habs rule Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Believe i posted this before. Tomas Holmstrom of the Detroit Red Wings never used to be a power play specialist. He never used to screen goalies, tip shots, slam home rebounds, and make dmen work double over time in front of their own goalie. So how did he become that player? Holmstrom credits his coach. Scotty Bowman had a dynamite team with good d at the point. Snipers on the wing but he did not a have a great net front presence. He picked out Tomas Holmstrom. Told him that "i want you in front of the net". "If you go behind it, beside it, or into the corners I wont play you". "If you stay in front of the net I will play you all night." Bowman saw a need. Figured out a way to fill it. The rest is history. That is called good coaching. If i was coaching the Habs with this garbage power play I would make Lars Eller my Tomas Holmstrom. That could actually work. Eller is the type of guy who would go to the net if they insisted that he do it. It could turn him into an offensive player. Hey I am willing to try anything. I wish Le Genius would try something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well...it's an interesting idea, but I just don't see Eller as a candidate for a job that requires taking non-stop, brutal punishment. I look at Eller, I don't say, 'now there is a player who is always willing to pay the price.' He's no Gallagher. I would see a guy like Dale Weisse as a much more likely candidate. But of course, if we put Weisse on the PP, the fanbase would immediately spasm with memories of Moen and Metropolit on the man advantage. That Therrien hasn't really blown up the PP suggests that he shares my assessment: this is a confidence issue. Since the guys he is throwing out there are reliably our very best players, his philosophy seems to be that they have to grind their way out of the PP slump - they have to find the confidence. That said, I rather like the idea of trying crazy things at this point. The only consolation I can see is that Pittsburgh's PP has been as comically impotent as ours. If nothing else, that's an illustration of how even superb players can develop a 'mental block' about certain aspects of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The problem is pretty much the players, I have seen 24Ch and never heard MT say I want you to dump the puck to know where, lose a bunch battles, don\t go to the net, don't move and stand around for the perfect play. A good PP is really pretty simple: Good entries Good puck retrieval win battles move your feet and the puck shoot the puck and crash the net. The habs do none of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Even PK Subban looks confused on the PP, especially when it comes to entering the zone. Sometimes I feel like I'd give my eye-teeth to see PK perform just one of those end-to-end rushes he used to specialize in. At least we'd have possession deep in the opposition zone at that point. Instead, he looks like he's going to try it, then goes to his backhand and either falls down or ends up coughing up the puck. At best we get a dump-in. It beats me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 That could actually work. Eller is the type of guy who would go to the net if they insisted that he do it. It could turn him into an offensive player. Hey I am willing to try anything. I wish Le Genius would try something. Yes if you watch Larry is is actually quite fearless and willing to put himself in harms way to make even the smallest of plays (along wall, behind net) ya know, unlike the the guys who somehow time it perfectly to arrive second the to the puck in tight spaces......avoiding the contact that would come from getting their first (playing inside) . Eller does not have that in his make up. It why he is a good play off guy....and others are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well...it's an interesting idea, but I just don't see Eller as a candidate for a job that requires taking non-stop, brutal punishment. I look at Eller, I don't say, 'now there is a player who is always willing to pay the price.' He's no Gallagher. I would see a guy like Dale Weisse as a much more likely candidate. But of course, if we put Weisse on the PP, the fanbase would immediately spasm with memories of Moen and Metropolit on the man advantage. That Therrien hasn't really blown up the PP suggests that he shares my assessment: this is a confidence issue. Since the guys he is throwing out there are reliably our very best players, his philosophy seems to be that they have to grind their way out of the PP slump - they have to find the confidence. That said, I rather like the idea of trying crazy things at this point. The only consolation I can see is that Pittsburgh's PP has been as comically impotent as ours. If nothing else, that's an illustration of how even superb players can develop a 'mental block' about certain aspects of the game. "this is a confidence issue" PK Subban never lacked confidence for one day in his life i will bet. Markov has been part of very good to great powerplays most of his career. Gonchar has the experience and patients of a brad park. Pax, Gallagher more than willing. If there is a lack of confidence perhaps it is with therrien in his own creativity and problem solving. He is hoping it just starts to get lucky. Sabres,Panthers,Canadiens pop gun powerplays. Say what !!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Even PK Subban looks confused on the PP, especially when it comes to entering the zone. Sometimes I feel like I'd give my eye-teeth to see PK perform just one of those end-to-end rushes he used to specialize in. At least we'd have possession deep in the opposition zone at that point. Instead, he looks like he's going to try it, then goes to his backhand and either falls down or ends up coughing up the puck. At best we get a dump-in. It beats me. If you just looked at Subbans play of the last 40 games. That mainly consists of one handed shoveling the puck along the boards, high flip passes out of the zone, punching guys in the back of the shoulder, and struggling with everyone else on the powerplay.................its easy to ask, whats up with him this year? Where are the big hits, the end to end rushes, pinching into the slot and down the wall, highlite real stuff. He is playing like a pretty solid defense man (seabrook like)...........not like a former norris trophy winning olympian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The problem is pretty much the players, I have seen 24Ch and never heard MT say I want you to dump the puck to know where, lose a bunch battles, don\t go to the net, don't move and stand around for the perfect play. A good PP is really pretty simple: Good entries Good puck retrieval win battles move your feet and the puck shoot the puck and crash the net. The habs do none of things. i have seen that show too................and i have not seen the players say no shoot the puck and crash the net, lets not move our feet and puck, lets not win battles, lets not concentrate on good puck retrieval and not have good entries. Players today want direction, they want a set plan, they have been schooled that way since pee wee. when the powerplay stinks this long and gets worse not better.....the person given the mandate to get it going............the coach. period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Weisse doesn't have the skill set to be a PP specialist. Doesn't have the hands or the skill. On a VERY good year, he may get 10 goals, but Weisse turning into holmstom, is even less likely than nugent-Hopkins turning into Gretzky. You can teach a skilled player to check, but you can't teach a plumber to score. I can see Eller or sekac, being able to develop into a PP specialist, since they have the requisite skill. But you do need to give them more than a 20 second shift in a game, to develop them. If Le genius can keep throwing pleks-dd-Maxpac out there for 2-4 minutes a game on the pp for over 1 1/2 years without success, you would think he would give sekac or eller a serious look. Well...it's an interesting idea, but I just don't see Eller as a candidate for a job that requires taking non-stop, brutal punishment. I look at Eller, I don't say, 'now there is a player who is always willing to pay the price.' He's no Gallagher. I would see a guy like Dale Weisse as a much more likely candidate. But of course, if we put Weisse on the PP, the fanbase would immediately spasm with memories of Moen and Metropolit on the man advantage. That Therrien hasn't really blown up the PP suggests that he shares my assessment: this is a confidence issue. Since the guys he is throwing out there are reliably our very best players, his philosophy seems to be that they have to grind their way out of the PP slump - they have to find the confidence. That said, I rather like the idea of trying crazy things at this point. The only consolation I can see is that Pittsburgh's PP has been as comically impotent as ours. If nothing else, that's an illustration of how even superb players can develop a 'mental block' about certain aspects of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Weisse doesn't have the skill set to be a PP specialist. Doesn't have the hands or the skill. On a VERY good year, he may get 10 goals, but Weisse turning into holmstom, is even less likely than nugent-Hopkins turning into Gretzky. You can teach a skilled player to check, but you can't teach a plumber to score. I can see Eller or sekac, being able to develop into a PP specialist, since they have the requisite skill. But you do need to give them more than a 20 second shift in a game, to develop them. If Le genius can keep throwing pleks-dd-Maxpac out there for 2-4 minutes a game on the pp for over 1 1/2 years without success, you would think he would give sekac or eller a serious look. for a year and half? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 for a year and half? It's been DD-pleks-Maxpac for about 1 1/2 years. Before that gionta was in the mix on the first unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Plekanec and power play should not be in the same sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 It's been DD-pleks-Maxpac for about 1 1/2 years. Before that gionta was in the mix on the first unit. Oh well as long as we are consistent . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 It's been DD-pleks-Maxpac for about 1 1/2 years. Before that gionta was in the mix on the first unit. Plekanec and Pacioretty have hardly played together this year, let alone last. These were the most successful/most used PP combos last year, you'll note that Plekanec and Pacioretty seldom were together (and not with Desharnais when they were): http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/2013-14/regseason/pp.html This year, they don't show up on the list at all - http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/pp.html To be honest, last night was the first time I recall seeing that trio together at any time. The commonly used one was Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher with Plekanec (and last year, Gionta) on the 2nd unit. The only real time Pacioretty and Plekanec have played together is in 4-on-4 situations, primarily shorthanded. Edit: Here's a listing of the top used combinations at any time this season, Pacioretty-Desharnais-Plekanec isn't on the list and as a result, can't have played more than 21:51 as a trio all year. That's not a regular PP unit at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Eller, no, but I like the idea of trying Sekac more on the PP. He's a big, strong body of uncertain offensive upside. Shows a lot of grit. What the heck, give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Eller, no, but I like the idea of trying Sekac more on the PP. He's a big, strong body of uncertain offensive upside. Shows a lot of grit. What the heck, give it a go. Sure Sekac someone anyone for crying out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Gallagher (4:54) & Galchenyuk (4:37) led PP time. Sekac 0:01 & Eller 0:33 (my choice for change up forwards) (Hamilton also 0 for on PP almost every game and simply are horrendous also for 3rd year in a row I think, whatever is 'master-plan' for franchise aint working well. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Gallagher (4:54) & Galchenyuk (4:37) led PP time. Sekac 0:01 & Eller 0:33 (my choice for change up forwards) (Hamilton also 0 for on PP almost every game and simply are horrendous also for 3rd year in a row I think, whatever is 'master-plan' for franchise aint working well. ) Well the AHL club usually takes it's direction from the big club as to how they develop prospects, so yeah if they are trying the same thing in Hamilton it makes sense that their power play sucks as well. Every team goes through Power play slumps look at Pits Pens ( try saying that 3 times in a row fast), but we been downward trending for 3 years, that is not a slump, that is a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well the AHL club usually takes it's direction from the big club as to how they develop prospects, so yeah if they are trying the same thing in Hamilton it makes sense that their power play sucks as well. Every team goes through Power play slumps look at Pits Pens ( try saying that 3 times in a row fast), but we been downward trending for 3 years, that is not a slump, that is a disaster. Montreal's PP last night is actually better than what Hamilton pulled off today - they had a lengthy 5-on-3 and instead of scoring, took a penalty. At least the Habs avoided taking penalties with the man advantage...that's how low the bar is right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Believe i posted this before. Tomas Holmstrom of the Detroit Red Wings never used to be a power play specialist. He never used to screen goalies, tip shots, slam home rebounds, and make dmen work double over time in front of their own goalie. So how did he become that player? Holmstrom credits his coach. Scotty Bowman had a dynamite team with good d at the point. Snipers on the wing but he did not a have a great net front presence. He picked out Tomas Holmstrom. Told him that "i want you in front of the net". "If you go behind it, beside it, or into the corners I wont play you". "If you stay in front of the net I will play you all night." Bowman saw a need. Figured out a way to fill it. The rest is history. That is called good coaching. If i was coaching the Habs with this garbage power play I would make Lars Eller my Tomas Holmstrom. Therrien is no Scotty Bowman... fire him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Montreal's PP last night is actually better than what Hamilton pulled off today - they had a lengthy 5-on-3 and instead of scoring, took a penalty. At least the Habs avoided taking penalties with the man advantage...that's how low the bar is right now. So things are looking up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 OIlers-Sabres-Panthers and Habs battle for worst PP... but Oil-Habs-Panthers basically tied bout 13.5% and Sabres at 9.2% are almost uncatchable! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Plekanec and power play should not be in the same sentence That is for sure. Pleks practically led the league in ice time last year for all forwards. Marleau and one other had a slightly more. MT uses him like he is Mark Messier. Therrien is no Scotty Bowman... fire him! no no. just have him do SOMETHING different with a power play. Tall order for him I know. But hey give him a chance. His limited coaching abilities and being nowhere near scottys league is common knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Therrien is no Scotty Bowman... fire him! OK but we have no french speaking coach to replace him, and I think Scotty is a little beyond his best before date. Who did you have in mind? Babcock can't speak french so he's out. Maybe if Julien gets fired in Boston we could try him again. Villie in NY is pretty solid I think. No I think you are being a little hasty. We should maybe wait till the off season. I really think we need a power play guru myself. I agree with you, he is no Scotty Bowman but then who is. I am really surprised that you want to fire him considering the results he has had in salvaging this team from a last place team to a play off juggernaught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Eller, no, but I like the idea of trying Sekac more on the PP. He's a big, strong body of uncertain offensive upside. Shows a lot of grit. What the heck, give it a go. i second trying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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