Montreal vs. Florida | December 29th, 2013 | 1700 EST

[Lovett's Magnatones]

I'd say we need another top forward as well as Galchenyuk reaching his potential. And that's a big if - despite the wishful prognostications and grandiose statements, we still have little reason to believe that Galchenyuk is better than any of the 2013 top 4. It could be that we tanked the wrong year.

I have hope that at least one of these defensive prospects will turn into the reliable second-pairing guy that we need, but you're right that it won't happen this year, and next year is uncertain as well. It would be nice if they could get some experience with the big club before then.

It's easy to see what Galchenyuk/Eller's issue is, it's Briere. Any line Briere is on has no forechecker and for whatever reason Therrien wants them to play dump and chase.

The Habs this year are a playoff team, but to be fair, every other team in the hunt in the Atlantic Division is having a ton of injury problems. The other teams are only going to improve, the Habs are healthy and they have to make some kind of a push.

[hab29RETIRED]

I disagree. I think we need at least three game breakers up front if we are including existing players. I think if Galchenyuk gets paired with the right players and has a coach that will play him more and he gets the opportunity like rookies like Barkov are getting, he WILL be one of those players. We also need another PHYSICAL net crasher like Galleghar - only with size (to replace Bourque).

Then we need to replace Gionta with another 25+ goal scorer.

On defence we need two bruisers, that can actually play defence and get the puck out if their end. I don't see Tinordi /Beaulieu filling both roles. IMO, the best we can hope is that in another 2 years Beaulieu can replace Markov and next year, Tinordi can be one of those bruisers.

I think at this point we have a good idea of exactly what we have in the 2013-14 Montreal Canadiens.

The team is a pretty good, but not great club in a league full of parity. They can get on good runs (such as the 10 game point streak), and they can go on bad runs where they cant score but get enough defence and goaltending to hover around 500 during those down spots. Overall, they are an above average team that is just below the glass ceiling of the true NHL contenders.

What do they need to change that? Two players IMO, a true gamebreaker up front, and a 20 minutes per game second pairing defenceman.

Hopefully those two players are also going to develop internally in Alex Galchenyuk and one of our many defensive prospects Tinordi/Beaulieu/etc.... Its just unlikely that its going to happen this year.

So we are what we are. A pretty good team, but one with flaws that will prevent them from winning it all and lead to a first or second round playoff exit.

They are on the right track, but there is still a fair ways to go.

[brobin]

We need a trade to get offense. With a weak eastern conference, we will probably make the playoffs and maybe even a round. That doesn't make this a great team. My fear is they won't trade away some of our Ufas or vets to get a legit prospect or true offensive sniper. They will continue on being happy to make the playoffs, then pick up some expensive, over the hill past star, probably short, to claim they made a move. I look forward to getting St. Louis when he is finally washed up.

We need a bobby Ryan type player and another great prospect to really get to the next level in a year or two. If we don't get bigger, we are not winning a cup.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I think if Galchenyuk gets paired with the right players and has a coach that will play him more and he gets the opportunity like rookies like Barkov are getting, he WILL be one of those players.

Galchenyuk is on his way to being a 40 point player this year despite the recent slump. If this season is anything like last year he'll break out in the final third of the year (rookie year was hot 1/3, cold 2/3, hot 3/3).

I keep hearing this "paired with the right player" junk and it continues to ignore that a player has to make their own chances sometimes. That's how they earn bigger minutes. You can't just float around waiting for the coach to move you up. Hate Gionta all you want but Gionta works it every shift. Hate Desharnais all you want but despite not making anything happen for most of a game, he still finds his name on the scoreboard in a goal or an assist more often than anyone other than Pacioretty in the last 20 games.

Yes, talented players should play with other talented players. And yes, Therrien needs to stop spreading the offence. But if Galchenyuk can't score with one of our most offensive minded players (Plekanec) that's not Plek's fault. It's something Galchenyuk has to work on.

It's nigh time we stop pointing fingers making an excuse for every player we like and just recognizing that they are not scoring period. It's up to the coach to find the right way to wake them up, or the GM to shake the team up and bring them back to earth. Even then, I can't be the only person who finds it amusing that last year we couldn't get enough defence but had plenty of offence but now we don't have enough offence but have plenty of defence. Top 5 Goals a Game last season, Top 3 Goals Against a Game this season. We might need to wait until next year to see this team do both at the same time.

[brobin]

Galchenyuk is on his way to being a 40 point player this year despite the recent slump. If this season is anything like last year he'll break out in the final third of the year (rookie year was hot 1/3, cold 2/3, hot 3/3).

I keep hearing this "paired with the right player" junk and it continues to ignore that a player has to make their own chances sometimes. That's how they earn bigger minutes. You can't just float around waiting for the coach to move you up. Hate Gionta all you want but Gionta works it every shift. Hate Desharnais all you want but despite not making anything happen for most of a game, he still finds his name on the scoreboard in a goal or an assist more often than anyone other than Pacioretty in the last 20 games.

Yes, talented players should play with other talented players. And yes, Therrien needs to stop spreading the offence. But if Galchenyuk can't score with one of our most offensive minded players (Plekanec) that's not Plek's fault. It's something Galchenyuk has to work on.

It's nigh time we stop pointing fingers making an excuse for every player we like and just recognizing that they are not scoring period. It's up to the coach to find the right way to wake them up, or the GM to shake the team up and bring them back to earth. Even then, I can't be the only person who finds it amusing that last year we couldn't get enough defence but had plenty of offence but now we don't have enough offence but have plenty of defence. Top 5 Goals a Game last season, Top 3 Goals Against a Game this season. We might need to wait until next year to see this team do both at the same time.

+1

Eller, Chucky, and Gally have cooled off and no matter what line they are on, it is up to them to score. They have all had lots of ice time with good players. Gally has looked slow lately. Chucky has not been as strong on the puck or as driven to get a shot as he was, and Eller looks good on the boards but can't seem to get it to the net.

Last year was a short season. This year they are learning how hard it is to bring it for a full season.

[DON]

The Russian duo and Pacioretty had "very poor" defensive efforts.

[KoRP]

Sometimes a player needs to make his own breaks, and in today's NHL there has to be players in your lineup that have the will to drive the net, and the freedom to try and beat opposing players one on one, instead of always erring on the side of caution defensively. The ice surface is small and that doesn't bode well for small players, who rarely can get around the big guys, especially the defense, with just speed alone. Galchenyuk is that type of player that can beat defenders one on one, but without Gallagher on his line, there is no one going to the net to draw defenders, leaving no space to make a move. It's coaching, and it's personnel, in this league now, there is no room for soft players, and there are very few small guys that have what it takes. Our small guys with the exception of Gallagher, are not big enough, or strong enough, or determined enough to bring it every night because they are beat down from playing "big", eventually size will just wear you out. There is no doubt that Patch is an elite scorer, but his effort and grit are less than minimum requirements to be an NHL star, or a prolific playoff performer. Attitude and fierceness is what we need, and we just don't have it. When teams let us use our speed, and we work over the top hard, and we get a bounce, and when Price is in nets, yep we have a decent chance to win, but take one of those away, such as a team being physical with us, we are done from the opening face off.

Top 3 problems on this team

1.Size

2.Grit

3.Coaching that can't/won't change the philosophy that we need to coddle DD and Briere to cover the bad moves our GM made in signing these guys.

We need the EGG line back together, and let the veterans figure out how to score for themselves instead of relying on the kids to motivate them, or in reality, carry them. Plec, Gionta, and whoever are a decent line, and they hold their own, but they will never be a top offensive line. Patch needs to be shown again, like Cole showed him, how to drive the net..... and stop being such a pussy.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Interesting discussion hereabouts, as befits the midpoint of the season.

In terms of where the Habs are, I'm probably closer to Commandant's more optimistic reading than Habs29's grouchy one in this thread. Commandant argues that we need a gamebreaker up front and a top-4 defenceman in order to become contenders, and hopes that Galy and one of our AHL guys can evolve into these. Habs29 adds that we also need a power forward in addition to those elements. This obviously wouldn't hurt but I'm not sure we need it to become a contender IF Galy and (say) Tinordi can evolve as Commandant hopes. Then again, I'm not sure I agree with Commandant that we are just below the top tier right now. That seems optimistic to me. Or perhaps better, if we are in that high second tier position, it's mostly because of Price, who has been absolutely superb this season - about as good as a goaltender can be - not because of the team in front of him.

A high second-tier team should have an "outside chance" of winning the Cup. I don't see this bunch winning the Cup under anything but miraculous circumstances.

What really troubles me continues to be the problem I've written about before. It could take 2-3 years for Galy and Tinordi (or whoever) to become the players Commandant says that we need, assuming they ever do. It's not clear that Markov will have anything left in the tank by that point. So then we'll be needing a Markov replacement. Maybe Beaulieu can be that guy, maybe not. I'm still uneasy, in other words, about whether - squinting 2-3 years into the future - this organization will truly have the pieces to contend. This is the sort of thought-process that has led me to (nervously) toy with trading Pleks in order to get back pieces that will remove that doubt, despite the obviously disastrous impact this would have on today's team.

As for this year's squad: the "size" issue has been obvious for months, but our recent struggles owe mainly to three players IMHO: Markov, Subban, and Emelin. All three have been flailing by their standards, partly due to their own issues - Markov and Emelin being gassed, PK having been rattled by the non-stop torrent of criticism of his supposedly just awful hockey skills by a universe of know-nothings who would rather that he be Brain Engblom than PK Subban. But it's mostly because other teams have figured out that being super-aggressive on these guys is the way to stop the Montreal Canadiens. It is up to them to adjust, up to other players to seize the openings provided by all this attention on those guys, and up to Therrien to find a solution.

As for Therrien, he is right on the schedule I set for him when he was first hired: look great in year one, start to have problems in year two, get fired in year three. He's all right, I'll give him that, but he seems to be almost the quintessentially average NHL coach circa 2013. But because we are committed to affirmative action for francophones, any criticism of him needs to be framed by the wider question: which fluently bilingual coach out there is both available, and superior to, the mediocrity that is Therrien?

[habs rule]

Tired? They just had a week off. Florida played back to back also. They didn't look tired.

there was a little sarcasm there. the no excuses thing is kind gone bye bye.

[habs rule]

I'm not trying to hop on the trade em all bandwagon but I've actually felt like we needed trades since before the season even began. I wouldn't mind and would actually like in some cases, to see Diaz Gorges Markov, Briere, Desharnais, gionta, And bourque all traded.

Just imagine how different the team could look after that kind of overhaul.

Pacioretty also needs to get more consistent, and boy Emelin really needs to start showin his stuff again. He definitely can be worth 4 mill but right now... He worries me for sure.

Yes unfortunately I agree with you but we can't do it all at once. If this could be accomplished by training camp next year THAT would be great. Assuming we can upgrade.

[habs rule]

I have been saying for a long time now that team needs a goal scorer, sniper, we don't have one in the pipeline I am aware of. So we must trade for one, MB has to give up something to get quality. 2 years ago we had no defence and a ton of injuries, that is how we ended up with Wiz and Kaberle. Now we have defensive depth, so it we need to convert some of that to offense. MB make it so.

[BCHabnut]

Sometimes a player needs to make his own breaks, and in today's NHL there has to be players in your lineup that have the will to drive the net, and the freedom to try and beat opposing players one on one, instead of always erring on the side of caution defensively. The ice surface is small and that doesn't bode well for small players, who rarely can get around the big guys, especially the defense, with just speed alone. Galchenyuk is that type of player that can beat defenders one on one, but without Gallagher on his line, there is no one going to the net to draw defenders, leaving no space to make a move. It's coaching, and it's personnel, in this league now, there is no room for soft players, and there are very few small guys that have what it takes. Our small guys with the exception of Gallagher, are not big enough, or strong enough, or determined enough to bring it every night because they are beat down from playing "big", eventually size will just wear you out. There is no doubt that Patch is an elite scorer, but his effort and grit are less than minimum requirements to be an NHL star, or a prolific playoff performer. Attitude and fierceness is what we need, and we just don't have it. When teams let us use our speed, and we work over the top hard, and we get a bounce, and when Price is in nets, yep we have a decent chance to win, but take one of those away, such as a team being physical with us, we are done from the opening face off.

Top 3 problems on this team

1.Size

2.Grit

3.Coaching that can't/won't change the philosophy that we need to coddle DD and Briere to cover the bad moves our GM made in signing these guys.

We need the EGG line back together, and let the veterans figure out how to score for themselves instead of relying on the kids to motivate them, or in reality, carry them. Plec, Gionta, and whoever are a decent line, and they hold their own, but they will never be a top offensive line. Patch needs to be shown again, like Cole showed him, how to drive the net..... and stop being such a pussy.

I would argue that this coaching staff is very willing to change its philosophy. Last year and the beginning of this year, the team was firewagon open offense. After the Edmonton defeat at home, the team made a sudden change to defense first. First on puck is something you hear a lot and I believe that the coaches are adapting to their players strengths. Trying to use speed to create turnovers is their bread and butter. This has not worked lately, because other teams have adjusted to the gameplan. On defense, I see a lot of quick puck plays and chips and very few hits. I think the coaches are pushing this. I don't like it, but I don't think the whole team decided to lay off of hitting. The coaches are pushing it. I expect we will see more changes to philosophy defensively. I want to see more hitting and taking the man. Especially with our pk, which is just awesome.

In the end, I cannot think of a single player or coach, which is responsible for this team's ineptitude 5 on 5. Bourque is a good 7th 8th forward. Briere is still a descent 2nd 3rd centre (playing centre with a couple big trogs) DD is a ok 2nd 3rd centre. Boullion Murray are both ok 7th defensemen. The issue here is balance. This team is not structured to play 5 on 5. The coaches, the pairings, and the forward line juggling will only get you so far.

[BCHabnut]

On a positive ot negative note. Whichever side you choose. Midget Reway looked awesome in juniors.

[KoRP]

Guess I should clarify that I think the only philosophy they haven't changed is that they need to play others more than giving DD and Briere ice time over say, Eller or Galchenyuk. I agree that they have changed their gameplan quite a bit, just not in a good way as you outlined very well BCHabnut.....

Agreed, Reway looks like a dynamo...

[Lovett's Magnatones]

On a positive ot negative note. Whichever side you choose. Midget Reway looked awesome in juniors.

I read an article where he said that he should be a first rounder, but he "lives too well" and used to smoke 4 packs of cigarettes a day.

[BCHabnut]

Is there enough time in a day to smoke 4 packs a day?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Guess I should clarify that I think the only philosophy they haven't changed is that they need to play others more than giving DD and Briere ice time over say, Eller or Galchenyuk.

Total On Ice Minutes

Eller: 686:57 (17:10)

Desharnais: 612:11 (16:06)

Galchenyuk: 603:05 (15:04)

Briere: 366:10 (12:37)

Total Even Strength Minutes

Eller: 561:36 (14:02)

Desharnais: 527:14 (13:52)

Galchenyuk: 519:00 (12:58)

Briere: 316:31 (10:54)

Past 10 Games, Most Minutes per Player

Eller: 19:46 vs. NYI

Desharnais: 20:28 vs. Florida

Galchenyuk: 19:03 vs. LA

Briere: 15:18 vs. Florida

Past 10 Games, Least Minutes per Player

Eller: 9:16 vs. Buffalo

Desharnais: 14:59 vs. Philadelphia

Galchenyuk: 12:22 vs. St. Louis

Briere: 4:27 vs. Phoenix

[PMAC]

Regarding the criticism of Patches... against Tampa, he took a puck in the face, was cut for 21 stitches, lost two teeth and was back out after a few shifts...definitely not a pussy! Some don't like the fact that he doesn't crash the net consistently, but he scores a lot of goals from farther out and he has 15 goals, best on the team. Give the guy a break!

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Is there enough time in a day to smoke 4 packs a day?

Ask Guy Lafleur!

[Toronthab]

In my considered opinion, I should look to other people's considered opinions. Hope that helps.

I was really impressed with our strong stretch a few weeks back, and just loved the team play I saw. I think that's our team. Playing 82 games and expecting players to give a ship over a ridiculous and inhuman stretch like that seems peculiarly optimistic. We are in a lull phase. It's Christmas! I'll be in Christmas mode for another couple of weeks and frankly hope we all are. Merry post Christmas and thanks to you all for all the itneresting and informed comment from you guys.

[Guest Stogey24]

Regarding the criticism of Patches... against Tampa, he took a puck in the face, was cut for 21 stitches, lost two teeth and was back out after a few shifts...definitely not a pussy! Some don't like the fact that he doesn't crash the net consistently, but he scores a lot of goals from farther out and he has 15 goals, best on the team. Give the guy a break!

So you take a Puck to the chops and your a power forward? Its hockey, even Raphael Diaz would have been back after that.

[Guest Stogey24]

Is there enough time in a day to smoke 4 packs a day?

Haha. 4 packs a day he's not playing puck.

[PMAC]

I didn't say anything about Patches being a power forward...I don't care what kind of forward his is considered as long as he keeps scoring and is responsible defensively. I was responding to the ridiculous assertion that Patches lacks courage and "compete" level

[Guest Stogey24]

I didn't say anything about Patches being a power forward...I don't care what kind of forward his is considered as long as he keeps scoring and is responsible defensively. I was responding to the ridiculous assertion that Patches lacks courage and "compete" level

To me he does lack compete. There are nights where I see him break though the centre of the ice in the offensive zone and put some elite shots on net. Then there is other nights where he'll play an outside game and wait for plays to happen. I really wonder sometimes if Desharnais makes Pac play a smaller style of game. Putting big line like Pac-Eller-Borque out there might get some testosterone flowing.

[hab29RETIRED]

You're suggesting Bourque is going to help increase MaxPac's compete level and get the testasterone going??? Despite his size, Bourque is probably the laziest, softest player in the league. He may decide to play physical one out of five games and that is a complaint about him during his last 2 years in Calgary. His compete level reminds me of Malakov.

I'd take DD over him any day of the week.

To me he does lack compete. There are nights where I see him break though the centre of the ice in the offensive zone and put some elite shots on net. Then there is other nights where he'll play an outside game and wait for plays to happen. I really wonder sometimes if Desharnais makes Pac play a smaller style of game. Putting big line like Pac-Eller-Borque out there might get some testosterone flowing.