real toss up between him Farber Lebrun, and Mckenzie

[DON]

No it isn't. But he had some big f'in smiley faces that's for sure.

[DON]

Therrien is so sneaky, I didn't even see how he gave Barberio a concussion.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Eh, from OHL people I know, Subban is hated by everyone one day and the glue that keeps them together the next. All depends if you're talking to an old school curmudgeon or a younger player. Also say goodbye to Price if they pushed Subban out. I guess he was vocal in Subban being one of the leaders of the team. Same with Gallagher.

[DON]

If traded Subban, you are saying there will be a mutiny?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

If traded Subban, you are saying there will be a mutiny?

More like players will say they are committed to Montreal but just have to test the market and then...

[KoRP]

If I were Bergevin, I would simply ask Price what I should do, and do it.

Let's face it, his career as GM in Montreal hinges on Price, so why not go all in.

I think if Price gets a vote, PK stays... ;)

[DON]

What is this speculation based on?

Likely as much truth as me saying Price/Gallagher/Pacioretty all cant stand Subban and would be much happier to see a Tavares in lineup instead.

[Guest Stogey24]

If I were Bergevin, I would simply ask Price what I should do, and do it.Let's face it, his career as GM in Montreal hinges on Price, so why not go all in.I think if Price gets a vote, PK stays...

Are you serious?