When does Therrien get fired?

[Commandant]

Gainey, who LEARNED to speak French as part of his commitment to Montreal.

Unthinkable for anglo coaches today, apparently.

Here is the problem. You hire a guy at the end of March or maybe the end of april. He says I'm gonna go home and learn french over the summer. He shows up 4 months later and hasn't learned any french. What do you do when camp opens? You've now put yourself between a rock and a hard place.

Can you fire the guy you hired without even coaching a game because he failed to learn a language over 4 or 5 months in the offseason.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Here is the problem. You hire a guy at the end of March or maybe the end of april. He says I'm gonna go home and learn french over the summer. He shows up 4 months later and hasn't learned any french. What do you do when camp opens? You've now put yourself between a rock and a hard place.

Can you fire the guy you hired without even coaching a game because he failed to learn a language over 4 or 5 months in the offseason.

Sigh. I guess that's true. The Gaineys and Drydens were players, not coaches, when they took the language up; this perhaps makes a difference. They've got a longer tenure with the team and maybe don't put in the 11-hour days or whatever it is that coaches put in.

I still think there has been a net degeneration in attitude, away from the openness toward learning the language that characterized the '70s Habs. But whether it really is realistic that a coach could learn the language well enough to give simple answers to the media is a separate question.

It's probably most realistic in the case of a rookie coach looking for his big break. But if you're going to hire a rookie coach, why not make it a francophone? There's the rub.

[Commandant]

The issue of learning french comes out in a guy like Marc Crawford.

He obviously isn't a francophone but has learned the language.

IF, and of course this is an IF right now... but if the french media criticizes him as not french enough, then I will have a big issue with them. Its no longer about language, but about ancestry at that point. (and its already been suggested when we hired Franco-Ontarian Martin).

[KoRP]

Ultimately it's up to Molson, not much else can be said that will make a difference.

[hab29RETIRED]

Gainey, who LEARNED to speak French as part of his commitment to Montreal.

Unthinkable for anglo coaches today, apparently.

Gainey learned and improved on his French by going to europe and coaching for a a year or two after he retired. He knew the french he learned as a player wasn't going to cut it and he was thinking long-term about coaching in Montreal. He even had stints in Minny and Dallas after coming back from Europe. That's not the same as hiring a coach and than expecting them to be fluent in 4 months, 6 months or even a year.

[habs rule]

Gainey learned and improved on his French by going to europe and coaching for a a year or two after he retired. He knew the french he learned as a player wasn't going to cut it and he was thinking long-term about coaching in Montreal. He even had stints in Minny and Dallas after coming back from Europe. That's not the same as hiring a coach and than expecting them to be fluent in 4 months, 6 months or even a year.

Ya know I really wonder all these Canadian coaches go to Europe, can't speak the language and do very well. But they can't coach in Quebec. Seems a little silly doesn't it?

[kickass528]

Why does he have to be French or know French, lets say the world's best available coach is from Mongolia and knows a bit of English and no French and doesn't want to learn French what do we do pass on him and get a ok French coach

[Commandant]

You can debate it all you want, and I'd even agree with you on that we should get the best coach regardless.

However the fact is that Geoff Molson is on record as saying that the coach of the Montreal Canadiens should be french, and he's the owner and he's the decision maker; so even if we disagree with the policy... the policy is what it is.

[kickass528]

Commandant to bad in this town the minority group wins. When I first looked up scotty it said he was born in peterborough

P.S Thanks

[Commandant]

Commandant to bad in this town the minority group wins. When I first looked up scotty it said he was born in peterborough

P.S Thanks

Gainey is the one from Peterborough.

Also on my point of best available coach, i'm not sure that the best available coach isn't someone who speaks french.

To me there are 2 or 3 elite coaches in the NHL... and the rest of the experienced guys are about the same, and then one or two at the bottom of the list.

Sure I'd love to get Quenneville, or Babcock, but those guys aren't available.

Is there a big difference between the next group? The Todd McLellan, Dan Bylsma, Alain Vigneault, Bruce Boudreau, etc.... caliber of coach and guys who are available like Marc Crawford, Kevin Dineen, Guy Boucher, etc... ? I'm not seeing that big gap.

[Neech]

Is there a big difference between the next group? The Todd McLellan, Dan Bylsma, Alain Vigneault, Bruce Boudreau, etc.... caliber of coach and guys who are available like Marc Crawford, Kevin Dineen, Guy Boucher, etc... ? I'm not seeing that big gap.

All of those anglos are WAY more experienced than Boucher or Dineen.

Crawford never made the playoffs in BOTH Dallas and LA, and only once got out of the first round in Vancouver over a decade ago. Maybe he wouldn't be on the radar of a team without a language requirement.

Can we be sure that the best available coach is disqualified by the language requirement? No, but we must acknowledge it's probably the case.

Would the Marc Crawford era be any better than Therrien's tenure? I could probably more easily talk myself into Guy Boucher changing things up.

[habs rule]

Oh to hell with it we should keep Le Genius, I mean there is nobody out there better. I get really get pissed of with this attitude that we cannot improve on the coaching. BULLSHOIY. Le Genius is a bad coach. Da Forking "process" don't work. Get him the fork out of there and get a new approach and a "process" that maybe does work. I want a coach who is positive and appreciating his players not some asshat who has no idea what he has. He is a frigging egomaniac who bully's and punishes his players with impunity. He is a very good junior team coach in my opinion but get him the hell away from my forking habs.

[BlueKross]

You can debate it all you want, and I'd even agree with you on that we should get the best coach regardless.

However the fact is that Geoff Molson is on record as saying that the coach of the Montreal Canadiens should be french, and he's the owner and he's the decision maker; so even if we disagree with the policy... the policy is what it is.

I am not sure that Molson is aware that he may be vested in losing, that awareness may be the only that trumps policy in Quebec

[Commandant]

All of those anglos are WAY more experienced than Boucher or Dineen.

Crawford never made the playoffs in BOTH Dallas and LA, and only once got out of the first round in Vancouver over a decade ago. Maybe he wouldn't be on the radar of a team without a language requirement.

Can we be sure that the best available coach is disqualified by the language requirement? No, but we must acknowledge it's probably the case.

Would the Marc Crawford era be any better than Therrien's tenure? I could probably more easily talk myself into Guy Boucher changing things up.

Who is the best available coach then? Let me know the name with NHL experience who is available that we can't sign because of the requirement? Just curious...

[Neech]

Who is the best available coach then? Let me know the name with NHL experience who is available that we can't sign because of the requirement? Just curious...

This is the circular straw-man that we keep coming back to. Since there isn't a clear-cut great coach available (hmm, good coaches seem to stay employed, funny about that...) then it doesn't matter if we hire from our 20% who speak French or the entire field. The Panthers are happy with Gallant - that couldn't have been us. Washington is happy with Trotz - that couldn't have been us. Tampa is happy with Cooper - that couldn't have been us.

We just have to face the facts and acknowledge that when we're making a new hire and are limited to 20% (or less) of the candidates, we are greatly hamstrung every time. There's a much higher likelihood that the best available candidate doesn't meet the language requirement. We're left with Therrien and Bergevin, both of whom it's unclear that any other team would have hired on merit alone.

This isn't an insurmountable obstacle, it just makes things a lot harder. We have to get much luckier than anyone else. So, unless Vigneault or Julien fall into our lap I'll have a tough time buying that our next coach is anything more than settling for mediocrity. We probably won't get the best candidate. We'll get a decent coach who speaks French. Change for change's sake.

If it's between Crawford and Boucher I'm leaning Boucher because he's younger and less old-school. But Bergevin seems old-school.

[DON]

Well except for FC Barcelona, who have been remarkably successful despite their Catalan language requirement for coaches.

What is that, a euro dodgeball team?

[DON]

Gainey, who LEARNED to speak French as part of his commitment to Montreal.

Unthinkable for anglo coaches today, apparently.

Just to appease the media and politicians, seems a lame requirement and does not help the actual team.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

This is the circular straw-man that we keep coming back to. Since there isn't a clear-cut great coach available (hmm, good coaches seem to stay employed, funny about that...) then it doesn't matter if we hire from our 20% who speak French or the entire field. The Panthers are happy with Gallant - that couldn't have been us. Washington is happy with Trotz - that couldn't have been us. Tampa is happy with Cooper - that couldn't have been us.

We just have to face the facts and acknowledge that when we're making a new hire and are limited to 20% (or less) of the candidates, we are greatly hamstrung every time. There's a much higher likelihood that the best available candidate doesn't meet the language requirement. We're left with Therrien and Bergevin, both of whom it's unclear that any other team would have hired on merit alone.

This isn't an insurmountable obstacle, it just makes things a lot harder. We have to get much luckier than anyone else. So, unless Vigneault or Julien fall into our lap I'll have a tough time buying that our next coach is anything more than settling for mediocrity. We probably won't get the best candidate. We'll get a decent coach who speaks French. Change for change's sake.

If it's between Crawford and Boucher I'm leaning Boucher because he's younger and less old-school. But Bergevin seems old-school.

And we were happy with Therrien, until this disastrous season. Your references to Gallant, Cooper, etc., prove nothing.

All those guys are part of the basically interchangeable mass of competent, professional NHL-calibre coaches. Yes, there are clear-cut bad coaches - Dallas Eakins and Guy Boucher come to mind. And yes, there are a small number of elite coaches - Quennville, Babcock, Trotz, one or two others. But for the most part, it's a broad pool of good coaches.

Now I don't want to say that they're all literally interchangeable. E.g., some guys are better with young players, others better suited to veterans; the GM may have a particular philosophy that the coach needs to be able to work with and embrace; etc.. But in overall terms, we're talking about a range of perfectly competent coaches. In that context, the language requirement will not necessarily hurt us, unless we end up hiring a coach who is not well-suited to our particular needs just because of linguistic concerns.

E.g., if we hire AV, or Julien, or Crawford, does anyone really think that we'd be leaving a self-evidently superior option on the table? No.

E.g., if we end up hiring Lefebvre, then yes.

So, while I don't like the affirmative action policy, it doesn't ACTUALLY hurt us except in the rare circumstance where we would have to pass on a self-evidently superior option. I doubt this will be the case here.

[habs rule]

This is the circular straw-man that we keep coming back to. Since there isn't a clear-cut great coach available (hmm, good coaches seem to stay employed, funny about that...) then it doesn't matter if we hire from our 20% who speak French or the entire field. The Panthers are happy with Gallant - that couldn't have been us. Washington is happy with Trotz - that couldn't have been us. Tampa is happy with Cooper - that couldn't have been us.

We just have to face the facts and acknowledge that when we're making a new hire and are limited to 20% (or less) of the candidates, we are greatly hamstrung every time. There's a much higher likelihood that the best available candidate doesn't meet the language requirement. We're left with Therrien and Bergevin, both of whom it's unclear that any other team would have hired on merit alone.

This isn't an insurmountable obstacle, it just makes things a lot harder. We have to get much luckier than anyone else. So, unless Vigneault or Julien fall into our lap I'll have a tough time buying that our next coach is anything more than settling for mediocrity. We probably won't get the best candidate. We'll get a decent coach who speaks French. Change for change's sake.

If it's between Crawford and Boucher I'm leaning Boucher because he's younger and less old-school. But Bergevin seems old-school.

This one time I really agree with Neech, other than the Boucher part, I don't pretend to know all the potential coaches in existance, and I believe it is MB's job to find the best coach. Why we have to tie his hands behind his back makes no sesnse to me. The fact that we don't know who the potential candidates are is not forking reason to keep Le Genius. He is a bad coach, he must go.

[Neech]

E.g., if we hire AV, or Julien, or Crawford, does anyone really think that we'd be leaving a self-evidently superior option on the table? No.

E.g., if we end up hiring Lefebvre, then yes.

So, while I don't like the affirmative action policy, it doesn't ACTUALLY hurt us except in the rare circumstance where we would have to pass on a self-evidently superior option. I doubt this will be the case here.

Crawford's resume is pretty spotty. AV and Julien would be the best coach available.

As habs rule said, I don't pretend to know all the candidates. Gallant and Cooper were guys I wouldn't have pegged as good hires that are out of our frame of reference. All we can be certain about is that 80% of the best available candidates are being passed over by our organization. We have to get very lucky to get a good coach.

[Guest Stogey24]

Crawford's resume is pretty spotty. AV and Julien would be the best coach available.

As habs rule said, I don't pretend to know all the candidates. Gallant and Cooper were guys I wouldn't have pegged as good hires that are out of our frame of reference. All we can be certain about is that 80% of the best available candidates are being passed over by our organization. We have to get very lucky to get a good coach.

Crawford took over some shit teams though.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Crawford took over some shit teams though.

I didn't say he was a great coach. But he is a good coach, whose record would be better if he hadn't been saddled - or saddled himself - with laughable goaltending in Van and LA. And he's been through every conceivable up and down that pro hockey can throw at you. Did a good job in Dallas and only got canned because of a GM change. Had had great success in Europe. He's ready for Montreal IMHO.

[habs rule]

Now that the Canadiens have been officially eliminated from playoff contention, the first question coach Michel Therrien was asked after practice was whether he would now change the way he uses players when it comes to ice time, etc.

His one-word answer: “No.”

Ahh the kindly old coach has spoken, things are going so well why change anything?

I think we should keep him..............................(in a closet in the basement)

[Guest Stogey24]

Desharnais was second for forwards in ice time last game, right behind Plek. He played 5:55 on PP too

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Desharnais was second for forwards in ice time last game, right behind Plek. He played 5:55 on PP too

Little David just gets the best of everything. Ice time, linemates, powerplay time, zone starts, and they even forget to bash him on L'Antichambre. I bet Therrien takes him out for ice cream when he gets a secondary assists.