Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 LeBrun said Bergevin offered Bourque to all 29 teams in the league. I would trust him over any other rumour monger. We also got Parros from a western conference team... oh right it was Florida. And traded Kristo to the Los Angeles... no wait that was the New York Rangers. Seriously folks. At least get roped into plausible conspiracy theories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 They live a constant state of negativity, that way they always feel right. When Montreal wins a Cup again you'll hear a lot of, "Well it is just stats" and "I'm just happy they won" after driving a pessimist agenda. It's no healthy way to enjoy sports. I have Kings and Blackhawks fan friends who obsess on advanced statistics and do nothing but complain. Nobody is ever satisfied. Lovetts M and yourself I agree with. I get fans are fans but to spends mega time crunching cherry picked or useless numbers and thinking is of vital importance and those who don't agree with them...you are a moron or stupid with condescending LOLs. Anyways, fancystat guys seem to drag everything down a negative rat hole and take great pride in it seemingly and oddly, as also claim to be a Habfan? Sure trade may be a mistake, but unlikely of much significance, cept opening roster spot for youth and cap space leading up to deadline. Diaz maybe at best, could of got a 2nd round pick, which is an asset with 33% chance to even play in NHL, or take a big gritty guy who can hit a bit. skate and isn't real fond of Tortorella. Weise was, as Canucks announcers just said, one of best Canuck forecheckers and skaters, but just didn't see eye to eye with Torts and spoke out publically and Torts turfed him for a 2nd time. Not sure why,some think, Dudley-Bergevin-Mellanby- etc are total morons and are making dumb decisions (funny how some even said lack of education is a reason, to hate the Mgmt team, which is so lame and off-base, but some will use anything to make their point seem sane) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Did anyone happen to try clicking the cap sheet on the main page to see if it would open? Google changed their settings a couple of weeks back so I need to know whether this can still be accessed publicly or not. Brian I just clicked on the habs contracts on front page and it opened just fine, I assume that was what you wanted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Did anyone happen to try clicking the cap sheet on the main page to see if it would open? Google changed their settings a couple of weeks back so I need to know whether this can still be accessed publicly or not. cap sheet seems fine but does seem to be a bit of glitch on RH side of website once in awhile (a standard; "i this webpage cant be found", but webpage is actually fine at same time) and maybe have noticed for couple weeks? But no impact on function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Time will tell with this trade (as with all trades), Canucks fans are not exactly broken up over this trade, they feel they won it hands down form what I have read. I think it is quite funny that they have the Sedin Sisters up front and now the Swiss Misses on the back end. Poor Yannick Weber must be wondering he loses his job to Diaz and then Diaz shows up in Vancouver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Those "Sedins sisters" have been better than any two Habs at FW on our team for the past decade. Machine, your corrective is well-taken. If MB is doing his job and maximizing return, well, I've got no beef with him. Realistically, I think Diaz has a higher ceiling than Weiss, but as of right now it's a swap of two marginal NHLers. Purely on those terms it's not getting excited about one way or the other. If Weiss discovers untapped potential, we win. If Diaz does, we lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Brian I just clicked on the habs contracts on front page and it opened just fine, I assume that was what you wanted? Yeah. We sometimes have issues with shared Google Drive documents (such as the cap sheet) requiring a Google or HW login. When I got prompted for one today, I had a hunch something may be up. cap sheet seems fine but does seem to be a bit of glitch on RH side of website once in awhile (a standard; "i this webpage cant be found", but webpage is actually fine at same time) and maybe have noticed for couple weeks? But no impact on function. Can you e-mail me a screenshot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 What were the better offers for Diaz? I would like to know honestly. The way I'm looking at this trade is Weise is something we need. Are there other thing we need more? Yes. Were any of those things going to be acquired for Diaz? No. While Trizzak may be right that we had better offers from eastern conference teams, were the "better" returns something we were looking for? Or was it another struggling small forward? We got a 4th liner with size. This looks more like a preemptive trade to work on our bottom 6 to see whats expendable at the top 6 (Briere, Gionta, Eller, Bourque) to package to get the best return that meets our team's needs. I read this on twitter, I think from Arpon Basu. And it was written like it was said by Bergevin himself, so I think it's worth mentioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Also - does this mean we're re-signing Markov? Or do we see the two as utterly unrelated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yeah. We sometimes have issues with shared Google Drive documents (such as the cap sheet) requiring a Google or HW login. When I got prompted for one today, I had a hunch something may be up. Can you e-mail me a screenshot? tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HabsFanOhio Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I don't mind the trade. I have thought all along that the team needs to get bigger and faster. This is one step along that path. Diaz may be a better defenceman than some other guys we have, but he is not a legitimate top four D on a championship team, and his skill set does not make him a great bottom pairing D. Vancouver has a lot of injuries on D, but when everyone is back I doubt Diaz will play in the top four. He is not physical at all, and based on his entire time with us, his offensive skills are highly questionable. NEVER hits the net with his shot, and doesn't do much in the offensive zone. I'm sure we would have preferred a scoring prospect, or a big defenceman, but if the market was not there for guys like that, and we have no reason to believe it was, why not move a pending UFA who does fit into the long-term plan for someone your pro scouts obviously like? Waiting until the deadline might not make sense either, because Vancouver needed a D now. As to Weise, he's very fast (fastest player on the Canucks), big, physical, fights, and has decent enough hands to score well in the AHL and pot a few in the NHL in limited ice time with less than stellar linemates. Organizationally, he fits the need for character and team toughness, is a huge upgrade from Parros in terms of the bottom 6 forwards, and with White, Prust and Moen gives us a good 4th line plus one. People always underestimate skating as a tool; conventional wisdom has it that we are a fast team, although I think we get outskated quite often. Well we just got MUCH faster. It also allows us to waive or trade Parros, as well as Blunden, keeping Tarnasky in reserve as a 4th line callup. We also make room on the for either similar players in our system ( Nygren) or upgrades through subsequent trades. Championship teams often are built with small moves like this. What did you think when the Bruins traded for Kelley or Peverly or players of that type? Weise could be an asset if he plays well and is used properly ( big IF with MT coaching). Note also that it should remove the temptation for MT to play Briere on the 4th line, where he has no business being played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I don't mind the trade. I have thought all along that the team needs to get bigger and faster. This is one step along that path. Diaz may be a better defenceman than some other guys we have, but he is not a legitimate top four D on a championship team, and his skill set does not make him a great bottom pairing D. Vancouver has a lot of injuries on D, but when everyone is back I doubt Diaz will play in the top four. He is not physical at all, and based on his entire time with us, his offensive skills are highly questionable. NEVER hits the net with his shot, and doesn't do much in the offensive zone. I'm sure we would have preferred a scoring prospect, or a big defenceman, but if the market was not there for guys like that, and we have no reason to believe it was, why not move a pending UFA who does fit into the long-term plan for someone your pro scouts obviously like? Waiting until the deadline might not make sense either, because Vancouver needed a D now. Pretty much my thoughts as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Waiting for the deadline wouldn't have helped, if they continue to sit Diaz - unless he has an amazing Olympics. I don't mind the trade. I have thought all along that the team needs to get bigger and faster. This is one step along that path. Diaz may be a better defenceman than some other guys we have, but he is not a legitimate top four D on a championship team, and his skill set does not make him a great bottom pairing D. Vancouver has a lot of injuries on D, but when everyone is back I doubt Diaz will play in the top four. He is not physical at all, and based on his entire time with us, his offensive skills are highly questionable. NEVER hits the net with his shot, and doesn't do much in the offensive zone. I'm sure we would have preferred a scoring prospect, or a big defenceman, but if the market was not there for guys like that, and we have no reason to believe it was, why not move a pending UFA who does fit into the long-term plan for someone your pro scouts obviously like? Waiting until the deadline might not make sense either, because Vancouver needed a D now. As to Weise, he's very fast (fastest player on the Canucks), big, physical, fights, and has decent enough hands to score well in the AHL and pot a few in the NHL in limited ice time with less than stellar linemates. Organizationally, he fits the need for character and team toughness, is a huge upgrade from Parros in terms of the bottom 6 forwards, and with White, Prust and Moen gives us a good 4th line plus one. People always underestimate skating as a tool; conventional wisdom has it that we are a fast team, although I think we get outskated quite often. Well we just got MUCH faster. It also allows us to waive or trade Parros, as well as Blunden, keeping Tarnasky in reserve as a 4th line callup. We also make room on the for either similar players in our system ( Nygren) or upgrades through subsequent trades. Championship teams often are built with small moves like this. What did you think when the Bruins traded for Kelley or Peverly or players of that type? Weise could be an asset if he plays well and is used properly ( big IF with MT coaching). Note also that it should remove the temptation for MT to play Briere on the 4th line, where he has no business being played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 LeBrun said Bergevin offered Bourque to all 29 teams in the league. I would trust him over any other rumour monger. We also got Parros from a western conference team... oh right it was Florida. And traded Kristo to the Los Angeles... no wait that was the New York Rangers. Seriously folks. At least get roped into plausible conspiracy theories. a) This isn't a conspiracy theory, it's a common practice among many NHL GMs. b) It's plausible, see previous point. The Parros deal isn't worth mentioning, as we didn't send a player to them who could come back to burn us. The Kristo trade is indeed a sign that Bergevin doesn't have a total embargo on all trades within the East, but it doesn't mean that he wouldn't avoid dealing an NHLer to a team that he thought could hurt us. We have a rumour from Trizzak saying that he turned down better in-conference offers, we have a rumour from you saying that he at least was open to trading Bourque to any team. One doesn't contradict the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 People were claiming Bergevin refuses to trade in division. Not that it was uncommon but that he wouldn't despite having done it already on two occasions. The point about Bourque was from someone saying he was only trying to trade him to the west, which contradicts LeBrun. This was being floated around a week ago but again, Pierre said everyone was offered Rene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 People were claiming Bergevin refuses to trade in division. Not that it was uncommon but that he wouldn't despite having done it already on two occasions. He made one trade in-division, in which he sent a 7th rounder to Florida. That's not an asset that could hurt us. Diaz, playing in the NHL, could plausibly hurt us (not much, but enough to scare an easily-scared GM). Neither this trade, or the Kristo AHL deal, do anything to dispell the idea that Bergevin might be afraid to make major moves to teams in this conference (or division). We don't have enough info either way besides some rumours. But it's certainly plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Those "Sedins sisters" have been better than any two Habs at FW on our team for the past decade. . I am not disputing that at all just making a joke, too sutble again I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 It wasn't. Bergevin had better offers from Eastern Conference teams. I'm an idiot. Need to read better. This was not fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Weise is the type of player we need more of, fast as hell, and will drop the mitts, Diaz is weak physically, and that's the type of player we need less of IMO, Happy to see Diaz go to make room on the roster for one of our young guys.....Weise is a guy that we don't have on the farm to call up for 4th line duties, and an improvement over Parros because of his speed and overall game. We needed an NHL caliber 4th line, and we certainly didn't have it. White, Wiese and Moen is a decent fourth line, and leaves Prust for third line and higher duties. Good trade IMO for a younger player, to address speed, size and physical play without costing much. Diaz was due a raise he was not worth to this team, it's a good minor move, on a D-man that wasn't going to bring much, and wasn't going to be re-signed. I see your point,sort of, but I am really struggling to appreciate this trade. The phrase: " puck moving defenseman for fourth-line grinder" makes me queasy. God help me, I even agree with EOTP that this was bad asset management. I can't help thinking that Diaz with a couple of other pieces might have brought something to address our need for scoring nearer to the deadline. I don't think nailing Diaz's ass to the bench before we traded him was the best strategy for maximizing return value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan81 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I think this was a much needed trade for Montreal. We got rid of a player who for whatever reason had fallen out of favor with the Coach and was not going to see game action anytime soon(unless injury) and we received a younger, physical player. I am hoping that this trade was made to replace Bourque. Both players are on pace for approx same points and at least Weise is younger, faster, hits, lower cap hit and hopefully will crash the net. This maybe a good addition on a line with Eller and Galchenyuk when he returns after the Olympic break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 It's easy to sit back here on our computers, and totally dissect moves made by Bergevin. Fans have questioned his intelligence, education, and even questioned his long NHL career, and I for one Hab fan am really pleased some of you genius arm chair GM's don't work for the Habs organization, you're utterly ridiculous! Habs needed to get bigger, and faster and tougher, and MB did that with this move, with a player that is NHL caliber, that helps the team now. Where are these stock piled 4th liners we have? We have 3- 4th liners now, that's it. Briere, Bournival, Leblanc are not 4th liners. It's not like Diaz was ever going to be a mainstay with the Habs, nor was this a blockbuster move where we traded valuable pieces out of the line up for unknown assets ie: draft picks. Diaz's value is inflated by some of you here on this board, and I have seen enough of him in our line up. We got a player to address needs, we got a grinder, with speed, out of a D that could not stand up to playoff hockey, and Weise will pencil right into the line up and help us compete with his speed and physical play, there is no way it's not going to help. Minor move toward the roster and depth we need going forward with this management era, minor move, lets move on.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Lovetts M and yourself I agree with. I get fans are fans but to spends mega time crunching cherry picked or useless numbers and thinking is of vital importance and those who don't agree with them...you are a moron or stupid with condescending LOLs. Anyways, fancystat guys seem to drag everything down a negative rat hole and take great pride in it seemingly and oddly, as also claim to be a Habfan? Sure trade may be a mistake, but unlikely of much significance, cept opening roster spot for youth and cap space leading up to deadline. Diaz maybe at best, could of got a 2nd round pick, which is an asset with 33% chance to even play in NHL, or take a big gritty guy who can hit a bit. skate and isn't real fond of Tortorella. Weise was, as Canucks announcers just said, one of best Canuck forecheckers and skaters, but just didn't see eye to eye with Torts and spoke out publically and Torts turfed him for a 2nd time. Not sure why,some think, Dudley-Bergevin-Mellanby- etc are total morons and are making dumb decisions (funny how some even said lack of education is a reason, to hate the Mgmt team, which is so lame and off-base, but some will use anything to make their point seem sane) Very nicely put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 You have to think Montreal has a right handed D-man on their radar now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 How does this make Yannick Weber feel? hehe I like this trade. Big forward. 25 yrs old. Right handed shot! When was the last time the Habs had a fairly mobile right handed, bottom six winger, with size and some some ability to contribute? Kinda like what we dream White would morph into. I think this accelerates thing in the right direction. There is one more move coming. White & Weise are from Manitoba.. Evander Kane morsels? J.J. coached him in Hartford. He played with Prust in NY for 10 games. No Jr. Connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 You have to think Montreal has a right handed D-man on their radar now. Greg Pateryn? mmm.. Kulikov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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