GDT Feb. 4, Flames vs Habs, 7:30 PM

[habs rule]

We don't need another center. We need a top six winger with tenacity. Next season without Eller we would still have Plekanec, Desharnais and possibly Galchenyuk while Briere can also play down the middle.

And we are going to get a young big, goal scoring, top 6 winger for Eller? Really? I haven't that happen too often. I think our best bet is to work with Eller, we know what we have. We can keep on the merry go round of he's not good enough get somone else, or we can say he's got talent lets see what we can do. We have guys that need to go, Gionta, DD, Briere, Gorges. I would get rid of all of them first.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

And we are going to get a young big, goal scoring, top 6 winger for Eller? Really? I haven't that happen too often. I think our best bet is to work with Eller, we know what we have. We can keep on the merry go round of he's not good enough get somone else, or we can say he's got talent lets see what we can do. We have guys that need to go, Gionta, DD, Briere, Gorges. I would get rid of all of them first.

For just? Probably not. I could maybe see St. Louis unloading the very unreliable Chris Stewart for Eller +. They never wanted to give him up. Of course, that could leave us with a younger Rene Bourque, which Stewart looks like at times.

I still want to see Briere in the playoffs for us. Gorges I'd be fine packaging with a guy like Eller and see what we could get, though I also think people underrate the crap out of him. Gionta should get the end of the year with us.

The conversation about Eller is pretty much just like older discussions about Kostitsyn. Got some big Deja Vu. I defended the crap out of him when Pierre McGuire was saying he'd never be a goal scorer in the NHL but my bigger question is if he'll ever be what we're coveting him for. It's more realistic to me that Plekanec gracefully ages into a third line center role with two better centers in front of him (similar to Koivu though Plek is much better defensively than Koivu ever was) than him just falling apart. And until Eller shows consistency there's no way he deserves the minutes DD gets (who has been since December consistent). So once Galchenyuk is ready to take faceoffs, what are we gonna do? Play Eller on the fourth line? Because he won't deserve it more than the three centers in front of him. That tells me we're trading in a position of strength.

[hab29RETIRED]

Trading Eller now could end up hurting us like it hurt the Leafs trading Steen for grunts. I'd rather move DD and give him Eller's spot first. Playing with DD, gallegher's production has also fallen since DD seems to only have eyes for maxpac.

Eller's ceiling is much higher than DD, he's also faster, bigger, stronger and better defensively.

IMO, Eller needs to be traded ASAP before it is too late. People are saying that he would be traded in a low, completely disagree. Due to his age and a general perspective among hockey people the he will be a good 2nd liner or so, I think we can get more than we should for Eller TODAY. Will Eller be a useful NHLer? Absolutely YES. But the question is: as of now, is he graded above his real value? I think so! For this reason, it would be a great opportunity to get something more valuable than his intrinsic value.

Because we are not contenders, Bergevin should take advantage on this situation. Ship Eller plus someone else and get some real value for the coming years.

What has DD done with anyone except maxpac???

I keep hearing this "right linemates" argument and I'm starting to realize what they really mean is, "If Eller constantly played with players better than him". Basically, people want Eller to get the Desharnais treatment and attached at the hip of a player that makes him look better. Being a center with size it's enticing but the question you should be asking yourself is, is he Kyle Turris? Is he just waiting for everything to come together? "He could put up 50 points" what's it going to take? He stopped scoring with Galchenyuk and Gallagher. Gallagher is having a bit of a sophomore slump scoring wise but his play is still one of the best on the team. Galchenyuk was one of our best forwards when he went down. Galchenyuk is a better offensive player now than Eller is (he should be) and still produced with Plekanec and Gionta. Eller produced nothing with them. Who is the right linemates for Eller?

Funny enough, that last question? I want to see Dale Weise on Eller's wing.

I don't believe Eller would be considered selling when low. You're selling on his potential for a team down the middle. No different than when the Kings packaged Simmonds when he had only 30 points compared to 40 the season before.

That all said, I completely agree that Bourque needs to go and nobody should be saddled with him.

[hab29RETIRED]

DD's slump at the start of the year was much longer then Eller's and DD was playing with our best winger. DD has also been garbage in the playoffs, when there is tighter checking and more physical play.

For just? Probably not. I could maybe see St. Louis unloading the very unreliable Chris Stewart for Eller +. They never wanted to give him up. Of course, that could leave us with a younger Rene Bourque, which Stewart looks like at times.

I still want to see Briere in the playoffs for us. Gorges I'd be fine packaging with a guy like Eller and see what we could get, though I also think people underrate the crap out of him. Gionta should get the end of the year with us.

The conversation about Eller is pretty much just like older discussions about Kostitsyn. Got some big Deja Vu. I defended the crap out of him when Pierre McGuire was saying he'd never be a goal scorer in the NHL but my bigger question is if he'll ever be what we're coveting him for. It's more realistic to me that Plekanec gracefully ages into a third line center role with two better centers in front of him (similar to Koivu though Plek is much better defensively than Koivu ever was) than him just falling apart. And until Eller shows consistency there's no way he deserves the minutes DD gets (who has been since December consistent). So once Galchenyuk is ready to take faceoffs, what are we gonna do? Play Eller on the fourth line? Because he won't deserve it more than the three centers in front of him. That tells me we're trading in a position of strength.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Desharnais slump: October 1 to November 16 (1 point, 19 games, -2)

Eller slump: December 5 to February 2 (3 points, 27 games, -12)

Yeah that's completely untrue.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Great discussion about Eller. I can certainly see the argument about putting him with quality players, but at the end of the day I side with those who argue that it's up to the player to force the coach's hand. I still remember Koivu being put with Turner Stevenson and that line somehow being excellent - because Koivu was bringing it. Or look at Gallagher. He was handed nothing - he just took it.

Even Desharnais. I know, I know, he's bum-buddies with Patches. However, he is nonetheless a player who had all the odds stacked against him and whose skills ultimately forced him into the Habs' plans. He may have had Patches handed to him, but he put himself in that position against all odds.

At day's end, you're gonna win with guys like that, who force the issue, rather than with guys like Lucky Lars, who seem to say, "oh, gee, well, I can't be expected to make things happen, dontch'a know, 'cause my exact linemate configuration isn't perfect, etc., etc.."

What's been so frustrating about Eller is that for almost his entire time here, he has been a passenger rather than an initiator. It's that Ringo Starr syndrome ("just happy to be here") that drives me batty.

That said, I'm not saying to trade him. Not yet, anyway.

[habs rule]

I still want to see Briere in the playoffs for us. Gorges I'd be fine packaging with a guy like Eller and see what we could get, though I also think people underrate the crap out of him. Gionta should get the end of the year with us.

I have little hope that Briere will be much different in the playoffs, due mostly to the fact that MT will not use him any differently hence he is being set up to fail, either by poor coaching or the simple fact he does not fit the team and never shouldhave been signed. Gorges has a lot of value I think and would be a good trade candidate, Eller no. If you give Giont till the end of the year you give him up for nothing, that makes no sense. He won't figure into this teams long term future so he will sign with another club for about the same $ as he makes now. Markov will get us long term value I believe.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Eller's ceiling is much higher than DD

Exactly why do you think this is true? Eller has never produced at ANY level, from Frolunda, to the AHL to the Habs. For cripes sake, he was only a PPG player in the SM-Liiga during the lockout. DD outproduced Eller on the third line the year before Cunneyworth. DD was a 100 point player in the Q/ECHL, then he got 78 points in 60 games his last year in Hamilton. Lars Eller has never been a point per game player at any level.

[KoRP]

Keep Eller over DD is a no-brainer.... the instant DD loses 1/4 of a step in speed, he is rendered useless. Eller's size up the middle is essential, no matter which type of player he develops into, defensive center or offensive. Not two years ago we were scrambling to get a center with size, and now we have two, we can't afford to trade one. DD is a huge liability defensively, and nothing but a one dimensional player, Eller is multi dimensional, he can hit, is a great skater and has far more potential, to not only be better than DD, but last much longer as well. Eller could be so much more, especially with wingers like DD has every night...... Tell me how great DD would be with wingers like Moen and Bourque.....not! The points would dry up in a big hurry.

[brobin]

I would keep Eller if he will really focus on being a great third line center. He isn't going to turn into more then than unless he is paired with wingers who could do it with me playing center.

I would rather see DD replaced with a bigger, better winger. Chucky needs to grow into being a center, giving us Chucky, Pleks, and Eller. That isn't the highest scoring group, but they would be our best group in a long time. Replace DD and Gionta with guys more like Pacs or a Neal, etc and you will have a reasonably sized and skilled forward group.

[Habinator33]

I wouldn't give up on Eller just yet and personally I'd like to see how he does in the playoffs when he's not battling injury or concussed. That being said if he was in a deal for a clear cut top 6 forward that can put the puck in the net I wouldn’t complain much. Also to be more specific I would only trade him for someone that would help now and in the future.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

i think MB NEEDS to have a package deal in place for someone substantial. if we go back to Winnipeg for example

kane for eller bourque collberg ellis and 2nd rd pick or something of that nature.

habs look

patch DD kane (this line looks very dangerous)

galchenyuk briere gallagher (briere centering these 2 for the next 2 seasons??)

bournival plex gionta (a 3rd line that already goes against the opposition and brings tonnes of secondary scoring)

prust white weise/ moen (a real 4th line that can play 10/11 minutes a night)

a balanced lineup with room to grow..... patch entering his prime with DD as his robin! galchenyuk, kane, gallagher, bournival still scratching the surface of there careers while insulated with vets.

These are the types of deals that are going to make us better. trading eller isn't the question. who is coming back in return is! if your getting a kane back who is younger bigger faster stronger and has more offence...... of course you do it. but we will have to give up something to get a coveted player of this nature and at this point eller is the youth we should be cutting ties with not patches or the galleys or the D.

next would be sending gorges on his way for a right handed defender

subban R

markov

emelin

tinordi

beaulieau

pateryn R

murray

gorges

boullion

Drewiske

as it stands we have only subban as a right handed shot on def. this is a serious issue on the back end and is not good for team balance.

for example emelin 1 year post op with a right knee reconstruct playing on the right side means he has to force guys to the outside opening up to his right knee.

we need a righty ASAP

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Pateryn has been showing a lot of offensive flair.

Probably the next best choice for a call up

[DON]

Pateryn has been showing a lot of offensive flair.

Probably the next best choice for a call up

Possibly, Pateryn has ripped a PP goal from point in back to back games and with 9 goals is only 1 behind Andrighetto for team lead (which is kind of sad to say 10 leads Bulldogs).

Post Olympics I would bet the big fellow or Pateryn will get another shot to prove themselves, especially with Habs playing 15 games in March, odds are an injury will crop up or Markov-Boullion get moved (unlikely but?).

But, a RH d-man is likely on Bergevin's wishlist (Byfuglien), with all current RH d-prospects (Pateryn, Ellis, Dietz, Thrower, Didier) all not ready for 20minutes/game and most still years away from prime time.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Honestly we need to stop focusing so much on our PP from the back-end and focus more on improving our PP up front. Pacioretty and Gallagher have 7 goals each on the PP (Both in the Top 10 for their position) followed by Plekanec and Bourque at 3. Therrien continues to play Bourque on that PP2 and it infuriates me. We need an upgrade from that. If we could package for O'Reilly and not include any of our significant players (Plek/Patches/Gally/Chuck/Subban/Price) I'd do it. I really believe O'Reilly is the guy we should add to the team and I'm willing to pay the price if it. To have our left wing set with Pacioretty and O'Reilly would be a dream.

[illWill]

Honestly we need to stop focusing so much on our PP from the back-end and focus more on improving our PP up front.

This x 1000. It has been painful watching the PP for the last couple months. Every other team in the league and every fan in the stands know that it runs through the point. They send two guys up really high on the point and pressure 76 and give him no space at all. When he is able to find an open man down low, they just circle around or stand still, creating nothing. There is always a 3 vs 2 down low and our forwards/coach need to make the adjustment. There needs to be more net presence, movement and drive towards the goal with the puck.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

This x 1000. It has been painful watching the PP for the last couple months. Every other team in the league and every fan in the stands know that it runs through the point. They send two guys up really high on the point and pressure 76 and give him no space at all. When he is able to find an open man down low, they just circle around or stand still, creating nothing. There is always a 3 vs 2 down low and our forwards/coach need to make the adjustment. There needs to be more net presence, movement and drive towards the goal with the puck.

Our Top PP line, it's pretty successful all things considered. Patches is all about driving the puck and getting in lanes, Gallagher gets in the corners and in the front of the net, DD is all about finding passing lanes while Subban and Markov work the point. It hasn't worked as of late because of the pressure on PK. Our PowerPlay coach should be recognizing this and making adjustments.

I've said before, a big reason Cammalleri was successful in Montreal was that when PK's would match up against us, they'd have our back-end to worry about and Cammalleri to worry about. It would allow us to cycle the puck around and wait for Cammalleri to get a shot in slot. While Pacioretty and Gallagher have been quite successful themselves in getting goals (as I said, they are both Top 10 in their positions), the problem is that they are not the focus of the PP. Markov/Subban is.

I'd actually be in favour of trying something like taking Subban off the PP1 and giving the PP2 (with Subban) more time. Push a deeper cycle with Patches/DD/Gally and when teams are dealing with the forwards in front, that's when you can make a line change and they won't be ready for Subban, Plek and Gio. Might not work forever or at all but it's better that than the definition of insanity.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

i think its because our point is run with both points playing there off side.

to get that one timer back ala cammalerri we need to either put PK on his right side to feed briere across with the right handed one timer or markov as i suggested needs to go back to quarterbacking from the left. he needs a left handed shot on the other point for the one timer (reminiscent of souray) and another left on thee right boards patches for the one timer down low.

PP1

subban left boards patches right boards DD down low

markov and beaulieau point men

PP2

briere left boards plex right boards galchenyuk down low

markov beaulieau

[DON]

The Squid, uggg (talk about Diaz being soft, not as bad as that Toronto floater, he thinks missing 2 front teeth makes him tough)

[JoeLassister]

i think its because our point is run with both points playing there off side.

to get that one timer back ala cammalerri we need to either put PK on his right side to feed briere across with the right handed one timer or markov as i suggested needs to go back to quarterbacking from the left. he needs a left handed shot on the other point for the one timer (reminiscent of souray) and another left on thee right boards patches for the one timer down low.

PP1

subban left boards patches right boards DD down low

markov and beaulieau point men

PP2

briere left boards plex right boards galchenyuk down low

markov beaulieau

haha We see how Gallagher is a pest in front of the net. Imagine Subban !!!!!!!

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

i think MB NEEDS to have a package deal in place for someone substantial. if we go back to Winnipeg for example

kane for eller bourque collberg ellis and 2nd rd pick or something of that nature.

habs look

patch DD kane (this line looks very dangerous)

galchenyuk briere gallagher (briere centering these 2 for the next 2 seasons??)

bournival plex gionta (a 3rd line that already goes against the opposition and brings tonnes of secondary scoring)

prust white weise/ moen (a real 4th line that can play 10/11 minutes a night)

a balanced lineup with room to grow..... patch entering his prime with DD as his robin! galchenyuk, kane, gallagher, bournival still scratching the surface of there careers while insulated with vets.

These are the types of deals that are going to make us better. trading eller isn't the question. who is coming back in return is! if your getting a kane back who is younger bigger faster stronger and has more offence...... of course you do it. but we will have to give up something to get a coveted player of this nature and at this point eller is the youth we should be cutting ties with not patches or the galleys or the D.

next would be sending gorges on his way for a right handed defender

subban R

markov

emelin

tinordi

beaulieau

pateryn R

murray

gorges

boullion

Drewiske

as it stands we have only subban as a right handed shot on def. this is a serious issue on the back end and is not good for team balance.

for example emelin 1 year post op with a right knee reconstruct playing on the right side means he has to force guys to the outside opening up to his right knee.

we need a righty ASAP

given a negative reputation for this comment meanwhile..... fast forward less then 2 months later

we traded for weaver before the deadline a right handed shot

as well as tomas vanek ok so vanek wasn't kane but he still was substantial and winnipeg was to be used only as an example (plus i got collberg right)

then in the offseason we actually send gorges on his way and pick up gilbert!!!!!!!!!

i think this negative needs to go positive!!!