Am I over-reacting after another crappy effort?

[Lovett's Magnatones]

I can't wait to sew these guys play the Bruins on Thursday!

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I've been mostly supportive of the team and under the feeling they were just in a slump but being at the Red Wings game was eye opening.

Therrien would constantly make rookie decisions at the Wings. Stuff that everyone could figure out. He was beaten on close to every line change. The worst part was that the Canadiens play only 80% of the ice. In just about every play that got into the Red Wings zone there was never a play made on the right side of the boards. This led to guys like Beaulieu having to go deep to make up for Gionta, Gallagher or Bourque being out of position. The fact this happened on ALL THREE LINES really pushed me to believe it was a coaching decision.

As for the defence, it felt like a serious lack of communication. Also there was rarely anyone playing the man. This isn't a size issue. Detroit is a small team. Their biggest blueliner was Ericsson and he hardly outsized Pacioretty side by side. But Montreal played Detroit like they were bigger and didn't have much confidence matching them skill for skill. Detroit was very beatable. They let Briere carry the puck on them several times. But Montreal wasn't ready to commit. Nobody played like they were ready to win aside from the kids and a few veterans. The rest were either tuned out, or in Eller's case, wildly inconsistent.

I've been hard on Eller here mostly because I feel people make excuses for him based on what they hope for him to be instead of what he is, but Lars Eller really showed that he's a player begging for a good coach to lead him the right way. Plekanec and Gionta seemed to try to talk to him a lot but Eller was never getting the point. It was an experience issue. Eller is right in the middle of being a young learning player and hitting his peak. When Plek and Gio got into the Wings zone they looked like they had a strategy. Like they were following a play. Eller on the other hand was everywhere. He was chaotic. This would sometimes work in his favour as he'd get puck control or send the Wings in a tizzy because they weren't sure what to do. But other times, he'd completely ruin a play by not following what Plek and Gio were doing.

All of this points to a communication breakdown between the coach and the locker room. Or rather, the coaches. Let's go plural with this. I don't know for sure what's going on but I saw a team frustrated and showing very little loyalty. What happened to the shot blocking Canadiens? Why is Murray getting matched against the best forwards? Why is good play from Leblanc not getting rewarded? Why is good play from Moen not getting rewarded? Why are so many Habs players regressing to how we all know they can play? It all comes down to coaching. Price went from a top five goalie to tying a George Vezina record he didn't want anything to do with. Nobody is happy and nothing is working. No line combo is going to solve this problem. The fact Bergevin has done absolutely nothing is horrifying. The last trades the team made was in July. They haven't even attempting a waiver pick up. What is going on?

The Chicago game wasn't a bad team looking good. It was a good team being good. I truly believe that. But this team isn't going to work this problem out without some major work from the administration.

[Guest Stogey24]

So when does Therrien go? One more loss, 2 more loses? Montreal can't afford to be losing these games. Bergevin has to make a move before we're out of a playoff spot.

[DON]

So when does Therrien go? One more loss, 2 more loses? Montreal can't afford to be losing these games. Bergevin has to make a move before we're out of a playoff spot.

Therrian will be leading Hab training camp in fall of 2014, no matter how season finishes.

Jan 2017 he will be fired, my dumb guess.

[Neech]

I'm starting to really lose faith in Bergevin. I feel like we might have hired someone who is just behind the times, and never really established himself as a talented manager. Lovett made a good point in another thread: Chiarelli and Bowman are highly educated - have we essentially put Josh Gorges in charge?

We hired every French guy with a hockey resume available, but are any of them good hires? The Lightning were able to hire Guy Boucher, a talented up-and-comer, and replace him with Jon Cooper, another talented up-and-comer. Not only do we lack the political fortitude to make those sorts of decisions, it seems like we lack the brains at the top.

The one thing that Bergevin has going for him that could prevent a JFJ-era-Leafs type disaster is patience, but patience alone isn't enough to build a strong organization.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I'm starting to really lose faith in Bergevin. I feel like we might have hired someone who is just behind the times, and never really established himself as a talented manager. Lovett made a good point in another thread: Chiarelli and Bowman are highly educated - have we essentially put Josh Gorges in charge?

We hired every French guy with a hockey resume available, but are any of them good hires? The Lightning were able to hire Guy Boucher, a talented up-and-comer, and replace him with Jon Cooper, another talented up-and-comer. Not only do we lack the political fortitude to make those sorts of decisions, it seems like we lack the brains at the top.

The one thing that Bergevin has going for him that could prevent a JFJ-era-Leafs type disaster is patience, but patience alone isn't enough to build a strong organization.

It is still too soon to lose faith in Bergevin. I'm among those very concerned that Therrien has lost the room, but firing him would still be premature. We will have a much better sense of the degree to which Bergie knows what he's doing based, first, on whether this crisis continues and if so, what steps he takes to address it; second, what he does at the deadline; and third, what he does in the summer. Only by, say, October will we really have an idea of what we've got in our GM.

I don't subscribe to this "high school education" stuff. I'm a big believer in education, Lord knows, but MB has paid his dues both as a player and an administrator. He should be judged by his actions, not the number of degrees he possesses.

[Neech]

It is still too soon to lose faith in Bergevin. I'm among those very concerned that Therrien has lost the room, but firing him would still be premature. We will have a much better sense of the degree to which Bergie knows what he's doing based, first, on whether this crisis continues and if so, what steps he takes to address it; second, what he does at the deadline; and third, what he does in the summer. Only by, say, October will we really have an idea of what we've got in our GM.

I agree it'll be the end of summer when we the Bergevin picture becomes a bit more clear. But the narrative is certainly declining. In the first year it looked like he was an important member of a well-run organization who knew he had to surround himself with talent in Montreal, along with addressing some team needs for toughness and character to compliment a decent nucleus. Now his moves look decidely mediocre, and each level of the organization is struggling under his hires. Any positives are from the previous regimes.

[Fanpuck33]

Look at it this way - last year the season went exactly the same as this one. First 40 or so games they were excellent and then the wheels came off. The good news is that this year they have time to turn it around before the playoffs or fall apart completely and show big changes are truly needed.

[sim.on]

Interesting stat that suggests that this is more than a slump; the habs are 26th in the league in terms of 5 on 5 goals for to against at 0.79 goals scored for every one they give up. So if the power play isnt at least above average were screwed. The 4 teams below us are Nashville, Edmonton, Calgary and Buffalo.

[sim.on]

Emelin and Murray are tied for worst on the team at -13.

Murray clearly can not play. Tinordi should take his spot as he was even in his 6 games played thus far this season averaging 12:27 per game (only one minute less than murray). With us clearly not being ready to contend why not give the young guys who are the future of this team some seasoning in the pros? seams the the easiest and fasted way to improve this team for the present and more importantly the future.

Emelin s play on the other hand is hopefully just a result of the time he has missed. Coming back from that type of injury can be difficult and it take time to get your game back to where it was.

With Tinordi and Beaulieu both in the lineup Bouillion would be the spare (-9 on the season), the pairings could look something like this

Markov Subban
Beaulieu Georges
Emelin Tinordi

Despite all the flak that Georges has been getting lately, and although from what Ive seen he not definetly not a top 3 or 4 on a contender he is second on the team in +/- at a +5, just behind Pleck

[brobin]

Interesting stat that suggests that this is more than a slump; the habs are 26th in the league in terms of 5 on 5 goals for to against at 0.79 goals scored for every one they give up. So if the power play isnt at least above average were screwed. The 4 teams below us are Nashville, Edmonton, Calgary and Buffalo.

Correct...and hockey people will tell you that 5-5 is all about the talent. Special teams is about talent and coaching.

This team had a bunch of dead weight combined with small skill players. Recipe for disaster. There are only a few players on this team who really are top talent. After that, the talent and size drops off way too much. Our second tier players are really third tier players, regardless of what they were three years ago.

[hab29RETIRED]

I've been mostly supportive of the team and under the feeling they were just in a slump but being at the Red Wings game was eye opening.

Therrien would constantly make rookie decisions at the Wings. Stuff that everyone could figure out. He was beaten on close to every line change. The worst part was that the Canadiens play only 80% of the ice. In just about every play that got into the Red Wings zone there was never a play made on the right side of the boards. This led to guys like Beaulieu having to go deep to make up for Gionta, Gallagher or Bourque being out of position. The fact this happened on ALL THREE LINES really pushed me to believe it was a coaching decision.

As for the defence, it felt like a serious lack of communication. Also there was rarely anyone playing the man. This isn't a size issue. Detroit is a small team. Their biggest blueliner was Ericsson and he hardly outsized Pacioretty side by side. But Montreal played Detroit like they were bigger and didn't have much confidence matching them skill for skill. Detroit was very beatable. They let Briere carry the puck on them several times. But Montreal wasn't ready to commit. Nobody played like they were ready to win aside from the kids and a few veterans. The rest were either tuned out, or in Eller's case, wildly inconsistent.

I've been hard on Eller here mostly because I feel people make excuses for him based on what they hope for him to be instead of what he is, but Lars Eller really showed that he's a player begging for a good coach to lead him the right way. Plekanec and Gionta seemed to try to talk to him a lot but Eller was never getting the point. It was an experience issue. Eller is right in the middle of being a young learning player and hitting his peak. When Plek and Gio got into the Wings zone they looked like they had a strategy. Like they were following a play. Eller on the other hand was everywhere. He was chaotic. This would sometimes work in his favour as he'd get puck control or send the Wings in a tizzy because they weren't sure what to do. But other times, he'd completely ruin a play by not following what Plek and Gio were doing.

All of this points to a communication breakdown between the coach and the locker room. Or rather, the coaches. Let's go plural with this. I don't know for sure what's going on but I saw a team frustrated and showing very little loyalty. What happened to the shot blocking Canadiens? Why is Murray getting matched against the best forwards? Why is good play from Leblanc not getting rewarded? Why is good play from Moen not getting rewarded? Why are so many Habs players regressing to how we all know they can play? It all comes down to coaching. Price went from a top five goalie to tying a George Vezina record he didn't want anything to do with. Nobody is happy and nothing is working. No line combo is going to solve this problem. The fact Bergevin has done absolutely nothing is horrifying. The last trades the team made was in July. They haven't even attempting a waiver pick up. What is going on?

The Chicago game wasn't a bad team looking good. It was a good team being good. I truly believe that. But this team isn't going to work this problem out without some major work from the administration.

Almost entirely agree with your points.

THis is a very badly coached team. The Murray-Subban pairing alone reeks is so obviously stupid, its mind-boggling it was used. Two Gamees in a row!! On the tsn radio post game show, one of the guys (might have been Momesso - but not sure), made the point that on the 24CH episode, even Gallant was rolling his eyes during one of MT's locker room speeches to prepare for the Toronto game. MT seems to make very stupid/forced motivational comments. His "our captain was crying in my arms" speech even had Gionta uncomfortable as he denied it.

I haven't been too impressed with MT either. I've been pretty vocal for the last two years, of my feelings to sign SUbban long term. While most here liked the bridge contract, I hated, but can at least understand the viewpoint for the shorter term deal. But signing Briere over Jagr and passing on Jagr two years in a row seems stupid - to those that say, Jagr may not have wanted to come, Jagr said he wanted to over the last two years, and this year even said that he's been turned down by the habs twice.

As far as Eller, I think he is struggling like he has in the past when he is put at centre. With the exception of the start of the year, when he is at centre, he rarely plays with anyone with talent or finish.

[hab29RETIRED]

two goals in two games. 0 for the PP. this is ridiculous.

Some of you may have liked this game, or blamed the officiating at the end (which was absolutely bullshit) for the loss, but this team was getting tossed around, can't score, the PP looks horrible (that's on MT) and needs a changeover.

I look at what Maurice has done with the Jets and wonder what a better coach could do with this lineup.

We are sellers

Watching Buff today, man, could we use his size if we played him at forward. Even against Murray it was man against boys every time he was on the ice

May as move out guys that are UFA's and trade declining assets to reshape this team.

Definite UFA's to trade or say saynora to:

-Gionta for a 2nd rounder

-Markov for 1st, 2nd and a prospect (as much as I hate to move him - try to resign him in the summer)

-Diaz for a 2nd or 3rd or part of package (although with MT scratching him, his value is going to really decline unless he has a good olympics)

-Bouillon for a couple of pucks

declining/useless assets to move:

-Gorges - Prospect and picks or part of package for a big guy

-Bourque for new jock straps for Galleghar (he's the only guy on the current team who actually playes like he has a pair)

-Briere to Buffulo, so they'll have a known commodity and leadership for their rebuild

This should give us plenty of cap room and roster spots to remake this team.

If winnipeg continues to win and looks looks more like a playoff team, I wonder if we could get Buff for Gionta, Gorges and and a pick

[illWill]

If winnipeg continues to win and looks looks more like a playoff team, I wonder if we could get Buff for Gionta, Gorges and and a pick

Why would Winnipeg trade Buff for our scraps if they continue winning and are making a push for the playoffs?

[Chris]

We should be sellers,

To add to your list. Moen, Murray both of whom would fetch a second, or if you could flip them for younger better skating versions of what they do that would be good also.

[hab29RETIRED]

Based on what I've read from winnepeg writers, buff is a guy that the jets are trying to move. I think Gorges is a guy that could be one of the pieces they'd be interested in

Why would Winnipeg trade Buff for our scraps if they continue winning and are making a push for the playoffs?

[hab29RETIRED]

As much as I've wanted to move Moen in the past, I wouldn't mind keeping him for the FOURTH line. I also wouldn't mind keeping Murray for the 6th/7th dman.

You gotta keep some veterans.

One guy I did forget to add was DD. With his recent production, he should have value.

We should be sellers,

To add to your list. Moen, Murray both of whom would fetch a second, or if you could flip them for younger better skating versions of what they do that would be good also.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I'd flip Byfuglien for Gorges +.

[hab29RETIRED]

I'd flip Byfuglien for Gorges +.

Eller+gorges would probably be enough, but I'd be leery to make that deal. I'd want to see Eller with decent wingers first

[illWill]

Based on what I've read from winnepeg writers, buff is a guy that the jets are trying to move. I think Gorges is a guy that could be one of the pieces they'd be interested in

My point is that if a team that was way out of a playoff position is all of the sudden in the mix (8-2 since Maurice took over), they are highly unlikely to mess with a winning formula.