Jan.25th Habs vs. Caps 7pm est

[Meller93]

on the bright side, if MB stands pat, we'll have a top 5 pick!

I really think a huge problem is this dump and chase bull*^&%. That only works if your team is big and strong enough to out muscle the opposition, and sorry, that is not our team.

The weirdest thing is, the team isn't this bad. We have pieces here, we just aren't putting it together at all. Eller has been disappointing, even despite his lack of linemates, I expected more this year.

MB has his work cut out for him.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The team is not this bad.

No NHL team is.

We are getting absolutely dominated in our own end. That's not normal.

Something has to give and MB does have to do something. Look for a trade to come very soon. And if that doesn't work, the Therrien death watch can begin. And rightly so, because any team playing this poorly in its own zone is either not being properly coached or has a serious problem in the room.

[dlbalr]

So apparently yesterday's game was designated as one of the premium ticket games at the Bell Centre. This meant that ticket prices were about 40% higher than they are normally. Ouch.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

This team is not THAT bad, but this is what can happen when you rely on depth instead of minutes eating dynamic players. The offense is constructed with Max Pacioretty, and three lines of third liners/borderline second liners. Without a Sid/Stamkos/Joe Thornton/Ovechkin there's no dynamic centerman/winger to rely upon for nightly production. We have a Weber/Chara/Karlsson to eat 27-30 minutes a game, but we play Subban with Douglas Murray, lol. After last year MB made the issue worse by signing more depth in Murray and The Hero of the Quebec Nation exacerbating a morass of streaky depth players.

[Commandant]

The team is not this bad.

No NHL team is.

We are getting absolutely dominated in our own end. That's not normal.

Something has to give and MB does have to do something. Look for a trade to come very soon. And if that doesn't work, the Therrien death watch can begin. And rightly so, because any team playing this poorly in its own zone is either not being properly coached or has a serious problem in the room.

I went to the game.

Players who gave effort..... Bournival (#1 in this department, that kid was working his ass off even down 5 goals in the last 2 minutes).... Subban, Price, Gallagher, Leblanc, Beaulieu, Plekanec, Gionta, Budaj.

Players who looked like they didn't give a shit.... Pretty much everyone else.

This coach has lost the room... its not often that it happens in the NHL, and I was adamanat that JM didn't "lose the room" when he was fired... but Therrien has lost it. The Players look like the same team at the end of the Carbonneau days when he lost the room.

Making stupid decisions like starting the game with Doug Murray playing with Subban and being matched against their best line. Which meant with Murray as a Left D, and Ovechkin as a RW he would be in that direct matchup all night.... was freaking stupid... and players can see how stupid that is, and this is why they are giving up on him.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

I went to the game.

Players who gave effort..... Bournival (#1 in this department, that kid was working his ass off even down 5 goals in the last 2 minutes).... Subban, Price, Gallagher, Leblanc, Beaulieu, Plekanec, Gionta, Budaj.

Players who looked like they didn't give a shit.... Pretty much everyone else.

This coach has lost the room... its not often that it happens in the NHL, and I was adamanat that JM didn't "lose the room" when he was fired... but Therrien has lost it. The Players look like the same team at the end of the Carbonneau days when he lost the room.

Making stupid decisions like starting the game with Doug Murray playing with Subban and being matched against their best line. Which meant with Murray as a Left D, and Ovechkin as a RW he would be in that direct matchup all night.... was freaking stupid... and players can see how stupid that is, and this is why they are giving up on him.

You gotta love the two on one with Ovechkin and Wellman vs Murray. My dog knew that was going to be a goal.

[JoeLassister]

So apparently yesterday's game was designated as one of the premium ticket games at the Bell Centre. This meant that ticket prices were about 40% higher than they are normally. Ouch.

Glad I picked the Chicago game to go to.

[DON]

You gotta love the two on one with Ovechkin and Wellman vs Murray. My dog knew that was going to be a goal.

And Bobby Orr would of stopped em?

That goal was primarily due to Bourque's weak turnover and where was Murray's partner?

Glad I picked the Chicago game to go to.

Need to all chip in and get you to more games Joe!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Commandant, your words are sobering. Funnily enough, in one of the other threads today I also drew an analogy with the last days of Carbonneau. The team has not looked so utterly useless in its own zone since then, and that, to me, is a real danger sign that they're tuning the coach out, as they clearly had done then.

Martin was - contrary to common opinion hereabouts - a good coach, and I don't think he lost the entire room, but he did lose Cammalleri and a clique of related players, and he had also become the Demon of the Week by most fans. That was enough to make his survival untenable...although to this day I think it was ridiculous of Gauthier BOTH to fire Martin AND trade the player who most wanted him fired. Anyway, that's old news, unlike the train-wreck slowly unfolding in front of us.

[Trizzak]

Commandant, your words are sobering. Funnily enough, in one of the other threads today I also drew an analogy with the last days of Carbonneau. The team has not looked so utterly useless in its own zone since then, and that, to me, is a real danger sign that they're tuning the coach out, as they clearly had done then.

Martin was - contrary to common opinion hereabouts - a good coach, and I don't think he lost the entire room, but he did lose Cammalleri and a clique of related players, and he had also become the Demon of the Week by most fans. That was enough to make his survival untenable...although to this day I think it was ridiculous of Gauthier BOTH to fire Martin AND trade the player who most wanted him fired. Anyway, that's old news, unlike the train-wreck slowly unfolding in front of us.

Martin was a boring coach who preached a boring style, so when your team starts losing and losing badly then of course the fans are going to turn on you. As a fan, winning matters most, but actually wanting to watch your team play hockey is a very close 2nd.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

And Bobby Orr would of stopped em?

That goal was primarily due to Bourque's weak turnover and where was Murray's partner?

Need to all chip in and get you to more games Joe!

Gorges pinched in, why I don't know.

[Neech]

Gorges pinched in, why I don't know.

Gorges is one of the worst pinchers on the team. He's too slow and not athletic enough. Subban, on the other hand, has a great percentage.

[DON]

Gorges pinched in, why I don't know.

Ya, I know and just sticking up for the big fellow (and any d-man beat on a 2 on 1)

That was Murray's only -1 for the game also, unlike some other d-men.

Why he keeps getting tossed under the bus as a terrible signing/player/ etc etc, he is not causing team to lose nor overpaid nor lazy? He is being exactly as Bergevin described him and why he signed him in the 1st place.

Just noticed Murray has only 9 pims this year, which is surprising #. I guess he has had that 1 fight and just 2 minors.

[Commandant]

Ya, I know and just sticking up for the big fellow (and any d-man beat on a 2 on 1)

That was Murray's only -1 for the game also, unlike some other d-men.

Why he keeps getting tossed under the bus as a terrible signing/player/ etc etc, he is not causing team to lose nor overpaid nor lazy? He is being exactly as Bergevin described him and why he signed him in the 1st place.

Just noticed Murray has only 9 pims this year, which is surprising #. I guess he has had that 1 fight and just 2 minors.

Murray has been on the ice for 4 goals for... and 17 ES goals against.

Until the last two games he has also been playing the easiest and most sheltered minutes of every defenseman on the team.

Any stat you want to go with.... Corsi, Fenwick, Strength of Opposition, any of these... Murray is amongst the worst players in the NHL who get regular ice time. Just horrid.

This is why Murray gets thrown under the bus.

And with all that known (or all that seen by the players) and with Murray's lack of speed... playing him at LD and matching him against Ovechkin at RW (which started on the second shift of the game and continued all first period long) was utterly and completely stupid.

Add to this a Coach who benches our key offensive catalyst for the third period of a game we are losing 3-1 in Philadelphia.

Add to this a Coach who seemingly doesn't know that you are allowed to use time-outs at times other than immediately following an icing.

Add to this a coach who has a small team and continually asks them to be a "grinding team" from what we see on 24/CH.

And yes, I think the team is giving up on him.... I think he's lost them now. Which is pretty much what we predicted the day he was hired. A good stretch due to being a breath of fresh air from the last regime, but eventually he would be exposed for what he is. We need a new coach, a guy who can be a long term solution.

[dlbalr]

Murray has been on the ice for 4 goals for... and 17 ES goals against.

Interestingly enough, that minus 13 at ES isn't the worst on the team. That nod goes to Eller (-14, 18 GF/32 GA). Bouillon (-12, 11/23) and Emelin (-11, 11/22) are nipping at Murray's heels as well. I'm not trying to make any point here, but thought I'd mention Eller at least as I wouldn't have guessed that right off the bat.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Murray has been on the ice for 4 goals for... and 17 ES goals against.

Until the last two games he has also been playing the easiest and most sheltered minutes of every defenseman on the team.

Any stat you want to go with.... Corsi, Fenwick, Strength of Opposition, any of these... Murray is amongst the worst players in the NHL who get regular ice time. Just horrid.

This is why Murray gets thrown under the bus.

And with all that known (or all that seen by the players) and with Murray's lack of speed... playing him at LD and matching him against Ovechkin at RW (which started on the second shift of the game and continued all first period long) was utterly and completely stupid.

Add to this a Coach who benches our key offensive catalyst for the third period of a game we are losing 3-1 in Philadelphia.

Add to this a Coach who seemingly doesn't know that you are allowed to use time-outs at times other than immediately following an icing.

Add to this a coach who has a small team and continually asks them to be a "grinding team" from what we see on 24/CH.

And yes, I think the team is giving up on him.... I think he's lost them now. Which is pretty much what we predicted the day he was hired. A good stretch due to being a breath of fresh air from the last regime, but eventually he would be exposed for what he is. We need a new coach, a guy who can be a long term solution.

I'll take Murray over Chris Campoli, Brent Sopel, Alexandre Picard or Francis Bouillon. I'm no big fan of Murray's, I think he gets pinned in his zone continuously, but we're splitting hairs as to the expectations of a number six defensemen. The stats guys are always ripping number six defensemen like theyre supposed to shoot the puck like Byfuglien or Mike Green. If we're going to talk about the roster deficiencies, how about having one first liner? Or "the veteran core?" This roster doesn't pass muster, and we went into the season with a trash fire for a defense. The amount of time this fan base spends complaining about Murray, man, it must be a borderline conspiracy theory to distract fans from the awful and now unwatchable team they've asssembled. (Yes...its almost two years from his hire, MB did not "inherit" this roster, these are his guys).

As for MT, this is a bubble team that overachieved for eighty games, and now that they're coming down to earth, everyone is tear-assed at Therrien.

The 24CH reference that's floating around, most likely he was just trying to get more out of his players. None of that TV crap is beneficial to the team (or particularly entertaining) so hopefully this offseason they'll end the dog and pony show.

[brobin]

Lost the room... Nonsense... If he suddenly lost the room it doesn't say much for this bunch of players.

It is a slump...by the way..PK was asked about MT losing the room and he said there was zero to it.

[DON]

Murray has been on the ice for 4 goals for... and 17 ES goals against.

Until the last two games he has also been playing the easiest and most sheltered minutes of every defenseman on the team.

Any stat you want to go with.... Corsi, Fenwick, Strength of Opposition, any of these... Murray is amongst the worst players in the NHL who get regular ice time. Just horrid.

This is why Murray gets thrown under the bus.

And with all that known (or all that seen by the players) and with Murray's lack of speed... playing him at LD and matching him against Ovechkin at RW (which started on the second shift of the game and continued all first period long) was utterly and completely stupid.

Add to this a Coach who benches our key offensive catalyst for the third period of a game we are losing 3-1 in Philadelphia.

Add to this a Coach who seemingly doesn't know that you are allowed to use time-outs at times other than immediately following an icing.

Add to this a coach who has a small team and continually asks them to be a "grinding team" from what we see on 24/CH.

And yes, I think the team is giving up on him.... I think he's lost them now. Which is pretty much what we predicted the day he was hired. A good stretch due to being a breath of fresh air from the last regime, but eventually he would be exposed for what he is. We need a new coach, a guy who can be a long term solution.

Subban's short benching already been beat to friggin death and many would of done exact same thing, I would of (splittin hairs on smart/dumb choice).

Ovechkin didn't score vs Murray so your point is? That it was good choice by JJD to match em up?

You do know the coach is simply followed Bergevin's direction as to what kind of team he wants to see, a more "gritty" or grinding/blue collar team. I haven't seen much of 24CH and think is a bit goofy.

Should a $1.5m depth 100% strictly defensive d-man be playing 18-20+ minutes, not a chance, but when 2 of top 4 d-men simply suck at the moment, your options are limited.

And if you are looking at blaming Murray for slump or bad team play, a bit odd choice I think.

He is what he is and like I have said before, he provides more entertainment than most (both good and bad) and still think a good signing and would re up him for another year at $1.5 for sure.

And if you don't like Murray nor Therrien you will have a long time to complain, as neither is going anywhere anytime soon.

Which is fine by me.

[Commandant]

I'll take Murray over Chris Campoli, Brent Sopel, Alexandre Picard or Francis Bouillon. I'm no big fan of Murray's, I think he gets pinned in his zone continuously, but we're splitting hairs as to the expectations of a number six defensemen. The stats guys are always ripping number six defensemen like theyre supposed to shoot the puck like Byfuglien or Mike Green. If we're going to talk about the roster deficiencies, how about having one first liner? Or "the veteran core?" This roster doesn't pass muster, and we went into the season with a trash fire for a defense. The amount of time this fan base spends complaining about Murray, man, it must be a borderline conspiracy theory to distract fans from the awful and now unwatchable team they've asssembled. (Yes...its almost two years from his hire, MB did not "inherit" this roster, these are his guys).

As for MT, this is a bubble team that overachieved for eighty games, and now that they're coming down to earth, everyone is tear-assed at Therrien.

The 24CH reference that's floating around, most likely he was just trying to get more out of his players. None of that TV crap is beneficial to the team (or particularly entertaining) so hopefully this offseason they'll end the dog and pony show.

The MAJOR point is playing the 6th defenceman on Left Defence, and matching him against the BEST GOALSCORER IN THE NHL WHO IS PLAYING AT RW.

This means on every rush, Ovechkin is coming down the ice on Murray's side.

Given that he was having issues against weaker competition.... why the would you play him vs OVY

[Commandant]

Subban's short benching already been beat to friggin death and many would of done exact same thing, I would of (splittin hairs on smart/dumb choice).

Ovechkin didn't score vs Murray so your point is? That it was good choice by JJD to match em up?

You do know the coach is simply followed Bergevin's direction as to what kind of team he wants to see, a more "gritty" or grinding/blue collar team. I haven't seen much of 24CH and think is a bit goofy.

Should a $1.5m depth 100% strictly defensive d-man be playing 18-20+ minutes, not a chance, but when 2 of top 4 d-men simply suck at the moment, your options are limited.

And if you are looking at blaming Murray for slump or bad team play, a bit odd choice I think.

He is what he is and like I have said before, he provides more entertainment than most (both good and bad) and still think a good signing and would re up him for another year at $1.5 for sure.

And if you don't like Murray nor Therrien you will have a long time to complain, as neither is going anywhere anytime soon.

Which is fine by me.

The caps dominated all night and kept us pinned in our own end, so we only got our 4th shot on goal, when they had four goals in the back of our net.... And this is good?

Using a player who clearly isn't capable of playing top minutes and playing him against Washington's first line is a coaching decision.... and a dumb one.

Even Murray's biggest fans should see that there is no way he is capable of playing such a matchup... and I don't know if you noticed, but Ovechkin did get a point with Murray on the ice.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

The MAJOR point is splaying the 6th defenceman on Left Defence, and matching him against the BEST GOALSCORER IN THE NHL WHO IS PLAYING AT RW.

This means on every rush, Ovechkin is coming down the ice on Murray's side.

Given that he was having issues against weaker competition.... why the ###### would you play him vs OVY

That was a bad move, I made a comment about that pairing the day they were put together in practice. Therrien is running out of options but I don't think it's entirely his fault. I didn't look into the QoC, but my guess is that the sheltered minutes are going to Beaulieu when he's on the ice, it's tough to have enough sheltered minutes for all the horrible defenders of late.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Something I have stressed before is that our team defensive problem isn't just the players designed as defencemen. The forwards have been terrible at backchecking as well. You know how people scratch their heads and wonder why the Edmonton Oilers are not a better team? A big part of is that aside from Ben Eager none of the forwards know how to play defence. Jordan Eberle, Ryan Hopkins, Taylor Hall, Nail Yakupov, Sam Gagner... all one dimensional forwards. Imagine having a team of Mike Cammalleri's. That's the Oilers. And that's Montreal now. Only instead of being Cammalleri's they can't make a play in all three zones.

[KoRP]

I think it's really sad that some people on here are calling players human garbage, and commenting on Bergevin not having a high school education. It wreaks of arrogance, stupidity and ignorance..... arrogance by thinking in the same position(which you will never be in) that you could somehow magically get other GM's to trade us great players in return for our under performers. It wreaks of stupidity if you think a Harvard education = a Stanley Cup since our last cup was with a coach that was illiterate, and ignorance to make such an ignorant statement, because that's what it is. Human garbage? C'mon man! Also should add forgetful, you forget the last 20 years of mediocre teams, with no GM that could see we needed to rebuild not trade prospects like McDonagh, and not a scouting staff that picks ie: Kostitsin over Getzlaf, and Euro talent over Canadian heart as a "go by strategy", including drafting midgets over size and skill. That's just BS.

This team has had the same core of players for the last few years, Markov, Plekanec, Patcioretty, Subban and Price. Price and Subban are the only players that the Habs have that are true top line players, with heart, ability and passion, and the tools to make the Habs a perennial cup Contender. Markov and Plekanec are players that would give us a decent return in a trade, and would change the dynamic of the team the most IMO, and the culture of the team id what we need. There are no deals where we can trade our failed players for Steven Stamkos, Claude Giroux, or Sid.....

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, maybe not a PC statement, but accurately describes the Hab's biggest deficiency.....

The biggest problem is the Habs don't have enough Canadian players........ like it or lump it, mark my words, Bergevin will change the culture, he has shown and has said that he wants a hard working, tooth and nail competitive team, and although it may take a couple years, and that's what the Habs really need. More Gallagher, less Plekanec......

Edited January 27, 2014 by KoRP

[JoeLassister]

Need to all chip in and get you to more games Joe!

I do have a paypal account AND my "attending stats" this season are 2-0-0-1 at home and 1-0 on the road.

Just sayin'...

[Machine of Loving Grace]

KoRp you had me at the start but you lost me later on.

We need more Plekanec. We need players that play both ends of the ice. I love Gallagher and think he'll be the kind of guy that'll score a Stanley Cup winning goal for this team but what does Gallagher do without the puck? A whole lot of nothing. We need players like Plekanec who know a thing or two about team defence.

Are you saying the Blackhawks won the Cup in spite of Marian Hossa? In spite of Patrick Kane? Viktor Stalberg? Nik Hjalmarsson?

Do you know how many Canadians are on Montreal right now? 12. If you're totally fine with Americans and are just Don Cherry'ing it against Europeans, we only have seven European players. One of them is a back-up. You really think just trading those players for Canadians is going to make a lick of difference?