Guest Stogey24 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Yep, there is no question that Brodeur is a recipe for disaster...any time Price hits a slump half the city will be in an uproar over why the team isn't rushing to dress Brodeur. Brodeur has shown himself unwilling to be a good backup and accept his role, so he could leverage his Frenchness to mobilize the slavering, yapping jackals of the francophone press. Somehow in this city there is a legitimate risk of Price ending up as the Bad Guy Stopping the Greatest Goalie of All Time from starring for the Habs. This is, after all, a city that booed Saku Koivu after he clashed with that punk Mike Ribeiro. Carey Price deserves better than to be put in such a situation. Forget it. 100%. I can guarantee that is exactly what would happen too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 dlbalr says it's not guaranteed Tokarski gets claimed if he is put on waivers, but by the same token, there is no guarantee he isn't claimed. Not great prospect management if he is put on waivers and claimed, lost for notta. There's no guarantee that anyone would or wouldn't be claimed. As for prospect management, I wouldn't even qualify Tokarski as a prospect at this time. He turns 25 next week, that's a bit old to be classified as a prospect. (Accordingly, he will not be listed in the prospect rankings series.) He had a good month (if you combine his stints with the Habs) this year but there's no guarantee that one good month translates to any sort of guaranteed NHL success. Don't get me wrong, I like Tokarski and if you go through my posts in the prospects forum over the past couple of years, you'll see a lot of complaints from me that he wasn't getting enough of a chance in Hamilton. But let's not trick ourselves into thinking that he's a top-flight, can't-miss goalie here. If he pans out as an NHL'er, it'll be as a backup. Is it really the end of the world to lose a potential backup goalie on waivers? In this day and age where run-of-the-mill backups are really easy to get, probably not. Ideally, if they sense that Tokarski would be claimed, it would be good asset management to try to find a team to trade for him to get something in return. That said, it wouldn't be more than a token late round or conditional draft pick, that's all he's really worth at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 There's no guarantee that anyone would or wouldn't be claimed. As for prospect management, I wouldn't even qualify Tokarski as a prospect at this time. He turns 25 next week, that's a bit old to be classified as a prospect. (Accordingly, he will not be listed in the prospect rankings series.) He had a good month (if you combine his stints with the Habs) this year but there's no guarantee that one good month translates to any sort of guaranteed NHL success. Don't get me wrong, I like Tokarski and if you go through my posts in the prospects forum over the past couple of years, you'll see a lot of complaints from me that he wasn't getting enough of a chance in Hamilton. But let's not trick ourselves into thinking that he's a top-flight, can't-miss goalie here. If he pans out as an NHL'er, it'll be as a backup. Is it really the end of the world to lose a potential backup goalie on waivers? In this day and age where run-of-the-mill backups are really easy to get, probably not. Ideally, if they sense that Tokarski would be claimed, it would be good asset management to try to find a team to trade for him to get something in return. That said, it wouldn't be more than a token late round or conditional draft pick, that's all he's really worth at this time. We obviously don't have a serviceable back up in M.B's eyes or Budaj would have got the nod for the playoffs. If something happens to price again(hopefully not) we need a guy who can step in and win a multiple games , Budaj ain't the guy any more. A younger more athletic goalie with a better pedigree is waiting at the doorstep (Tokarski). If the kid has a good camp Budaj will be put on waivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 We obviously don't have a serviceable back up in M.B's eyes or Budaj would have got the nod for the playoffs. If something happens to price again(hopefully not) we need a guy who can step in and win a multiple games , Budaj ain't the guy any more. A younger more athletic goalie with a better pedigree is waiting at the doorstep. I think if Tokarski has a good camp Budaj will be put on waivers. It depends on what you're looking for in a backup. Is it someone that can play well despite sitting a few weeks at a time? Is it someone who can carry the load if the starter gets hurt? Budaj and Tokarski each fit one of those categories. In the playoffs, obviously the latter mattered more. During the season though, might the former take precedence? (It has in recent years.) It all depends on which of those two elements (plus whatever dressing room effect each has) the coaches/management value the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I think Tokarski is a definite upgrade to our backup position. He would allow Price to play 60-65 games and stay fresh in the playoffs instead of breaking the 70 barrier. Looking at the schedule, there's situations like at the start of December where Montreal goes on a western road trip hitting Colorado, Minnesota, Chicago and Dallas. That's a tough swing (it's followed by home games against Vancouver and LA) and the type of thing I'd much rather have Tokarski splitting with Price than Price playing in all of them. I won't lie, I hold a lot of sentimental value to Budaj and so does the team. Then again, the team really loved Huet too. They got over him quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I realize that Price's injuries in recent years cannot be tied directly to workload, but I still worry that we're tending to overuse The Franchise. That's two playoffs in a row where he is out of commission, and a player whose body is tired is more likely to get hurt. Therefore I favour a backup who can actually win a reasonable number of games. If that means Tokarski rather than Budaj, then it should be Toke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 But Budaj simply whiffed on a goal a game, it seemed, so if he was sent packing it wouldn't be a big set-back other than he seems a good 'character' guy. Will be interesting to see how plays out and who is dressed on Oct 8th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I realize that Price's injuries in recent years cannot be tied directly to workload, but I still worry that we're tending to overuse The Franchise. That's two playoffs in a row where he is out of commission, and a player whose body is tired is more likely to get hurt. Therefore I favour a backup who can actually win a reasonable number of games. If that means Tokarski rather than Budaj, then it should be Toke. Stanley Cup goalies based on the amount of games they played in the regular season: 13-14 Jon Quick: 49 games 12-13 Corey Crawford: 30 (of 48) 11-12 Jon Quick: 69 games 10-11 Tim Thomas: 57 games 09-10 Antti Niemi: 39 games 08-09 Marc-Andre Fleury: 62 games 07-08 Chris Osgood: 43 games 06-07 JS Giguere: 56 games The most games played were from Quick and Fleury. Otherwise none of the goalies hit 60 games. Quick was injured in 13-14. Thomas played with Rask, who was close to ready to take the starter role. Niemi platooned with Huet while Osgood platooned with Hasek. Giguere was in a similar situation as Thomas since Bryzgalov backed him up and played 27 games that season. That tells me that while there's nothing wrong with a goalie playing 60+ games, it's still really good to have a solid backup. Carey Price could play 82 games if he was 100% healthy, I have no question in my mind on that. I just wouldn't ever want to do that to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 At what point do you guys expect a decision on who's gonna be the #2 ? Before camp, during camp, after camp ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I guess I just figured it makes sense to not put Tokarski on waivers, in light of the fact management obviously thinks Tokarski is the better go to guy for wins from a back up position. Budaj doesn't just whiff on a goal per game, he is downright lousy in his career in the biggest games he's played in. I didn't realize MTL management is so low on Tokarski as a prospect/journey man, and I'm still not convinced. It certainly wouldn't take much to have at least as much value as Budaj, which in my mind is zero if you can't count on him to win games..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 At what point do you guys expect a decision on who's gonna be the #2 ? Before camp, during camp, after camp ? It will either be done as early as possible (the first day of waivers) to try to sneak one down or it will be after camp, waiting as late as possible. There is a third alternative that they carry all three as well. I didn't realize MTL management is so low on Tokarski as a prospect/journey man, and I'm still not convinced. It certainly wouldn't take much to have at least as much value as Budaj, which in my mind is zero if you can't count on him to win games..... I can't speak as to what management thinks about Tokarski. They may share the same view I have or something different altogether. That said, he was going to be entering his Group VI season (had he not signed for two years) and there are several 25 year old pending VI goalies every year that have a handful of NHL experience at best like Tokarski does (15 total GP). Most of them get through waivers without issue. Tokarski's postseason efforts make his situation a bit different but not necessarily to the point where teams will be jumping for joy that he's on the waiver wire. Very few teams need a goalie. New Jersey would probably be thought of as one of them, and their GM today suggested that they're going with what they have. There are a handful of other teams that could use an upgrade at the backup position but of those teams, Tokarski isn't really any better (in some cases, not really any worse either) than the incumbent(s). The risk of sending him down just doesn't seem that high to me now that the goalie 'musical chairs' have settled. Quite honestly, and I think this will surprise some, I think Budaj's more likely to get claimed if they waived him. He's more of a proven player and for teams with younger starters, the fact that he works well with Price would be enticing. Teams with a young, near NHL-ready prospect would also value the one year remaining on his contract over the two years on Tokarski. Budaj's numbers last year weren't great but he also had exceptionally low goal support (see the stat on the main page...which I ought to update soon, I put that up a while ago). If I'm a team looking to change my #2 situation, I'm probably leaning towards Budaj over Tokarski generally speaking. As for Brodeur, this is what his agent had to say about the Habs: "There's nothing going on right now when it comes to Montreal," Brisson said. Source: (also has the blurb about NJ's GM's comments on their goalie situation): http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/32466/brodeur-playing-the-wait-game-schwartz-blues-still-doing-the-dance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29habs3318 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 After reading so many great posts, I think it would not be in the best intersts of the team to sign Brodeur. Why is he not the back up in NJ? That is the big question. Why is he not leaving as a life long Devil??? The Habs have a good, young team on the rise here. Dustin fits in perfectly. Looking back on Brodeur last season, I remember thinking that he was moving kind of slow and looking his age. Do we want the hockey version of Brett Faurve in Montreal? Someone pointed out the possibilty of a soap opera situation with Brodeur...........this young team does not need that at all. Go with the great players that are now signed and sealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbigbear Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) If Brodeur is signed, I would be very disappointed with HABS mgmt. Damphousse is only chasing headlines, no proof in the pudding. Why would the HABS need an old backup with very little to bring besides "a few rings" and questionable "leadership". We need youth, not dinosaurs. Let another team sign Marty and let Budaj and Tokarski fight for the backup job. (BTW, I respect Marty for his tenacity but it's time for him to hang them up.....) Edited September 12, 2014 by bigbigbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 After reading so many great posts, I think it would not be in the best intersts of the team to sign Brodeur. Why is he not the back up in NJ? That is the big question. Why is he not leaving as a life long Devil??? The Habs have a good, young team on the rise here. Dustin fits in perfectly. Looking back on Brodeur last season, I remember thinking that he was moving kind of slow and looking his age. Do we want the hockey version of Brett Faurve in Montreal? Someone pointed out the possibilty of a soap opera situation with Brodeur...........this young team does not need that at all. Go with the great players that are now signed and sealed. He is leaving as a lifelong Devil... he just doesn't know it yet. Thomas and Bryzgalov are better options than Brodeur. His time to retire was after the SCF vs LAK. No team is going to sign him on his vanity tour to squeek out 12 more wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 Brodeur = distraction...so no thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 There is no potential signing of Brodeur. This thread is a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Bergevin said "I already have 3 goalies. I don't want to have 4. And I don't believe that Brodeur would come in Montreal under those conditions." http://tvasports.ca/hockey/canadiens/je-ne-peux-pas-avoir-4-gardiens-bergevin-15092014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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