Carey Price..Hart Trophy?

[Habs30/31]

Popular opinion topic, always reminds me of a witty old drunkard brit quote;

"There is no such thing as popular opinion. There is only published opinion."

Winston C.

great line. thanks

All I can say is that I'm really happy we have Carey Price. I was thinking last game how I as a fan am so much more calm when he's in net. I'm fine living without that "cardiac kids" feeling until the playoffs. Tokarski is great and all but it's a different feeling for me when he's in net.

As for the topic. I still think it's very unlikely that he wins the Hart but the more time has been passing by the more he has given people a reason to discuss him as a candidate this year. That's for sure.

Call me crazy, but I think Crosby would have at least as much of a chance of bringing a cup to Montreal as Price does. If not more. I still think Crosby is probably the second best player ever and he knows how to win. He's quietly 4th in league scoring and it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up winning the race. Might not win the Hart "because he has Malkin". There are lot of good reasons that some elite players shouldn't win the Hart I guess.

well said.

[Colin]

Remember when half the posters on this board wanted to keep Halak. Good times, good times.

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

As someone old enough to remember watching Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes, I disagree about Crosby.

Crosby's a great player, and in style, he reminds me a bit of Lemieux. He has the raw talent to occasionally break a game wide open, though less so than Lemieux ever had. If Crosby had Lemieux's skill, Perron and Kunitz would look like superstars. Those guys have more talent than Tocchet and Stevens ever did, but they don't appear half as dangerous.

None of them hold a candle to the way Wayne Gretzky, in his prime, controlled the flow of a game. Advanced stats junkies would have had a field day with Gretzky's Corsi and Fenwick numbers if anyone had kept them back in the 80's. Other talented players could be trusted to play well. Gretzky didn't just play well. Sure he had wickedly soft hands, and incredible accuracy, but that's not the point. It wasn't his skill - which was considerable, but not unique. It was his... vision, for lack of a better word. Not eyesight, but foresight. He was like a grandmaster chess player, always knowing what was coming next and being in the right spot for it. There was nothing opponents could do about him, because whatever they tried, he knew they were going to try it. He set up shop in the opposing team's end and never left. Soft in his own zone? Maybe. Except he never let it stay in his own zone long enough for this to be an issue. He'd be there to intercept a pass, or gobble up an occasional rebound. There are those that try to argue if Lemieux had been healthy, he'd have been better than Gretzky. Those people never really watched the differences in how they played. Lemieux had more speed, a better shot, and was more physical. He was more talented, and that's where the confusion lies, because there's not a player ever - alive or dead, who even had a tenth of Gretzky's hockey smarts. When it came to who's going to make your team better, Gretzky was twice as effective as his closest competition. Gretzky was a savant .... Einstein and Hawking and Newton's genius simultaneously in one head and focused on Hockey instead of the universe around him.

And that doesn't touch guys like Bobby Orr, who was simultaneously the best offensive defenseman and defensive defenseman ever to play the game.

Crosby's the best player of a generation. Perhaps even two generations. But those two generations are a step below the ones who came before.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Agreed on Gretzky. He saw the game in a way nobody has since or prior. Too often you hear about him being protected but nobody discusses the dozen or so hits he would evade every game in the early eighties just through vision and finesse. I watched one game where he was in his office in the back of the net and two defencemen couldn't catch him. He was standing still and they couldn't knock him off that puck. Seriously go watch some Gretzky from back in the day. He was brilliant.

There's one other thing Gretzky could do that to this day nobody else does. He could switch direction in mid flight without losing speed. He did it so many times. Most players have to stop or make a 180 but Wayne just turned and was still going. Just unreal.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

back to price with all that said we have

price, subban markov and patches... that could very well be the best 4 combo in the league and id like to see a team match up?

lunquist mcdonaugh nash girardi

rinne weber jones forsberg

crawford keith toews Kane

stamkos johnson hedman bishop

kopitar doughty quick carter

crosby malkin letang fleury

tavares oposko boychuk halak

rask hamilton chara bergeron lol

the habs have arguably the best goalie in hockey... but his supporting cast just never gets the props they deserve... we are a damn good deep hockey team... yes we start notoriously slow in the first but we are the best hockey club in the 3rd.... and most games are won in the 3rd, very few in the 1st.

[Habs30/31]

As someone old enough to remember watching Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes, I disagree about Crosby.

Crosby's a great player, and in style, he reminds me a bit of Lemieux. He has the raw talent to occasionally break a game wide open, though less so than Lemieux ever had. If Crosby had Lemieux's skill, Perron and Kunitz would look like superstars. Those guys have more talent than Tocchet and Stevens ever did, but they don't appear half as dangerous.

None of them hold a candle to the way Wayne Gretzky, in his prime, controlled the flow of a game. Advanced stats junkies would have had a field day with Gretzky's Corsi and Fenwick numbers if anyone had kept them back in the 80's. Other talented players could be trusted to play well. Gretzky didn't just play well. Sure he had wickedly soft hands, and incredible accuracy, but that's not the point. It wasn't his skill - which was considerable, but not unique. It was his... vision, for lack of a better word. Not eyesight, but foresight. He was like a grandmaster chess player, always knowing what was coming next and being in the right spot for it. There was nothing opponents could do about him, because whatever they tried, he knew they were going to try it. He set up shop in the opposing team's end and never left. Soft in his own zone? Maybe. Except he never let it stay in his own zone long enough for this to be an issue. He'd be there to intercept a pass, or gobble up an occasional rebound. There are those that try to argue if Lemieux had been healthy, he'd have been better than Gretzky. Those people never really watched the differences in how they played. Lemieux had more speed, a better shot, and was more physical. He was more talented, and that's where the confusion lies, because there's not a player ever - alive or dead, who even had a tenth of Gretzky's hockey smarts. When it came to who's going to make your team better, Gretzky was twice as effective as his closest competition. Gretzky was a savant .... Einstein and Hawking and Newton's genius simultaneously in one head and focused on Hockey instead of the universe around him.

And that doesn't touch guys like Bobby Orr, who was simultaneously the best offensive defenseman and defensive defenseman ever to play the game.

Crosby's the best player of a generation. Perhaps even two generations. But those two generations are a step below the ones who came before.

Could not have said it better. Really great post.

[Habs30/31]

Agreed on Gretzky. He saw the game in a way nobody has since or prior. Too often you hear about him being protected but nobody discusses the dozen or so hits he would evade every game in the early eighties just through vision and finesse. I watched one game where he was in his office in the back of the net and two defencemen couldn't catch him. He was standing still and they couldn't knock him off that puck. Seriously go watch some Gretzky from back in the day. He was brilliant.

There's one other thing Gretzky could do that to this day nobody else does. He could switch direction in mid flight without losing speed. He did it so many times. Most players have to stop or make a 180 but Wayne just turned and was still going. Just unreal.

yes he was like a waterbug out there.

[KoRP]

Price isn't letting up much.... making his case for MVP stronger with nearly every outing 12-1-1 over his last 14 starts.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/gameplus-carey-prices-best-saves-season/

[Habs30/31]

Yep. Leading candidate. His numbers in 015 are off the charts. Habs among lowest scoring teams on the road (bottom 3) yet Price has won a record setting 9 straight on the road! Plante, Dryden, Roy never did that. wow

MVP ? UHHHH YEA

[DON]

Will Subban get his 2nd Norris?

[KoRP]

Will Subban get his 2nd Norris?

Damn... you know, that's a legit question Don.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Will Subban get his 2nd Norris?

Giordano is winning it. Weber is getting nominated because the best defence in the league needs a representative. After that it's anyone's game after Shattenkirk got injured for final nomination.

[illWill]

Will Subban get his 2nd Norris?

I was thinking that just the other day. He is on pace for a career year in points, which may very well win the Dman scoring race. He is the anchor on the #1 defensive team in the league, which is also currently #1 in their Conference.

So who is his competition? Giordano is having a stellar year and is perhaps the front runner so far. But can someone win the Norris if their team doesn't make the playoffs? I'm not sure if it's happened or if he is that far ahead of the pack that it doesn't matter. Weber is a perennial candidate but his teammate Josi is right there with him in each offensive category. I know that it is a "defensive" trophy, but offense has proved to be very important in past selections. Big Buff is having a good year but he plays forward at times. Letang seems to be quietly having a good year but I can't see him winning the trophy, since his numbers are assumed to be a by-product of playing with 87 and 71. Keith and Doughty may make a push towards the last quarter of the season. But I would hope that if Subban keeps playing as good as he has been, he will at least get a nomination.

[Habs30/31]

I was thinking that just the other day. He is on pace for a career year in points, which may very well win the Dman scoring race. He is the anchor on the #1 defensive team in the league, which is also currently #1 in their Conference.

So who is his competition? Giordano is having a stellar year and is perhaps the front runner so far. But can someone win the Norris if their team doesn't make the playoffs? I'm not sure if it's happened or if he is that far ahead of the pack that it doesn't matter. Weber is a perennial candidate but his teammate Josi is right there with him in each offensive category. I know that it is a "defensive" trophy, but offense has proved to be very important in past selections. Big Buff is having a good year but he plays forward at times. Letang seems to be quietly having a good year but I can't see him winning the trophy, since his numbers are assumed to be a by-product of playing with 87 and 71. Keith and Doughty may make a push towards the last quarter of the season. But I would hope that if Subban keeps playing as good as he has been, he will at least get a nomination.

Giordano would have to fall off the planet to lose it. Subban should be nominated I would think. Although he had a slow first quarter.

Giordano would have to fall off the planet to lose it. Subban should be nominated I would think. Although he had a slow first quarter. I like Doughty too but he never gets as much credit as he deserves. Weber best d in the league will be one of the top three nominees.

[Habs30/31]

Will Subban get his 2nd Norris?

Deserving of heavy consideration.

No more comments shooting down price for Hart??

[illWill]

Deserving of heavy consideration.

No more comments shooting down price for Hart??

As things are going right now he has a great shot at winning, although there is still a ton of hockey left to be played. I remember the year Perry won it, he ripped it up at the end of the year, coming out of nowhere to win it. So far, there hasn't been many forwards that have stood out from the rest to be seriously considered.

[DON]

Sorry to side track thread, I guess could have a Subban one?

Well, Kane is out of MVP race and Price is still doing great, but still feel NHL will do what it can to give award to a skater, as Vezina (kinda like Norris) basically already goes to best of select group of 30 guys.

But keep your Pom Poms out, if Price finishes strong his numbers will just be too hard to ignore.

[Habs30/31]

Sorry to side track thread, I guess could have a Subban one?

Well, Kane is out of MVP race and Price is still doing great, but still feel NHL will do what it can to give award to a skater, as Vezina (kinda like Norris) basically already goes to best of select group of 30 guys.

But keep your Pom Poms out, if Price finishes strong his numbers will just be too hard to ignore.

Cool.

No "pom poms out" just my prediction. That was scoffed at nowhere else but here.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Here's the thing.

Price could deserve the Hart as the most valuable player to his team in the league.

But Hart voting has a lot of people who hate voting for goalies and if both Price and Rinne get nominated then it's gonna split the vote. That means whatever forward that gets nominated will win. Theodore was the obvious Hart choice but he still had to win a tie-breaker over Jarome Iginla. Add Rinne and all of the Western Conference biased writers are gonna take votes away from Price and the goalie haters won't vote for him at all.

[DON]

Not scoffed at, just same as pitcher in MLB, league tends to avoid doubling down with Cy Young and MVP, that's all.

[Habs30/31]

As things are going right now he has a great shot at winning, although there is still a ton of hockey left to be played. I remember the year Perry won it, he ripped it up at the end of the year, coming out of nowhere to win it. So far, there hasn't been many forwards that have stood out from the rest to be seriously considered.

like i said

[habs rule]

like i said

You may be end up being right on this one, but I still hope he wins the con smythe. Now if he also gets the Hart and the Vezina, bonuses upon bonuses.

[ICEWATER77]

Price, Ovie, Tavares, Nash, Crosby..in that order right now(with Kane out)..and Rinne somewhere in there

[Habs30/31]

You may be end up being right on this one, but I still hope he wins the con smythe. Now if he also gets the Hart and the Vezina, bonuses upon bonuses.

Ah yes, the Con Smythe is THE player trophy of all trophies.

Would not care if he was left off the ballot for Hart, if he wins Con Smythe. Agreed.

Price, Ovie, Tavares, Nash, Crosby..in that order right now(with Kane out)..and Rinne somewhere in there

Sounds about right.

[Habsfan]

As someone old enough to remember watching Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes, I disagree about Crosby.

Crosby's a great player, and in style, he reminds me a bit of Lemieux. He has the raw talent to occasionally break a game wide open, though less so than Lemieux ever had. If Crosby had Lemieux's skill, Perron and Kunitz would look like superstars. Those guys have more talent than Tocchet and Stevens ever did, but they don't appear half as dangerous.

None of them hold a candle to the way Wayne Gretzky, in his prime, controlled the flow of a game. Advanced stats junkies would have had a field day with Gretzky's Corsi and Fenwick numbers if anyone had kept them back in the 80's. Other talented players could be trusted to play well. Gretzky didn't just play well. Sure he had wickedly soft hands, and incredible accuracy, but that's not the point. It wasn't his skill - which was considerable, but not unique. It was his... vision, for lack of a better word. Not eyesight, but foresight. He was like a grandmaster chess player, always knowing what was coming next and being in the right spot for it. There was nothing opponents could do about him, because whatever they tried, he knew they were going to try it. He set up shop in the opposing team's end and never left. Soft in his own zone? Maybe. Except he never let it stay in his own zone long enough for this to be an issue. He'd be there to intercept a pass, or gobble up an occasional rebound. There are those that try to argue if Lemieux had been healthy, he'd have been better than Gretzky. Those people never really watched the differences in how they played. Lemieux had more speed, a better shot, and was more physical. He was more talented, and that's where the confusion lies, because there's not a player ever - alive or dead, who even had a tenth of Gretzky's hockey smarts. When it came to who's going to make your team better, Gretzky was twice as effective as his closest competition. Gretzky was a savant .... Einstein and Hawking and Newton's genius simultaneously in one head and focused on Hockey instead of the universe around him.

And that doesn't touch guys like Bobby Orr, who was simultaneously the best offensive defenseman and defensive defenseman ever to play the game.

Crosby's the best player of a generation. Perhaps even two generations. But those two generations are a step below the ones who came before.

Great post Jeff. Won't argue with you that Gretzky was probably the smartest player ever. Lemieux had more talent, was faster, better shot, and was bigger.

As much as I like Crosby, he doesn't come close to Lemieux and Gretzky. I think i'd even put Jagr ahead of Crosby! (jagr in his prime that is)