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Subban files for arbitration


hab29RETIRED

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I just got an alert from RDS.ca saying that apparently Subban is asking for 8.5 million$ per year and the Habs are offering 5.25 million$ per year.

If this is true, Bergevin is gonna get it from the media and the Fans.

I'm actually surprised Subban isn't asking for more. My guess is that if the Habs offer him 64 million$ over 8 years, he'll jump on it!

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Thanks, dlbalr said offer would be in half hour ago and was curious.

No surprise in those numbers.

Why would Bergevin get flack from fans?

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Thanks, dlbalr said offer would be in half hour ago and was curious.

No surprise in those numbers.

Why would Bergevin get flack from fans?

Cause he's making Subban a ridiculously lowball offer.

I don't want them to go to arbitration, cause if they do, our chances of losing Subban in 2 years will be High.

Just sign him to a decent number for a long term deal and get it over with!

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Another thing, Ken Campbell from the Hockey News is reporting the same thing. Also, he's reporting that Bergevin was asking for a 1 year deal.

I've got a bad feeling that if the Habs keep jerking Subban around like this, as soon as he becomes a UFA, he's gonna bolt to Toronto.

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Is that a trend, players who go to arbitration twice (which he would need to before he is a UFA) don't resign once a UFA?

Or does just ever even happen, cept with crap players?

Don't get this jerking around BS, negotiations seem pretty frickin standard and you are worried bout nothing, but is mid-summer so got to disagree bout something.

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I've got a bad feeling that if the Habs keep jerking Subban around like this, as soon as he becomes a UFA, he's gonna bolt to Toronto.

He grew up a Habs fan. He wouldn't goto the Leafs. If Subban found himself on free agency he's more likely to goto the Islanders where his best friend Tavares plays. It'd still hurt. Like a lot.

But this is arbitration. Did we learn nothing from the Eller arbitration? You purposely lowball in hopes that the arbitrator picks a middle number. Bergevin was never going into this with a number over $6.5M.

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This would be troubling if the news were true. 5.25 is, in my opinion, insulting and irresponsible. And if Subban really is asking for 8.5, then I can't for the life of me understand why Zoot doesn't take that number and multiply it by 8. Or, more likely since that's Subban's arbitration demand, give Subban 8.25 over 8!

Honestly, though, this smacks as totally untrue; the kind of news that came out last week with Eller and the apparent huge difference there before the kid signed his deal.

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This would be troubling if the news were true. 5.25 is, in my opinion, insulting and irresponsible. And if Subban really is asking for 8.5, then I can't for the life of me understand why Zoot doesn't take that number and multiply it by 8. Or, more likely since that's Subban's arbitration demand, give Subban 8.25 over 8!

Honestly, though, this smacks as totally untrue; the kind of news that came out last week with Eller and the apparent huge difference there before the kid signed his deal.

It's true numbers. It's what was filed. How you deal with the arbitrator is different to how you deal with the player.

Seriously guys, stop taking this stuff so personal. I doubt Subban is. Mike Johnson was called the worst player in the league by the Phoenix Coyotes during his arbitration and they still settled with him. Brendan Morrison was called a "mouse hitching a ride on an elephant to wade across a rushing river", saying that he was just the hanger-on of the Bertuzzi/Naslund line. Morrison played six more years with the Canucks after that arbitration.

Sure, there's also examples like Tommy Salo crying after Milbury insulted him and John Leclair being so pissed off at Bobby Clarke that he left the Flyers soon after getting his money but Marc Bergevin isn't Mike Milbury or Bobby Clarke. Think of it less like hockey and more like a court case between a prosecuting attorney and a defence attorney.

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Subban's offer is for a one year deal. His offer is just as high as Bergevin's is low. My guess is that we would be looking at 9-10 million to buy out more than 2-3 UFA years. I think Dlbalr said this, but I wouldn't be surprised to see 5/40 tomorrow.

I don't know about an insane deal for Subban. There's possession, and 25 minutes a game where the Habs will be in style, but a defensemen isn't a 50 goal or 100 point guy.

Yep, MB screwed the pooch with his precious bridge deal. Subban is simply too expensive. Free agency isn't what it was even three years ago. With the way Galchenyuk, and all the RFAs are progressing, there's no way they're going to get the Edmonton deals next year. Maybe with the bridge savings next year we can sign Winnik to a 4/16 deal.

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Cant believe all the hoopla and hasn't anyone read dlbalr's comments on any of arbitration #s/offers and how the game is played.

Seems many have 'lost it' and are spoutin fooliness.

HABS ARE NOT OFERING 5.75M FOR 8 YEAR DEAL, IT IS FOR A 1 YEAR DEAL AND ARBITRATION PERPOSES ONLY, OR WORST CASE SCENARIO.

and Subban will still be a RFA again next summer also and may go to arbitration once again, IN WORST CASE SCENARIO.

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You are right Don. This is all merely a negotiating posture by both sides. The good news is he will be signed by friday and if it is a 1 year deal then we have another year to negotiate the big contract. The sky is not falling, all you chicken little's take a deep breath and calm the fork down.

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Ha. One of the perfect reasons this community dwindles.

5.25M is *less* than Markov is making. I understand the arguments and counterarguments and the hoopla and hyperbole. But we're not dealing with Lars Eller here. Nor are we dealing with Morrison, Johnson, or almost whomever you prefer. It's Subban. Larger than life, ego the size of a planet, and probably one of the best players in the league now - and he's young. I get what MB is trying to do, but I don't agree with it - with due respect to all those who know more than me on this site - probably the vast majority. There are lines *drawn* in arbitration, and there are *lines* drawn in arbitration. This is the latter. Had the price offered by Montreal paid Subban as the number one Canadien defender, at least on a par with Markov's cap hit (i.e. 5.75) then I'd have no problem with it. This offer tells me - and Subban - the Habs still see him as #2.

Now, it may very well amount to nothing. You all could probably be right, as you usually are, but the potential consequences of this decision being wrong, by a mere 500k, because of ego, because of pride, could potentially be costly. There's a fine line between low-balling and insulting, and I have to think Zoot is tippy-toeing that line a little too closely.

Perhaps I'm not cutthroat business like many would feel the need, but there's a certain amount of respect you should show, even in a arbitration situation. I'm not sure this shows Subban quite the respect I feel he deserves. This, for me, smacks too much of business and not enough of person. And in the end, you still have to deal with the person.

Maybe he'll be signed by Friday to a long-term deal and I can take my chicken-little ass elsewhere, or maybe he'll have that 5.25 contract signed after arbitration if the Habs win. I ask you this, though, non-chicken-little-and-far-more-knowing-of-business-and-the-human-condition fans: if the arbitrator awards our #1 Subban 5.25 and he goes out and plays more than Markov, which is almost assured, how do you think the man with a very large ego is going to feel? Particularly since this is the second contract in succession which has been too difficult?

Now, you argue, the arbitrator could award Subban's number so shut up chicken-little this'll all work out. True, you are all probably right, but still, I can't see that 5.25 being forgotten next time around. Tell me, do any of you enjoy being low-balled?

No, no. I'm sure Subban will sign a long-term and everything will come up roses. But one has to wonder *if* the numbers are true what the effect is on the man, and forget the business. But you GM-types who would surely have Stanley Cups mere years after taking over the Buffalo Sabres would know better.

Probably, I'm wrong and there's nothing to this at all. Just a stupid comment from one of the many chicken littles who sometimes come to read the site hoping for intelligent discussion on the Habs. We should be ushered out the door to bring our utterly useless and without merit comments elsewhere, because disagreeing with the majority constitutes chicken little-ism and isn't worthy to this burgeoning site.

Humblest apologies for my most useless argument which has zero merit.

;)

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I'm not panicking...but there is some small and ongoing cause for concern that maybe the Bergevin Habs just don't value PK Subban as they should. From my point of view, and probably that of most fans, PK is a superstar, one of the very top players of his generation. It's never been entirely clear that MB or even Therrien see him this way; sometimes they seem to think of him as just a good player who needs work. That's where the wave of alarm over the 5.25 number comes from. We'll see what happens, but I'm not going to freak out before the situation resolves itself one way or another.

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Shea Weber is the entire pillar of the Predators franchise and they dealt with arbitration and an offer sheet.

Joe Sakic signed an offer sheet with the new York rangers in 97 but finished his career with the avalanche.

Drew Doughty, like Subban, didn't show up to camp because of his contract negotiations. He has two cups now.

Subban is a special player. How Montreal is dealing with him isn't. Bergevin is not the first GM to play hardball with a star.

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Ha. One of the perfect reasons this community dwindles.

5.25M is *less* than Markov is making. I understand the arguments and counterarguments and the hoopla and hyperbole. But we're not dealing with Lars Eller here. Nor are we dealing with Morrison, Johnson, or almost whomever you prefer. It's Subban. Larger than life, ego the size of a planet, and probably one of the best players in the league now - and he's young. I get what MB is trying to do, but I don't agree with it - with due respect to all those who know more than me on this site - probably the vast majority. There are lines *drawn* in arbitration, and there are *lines* drawn in arbitration. This is the latter. Had the price offered by Montreal paid Subban as the number one Canadien defender, at least on a par with Markov's cap hit (i.e. 5.75) then I'd have no problem with it. This offer tells me - and Subban - the Habs still see him as #2.

Now, it may very well amount to nothing. You all could probably be right, as you usually are, but the potential consequences of this decision being wrong, by a mere 500k, because of ego, because of pride, could potentially be costly. There's a fine line between low-balling and insulting, and I have to think Zoot is tippy-toeing that line a little too closely.

Perhaps I'm not cutthroat business like many would feel the need, but there's a certain amount of respect you should show, even in a arbitration situation. I'm not sure this shows Subban quite the respect I feel he deserves. This, for me, smacks too much of business and not enough of person. And in the end, you still have to deal with the person.

Maybe he'll be signed by Friday to a long-term deal and I can take my chicken-little ass elsewhere, or maybe he'll have that 5.25 contract signed after arbitration if the Habs win. I ask you this, though, non-chicken-little-and-far-more-knowing-of-business-and-the-human-condition fans: if the arbitrator awards our #1 Subban 5.25 and he goes out and plays more than Markov, which is almost assured, how do you think the man with a very large ego is going to feel? Particularly since this is the second contract in succession which has been too difficult?

Now, you argue, the arbitrator could award Subban's number so shut up chicken-little this'll all work out. True, you are all probably right, but still, I can't see that 5.25 being forgotten next time around. Tell me, do any of you enjoy being low-balled?

No, no. I'm sure Subban will sign a long-term and everything will come up roses. But one has to wonder *if* the numbers are true what the effect is on the man, and forget the business. But you GM-types who would surely have Stanley Cups mere years after taking over the Buffalo Sabres would know better.

Probably, I'm wrong and there's nothing to this at all. Just a stupid comment from one of the many chicken littles who sometimes come to read the site hoping for intelligent discussion on the Habs. We should be ushered out the door to bring our utterly useless and without merit comments elsewhere, because disagreeing with the majority constitutes chicken little-ism and isn't worthy to this burgeoning site.

Humblest apologies for my most useless argument which has zero merit.

;)

Jeez do you think that is maybe a little bit of an over-reaction? I don't think having differing opinions is hurting this site, that is what it is for. The idea that the Habs offer 5.25 suddenly makes Subban jump ship is ridiculous. I am sure that they have been negotiating all along and I am equally sure that the numbers thrown around in those negotiations are not 5.25 million. This will get done, one way or the other. When push comes to shove MB is not losing PK Subban. So all I am saying is calm down and let's see how this plays out before we start phoning 911.

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Just "Chill" as some 1st nations goalie once said.

I got feeling will do a long deal, but if not it dosent mean Subban will be a Leaf in 2016-17 or something crazy like that.

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We're not going to let him go for 500 thousand or something like that. It's a shame that among the top D in the league we'll be paying the highest salary (especially when we had a chance for it to be oh so different). Subban is right in the conversation for the top D-men in the league with Karlsson, Doughty, Pietrangelo, McDonagh, Weber, Suter, give or take a few.

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Honestly, I'm a bit surprised that the Habs came in as low as they did, they're using cheaper comparables than I was in my article. I thought there would be around a $2.5 million gap between the offers (6.6/9.1 was what I had in my head), this is more than that. That said, no one in their right mind should think that the Habs only value him at $5.25 M. They know should they get to arbitration, the award will be considerably more than that and Subban and his crew know that the award will be lower than $8.5 M. Arbitration submissions are about comparables that make your case and the award always falls in between.

There should also be no surprise that Montreal opted for a one year award (and remember that these figures are for one year only and do not reflect in any way the status or asking price of long-term negotiations) as going for two would have taken him to UFA and frankly, that's not a good strategy.

Before this morning, we knew that there would be a big gap between the numbers submitted on a one year deal so this should come as little surprise. That said, this changes nothing with regards to the status of the negotiations. This was a mandatory part of the process but don't think for a second that either side wants this to get there or that they're spending any time working towards a one year settlement. (Come 8:30 AM EST on Friday, that last part may change...) It may not seem like it but this is par for the course and really affects nothing right now.

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Jeez do you think that is maybe a little bit of an over-reaction? I don't think having differing opinions is hurting this site, that is what it is for. The idea that the Habs offer 5.25 suddenly makes Subban jump ship is ridiculous. I am sure that they have been negotiating all along and I am equally sure that the numbers thrown around in those negotiations are not 5.25 million. This will get done, one way or the other. When push comes to shove MB is not losing PK Subban. So all I am saying is calm down and let's see how this plays out before we start phoning 911.

Maybe re-read my original post. Then ask yourself about over-reactions. Also, your assertion that Subban leaving at this offer is ridiculous: that's words. Where is your proof? That is your emotion talking, nothing more. You have zero clue what his reaction is at being offered this amount. So your assertion of ridiculousness epitomizes the world perfectly. :rolleyes:

Also, "when push comes to shove, MB is not losing PK" precludes the fact that, if he feels slighted enough, PK is well within his rights to take a couple of one-year awards and then leave. Which would therefore mean PK will be lost to MB.

I'm not saying any of this happens either, what I'm saying is that it's a low-ball offer which borders on the disrespectful and could very well be cause for concern.

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