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10 minutes ago, DON said:

If plays out as expected and Leafs steamroll Habs in 4 or 5 games, will Molson actually fire Bergevin? Or do you think he will give him another off season to make changes?

 

Geoff: "I believe Marc has the team headed in the right direction and we would have been formidable in the playoffs were it not for injuries"

 

Media: "But Geoff, the team was in fourth place when the serious injuries started piling up ... did they really change anything"

 

Geoff: "I believe Marc has the team headed in the right direction and we would have been formidable in the playoffs were it not for injuries"

 

Media: "You didn't answer my question"

 

Geoff: "Next question" 

 

 

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Sorry to say, you are likely bang-on.

Not that the kiddie pool of options to pick from for replacement are 'better' options.

 

Who knows, maybe team will "shock the world", be still standing come semi-final time and no big changes in Mgmt would then be expected. 

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3 hours ago, DON said:

If plays out as expected and Leafs steamroll Habs in 4 or 5 games, will Molson actually fire Bergevin? Or do you think he will give him another off season to make changes?


I don’t think Molson will fire him. I bet Molson give Bergevin a new contract. 
 

He hasn’t earned one but Molson isn’t doing anything about it. 
 

I sincerely hope Molson sells this team 

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First of all, we should remember the "LA Kings" scenario according to which this team suddenly looks like contenders once the playoffs start. It's a long shot, but remains a possibility.

 

Let's say, though, the Habs do get smoked. Do we fire MB?

 

What's paradoxical in this is that Bergevin is coming off his best off-season in 9 years as a GM - by a country mile. After years of letting gaping roster holes fester, and watching the team getting progressively worse over his tenure, he suddenly sprang into impressive action. He has been the Habs' true MVP in 2021. If it were not for his moves prior to the 2021 season, this would be a bottom-3 team right now.

 

So the case for keeping him is that he is coming off the equivalent of a managerial all-star season.

 

The case for firing him depends on the long view. He inherited a very strong nucleus assembled by Goat/Gainey - the nucleus that finished 2nd overall in 2015 - and watched uselessly as the team disintegrated into 5 years of being terrible. And his big gamble, that we could rebuild a contender within the Price/Weber window, right now looks like a total flop, with old men Weber and Price both coming off appallingly bad seasons and tied to crippling, long-term contracts,.

 

So the short-term view of things says, "keep Bergevin." The long-term, more holistic view - the "forest over the trees" take - says that the organization over his tenure has been defined mainly by progressively deepening mediocrity.

 

There's a further paradox, which is the Molson did not fire him when doing so seemed to make glaring short-term sense, i.e., after 2017 or 2018 when it was clear that he had led the team into disaster. At *that* time, Molson chose to take the long view - buying into the idea that the suckage was transitional and that we could "retool" and contend within the Price/Weber window. Is he now going to flip and take the short-term view ("Bergy had a great 2021 even if the team didn't and even though the future looks uninspiring")?

 

 


 

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2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I don’t think Molson will fire him. I bet Molson give Bergevin a new contract. 
 

He hasn’t earned one but Molson isn’t doing anything about it.

 

It sounds like they've had talks about some general talks about what a new deal could look like.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-gm-marc-bergevin-discussing-future-ownership/

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23 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

First of all, we should remember the "LA Kings" scenario according to which this team suddenly looks like contenders once the playoffs start. It's a long shot, but remains a possibility.

 

Let's say, though, the Habs do get smoked. Do we fire MB?

 

What's paradoxical in this is that Bergevin is coming off his best off-season in 9 years as a GM - by a country mile. After years of letting gaping roster holes fester, and watching the team getting progressively worse over his tenure, he suddenly sprang into impressive action. He has been the Habs' true MVP in 2021. If it were not for his moves prior to the 2021 season, this would be a bottom-3 team right now.

 

So the case for keeping him is that he is coming off the equivalent of a managerial all-star season.

 

The case for firing him depends on the long view. He inherited a very strong nucleus assembled by Goat/Gainey - the nucleus that finished 2nd overall in 2015 - and watched uselessly as the team disintegrated into 5 years of being terrible. And his big gamble, that we could rebuild a contender within the Price/Weber window, right now looks like a total flop, with old men Weber and Price both coming off appallingly bad seasons and tied to crippling, long-term contracts,.

 

So the short-term view of things says, "keep Bergevin." The long-term, more holistic view - the "forest over the trees" take - says that the organization over his tenure has been defined mainly by progressively deepening mediocrity.

 

There's a further paradox, which is the Molson did not fire him when doing so seemed to make glaring short-term sense, i.e., after 2017 or 2018 when it was clear that he had led the team into disaster. At *that* time, Molson chose to take the long view - buying into the idea that the suckage was transitional and that we could "retool" and contend within the Price/Weber window. Is he now going to flip and take the short-term view ("Bergy had a great 2021 even if the team didn't and even though the future looks uninspiring")?

 

 


 


Always insightful 👍

 

You are right that we need to see if this roster does indeed transform themselves for the playoffs. 
 

On Molson I really wonder where his mind is?  Is he deeply involved or not at all? Where does winning sit with him? Ultra important or would be nice?

 

I would love to see him sell

 

 

20 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

It sounds like they've had talks about some general talks about what a new deal could look like.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-gm-marc-bergevin-discussing-future-ownership/


Yeah no surprise. Cucumber laid out the argument for keeping him but 9 years of crap does not earn an extension. 
 

Unless this team was built for the playoffs after all.....

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5 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

Geoff: "I believe Marc has the team headed in the right direction and we would have been formidable in the playoffs were it not for injuries"

 

Media: "But Geoff, the team was in fourth place when the serious injuries started piling up ... did they really change anything"

 

Geoff: "I believe Marc has the team headed in the right direction and we would have been formidable in the playoffs were it not for injuries"

 

Media: "You didn't answer my question"

 

Geoff: "Next question" 

 

 

Yeah. I think we will get the rinse, repeat cycle again.

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33 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

First of all, we should remember the "LA Kings" scenario according to which this team suddenly looks like contenders once the playoffs start. It's a long shot, but remains a possibility.

 

Let's say, though, the Habs do get smoked. Do we fire MB?

 

What's paradoxical in this is that Bergevin is coming off his best off-season in 9 years as a GM - by a country mile. After years of letting gaping roster holes fester, and watching the team getting progressively worse over his tenure, he suddenly sprang into impressive action. He has been the Habs' true MVP in 2021. If it were not for his moves prior to the 2021 season, this would be a bottom-3 team right now.

 

So the case for keeping him is that he is coming off the equivalent of a managerial all-star season.

 

The case for firing him depends on the long view. He inherited a very strong nucleus assembled by Goat/Gainey - the nucleus that finished 2nd overall in 2015 - and watched uselessly as the team disintegrated into 5 years of being terrible. And his big gamble, that we could rebuild a contender within the Price/Weber window, right now looks like a total flop, with old men Weber and Price both coming off appallingly bad seasons and tied to crippling, long-term contracts,.

 

So the short-term view of things says, "keep Bergevin." The long-term, more holistic view - the "forest over the trees" take - says that the organization over his tenure has been defined mainly by progressively deepening mediocrity.

 

There's a further paradox, which is the Molson did not fire him when doing so seemed to make glaring short-term sense, i.e., after 2017 or 2018 when it was clear that he had led the team into disaster. At *that* time, Molson chose to take the long view - buying into the idea that the suckage was transitional and that we could "retool" and contend within the Price/Weber window. Is he now going to flip and take the short-term view ("Bergy had a great 2021 even if the team didn't and even though the future looks uninspiring")?

 

 


 

I don’t see us like the LAK. We don’t have the defence and I don’t know if we still have the goaltending the kings did. Those playoffs were a coming out party for Quick. They had a pretty solid D and were solid up the middle. Yes, we improved significantly in the wings, but I’m not sure what Carey Price we are going to see once he is ready. Not sure if the kids at centre can step up like they did in the bubble (Suzuki’s recent play has certainly been encouraging). But if we go deep it will have to be because the at least Two centres step up and we get lights out goaltending, because our D is simply not good enough - doesn’t come close to what the LAK had.

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LAK also hired Sutter late in the year and he whipped the Kings into a contender. 

 

Once they are swept out of the playoffs, hopefully it's the end of MB

 

 

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42 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

What's paradoxical in this is that Bergevin is coming off his best off-season in 9 years as a GM - by a country mile. After years of letting gaping roster holes fester, and watching the team getting progressively worse over his tenure, he suddenly sprang into impressive action. He has been the Habs' true MVP in 2021. If it were not for his moves prior to the 2021 season, this would be a bottom-3 team right now.

 

I fully agree.  This has undoubtedly been his best year ever.  Furthermore, if the Habs make the playoffs this year - which is almost guaranteed - it is basically unarguable that his moves during the off season were the correct moves.  i.e. they wouldnt have made the playoffs if not for *all* of those moves. 

 

What lee way does having to play 17 games in 30 days get him?  That is an interesting factor, especially if they have a quick playoff exit.

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other teams had a tough schedule too. 

 

While I agree he had a good off season, it shows you how garbage the team he put together for the last 8 or 9 years, not to mention the crappy contracts he has assembled

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17 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

I fully agree.  This has undoubtedly been his best year ever ... 

As Chris points out above, this was his best OFF SEASON ... on-ice it is his 6th best winning percentage ... Habs are likely in the playoffs only because both the winning percentages of Calgary (.093) and Vancouver (.126) dropped further than the Habs improved (.028).

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Chris said:

other teams had a tough schedule too. 

 

True, but not to the extent.  When this season started it was said that the Habs had the worst schedule in the NHL.  The games that went unplayed due to Covid and had to be rescheduled didn't improve their tough schedule it exacerbated it. 

 

Pierre LeBrun just made an excellent point regarding the Coach too.  With the crazy condensed schedule and them playing 3-4 times/week its not like Dom has really had a lot of time to even hold regular proper practices. 

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Yeah I bring Dom back because its near impossible to judge him.  He had no training camp.  He had no practice time.  He could only tweak Julien's system, he couldn't change it to his own cause he's had no practice time.  Its an unfair situation to judge a coach by. 

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1 minute ago, Commandant said:

Yeah I bring Dom back because its near impossible to judge him.  He had no training camp.  He had no practice time.  He could only tweak Julien's system, he couldn't change it to his own cause he's had no practice time.  Its an unfair situation to judge a coach by. 

 

Agreed ... unless exit interviews, or other less formal discussions, indicate he lost the team.

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Just now, Commandant said:

Yeah I bring Dom back because its near impossible to judge him.  He had no training camp.  He had no practice time.  He could only tweak Julien's system, he couldn't change it to his own cause he's had no practice time.  Its an unfair situation to judge a coach by. 

 

Yes, for sure.  It really is unfair to judge him at this point.  I definitely notice numerous new positive things that they are doing.  I'm sure those new things are because of him and that he's trying to get them change with the limited time he has had.  ex:  making a stance at their own blue line vs gifting entire neutral zone and blue line. 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

In 26 years, when Bergevin retires 

So the Habs drought then will be longer than it took to win its first 24 Cups.

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A couple people here have brought up Bergevin's A+ offseason. I think we also need to consider his D- trade deadline. 

 

We're looking at a very real possibility of none of his acquisitions playing in the playoffs without there being an injury. Staal - whose deal I thought was a good one at the time - has been a liability on the ice. Gustafsson has quickly fallen below the Kulak Line. Merrill has been a low key train wreck, but it's also hard to defend your zone while also trying to help remove your defense partner's head from his own ass for the past 11 games. 

 

This is looking very much like the Dwight King/Steve Ott/Andreas Martinsen/Brandon Davidson trade deadline all over again. He's had one, maybe two good trades at the deadline as a buyer? So is it not worth pointing out that Bergevin appears to have trouble identifying and acquiring the players his team needs for a playoff push?

 

If the team is headed toward constant playoff appearances and trying to trend toward contending, has Bergevin shown the track record to get it done?

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1 hour ago, Trizzak said:

A couple people here have brought up Bergevin's A+ offseason. I think we also need to consider his D- trade deadline. 

 

We're looking at a very real possibility of none of his acquisitions playing in the playoffs without there being an injury. Staal - whose deal I thought was a good one at the time - has been a liability on the ice. Gustafsson has quickly fallen below the Kulak Line. Merrill has been a low key train wreck, but it's also hard to defend your zone while also trying to help remove your defense partner's head from his own ass for the past 11 games. 

 

This is looking very much like the Dwight King/Steve Ott/Andreas Martinsen/Brandon Davidson trade deadline all over again. He's had one, maybe two good trades at the deadline as a buyer? So is it not worth pointing out that Bergevin appears to have trouble identifying and acquiring the players his team needs for a playoff push?

 

If the team is headed toward constant playoff appearances and trying to trend toward contending, has Bergevin shown the track record to get it done?

In his early years, Vanak was a a steal, as was Petry. Since Thani can’t remember a single good deadline move and I cringed when I heard about the    rumoured D’Angelo deal that fell through. He also has been consistent in picking up for the most either utterly useless defencemen, or dmen that are totally inadequate based on our needs.  It seems like he lives getting the fringe type of dmen that were like he was. Adequate on mainly unsuccessful teams that pretty much did squat in the playoffs.

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21 hours ago, DON said:

If plays out as expected and Leafs steamroll Habs in 4 or 5 games, will Molson actually fire Bergevin? Or do you think he will give him another off season to make changes?

I really don’t see this prediction as that being expected. I’d be very shocked if we got swept by the Leafs. Though, admittedly you did at the 5th game as an option.

 

I personally felt as though the Leafs would win our division, and I predicted as much in the thread associated with the North Division predictions. With that being said, while they would likely be a favorite against the Habs, I don’t see them as a stellar playoff team considering they have not won a playoff series since 2004. 
 

If we do lose in 4 games, then someone does indeed need to be shown the door. Whether it is Ducharme, Bergevin, Molson, or a combination of the three.

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10 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I really don’t see this prediction as that being expected. I’d be very shocked if we got swept by the Leafs. Though, admittedly you did at the 5th game as an option.

 

I personally felt as though the Leafs would win our division, and I predicted as much in the thread associated with the North Division predictions. With that being said, while they would likely be a favorite against the Habs, I don’t see them as a stellar playoff team considering they have not won a playoff series since 2004. 
 

If we do lose in 4 games, then someone does indeed need to be shown the door. Whether it is Ducharme, Bergevin, Molson, or a combination of the three.

 

But if we lose in 5, that’s somehow OK - ?

 

As for the Leafs, they do have a track record of playoff failure. Unfortunately, I tend to see that as a group that has undergone all the right growing pains. Humiliations often precede ultimate victory. They are genuinely dangerous.

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He’ll be here next year at minimum…

 

Lots of injuries, condensed schedule, no fans in the building and the team still got in.. now anything can happen.

 

Keep Bergevin. It could be worse.

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