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Fire Bergevin


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51 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He made the holes on D worse. Multi year to Alzner vs two years for Markov hurts.  Sergechev move still hurts. Not finding an equivalent replacement hurts even more. Right now I’d also rather have one more year of Subban eating up cap space than 5 more years of Weber.

 

has not helped that only home grown defense draft pick left that’s played a half season or more is Romanov. So much for building theough the draft!  Have not picked up an elite dman in a trade or free agency since Petry.  MB had basically been acquiring marginal dman that were the same type of easily replaceable dmen as he was in his playing days.

 

Despite his +/- I don’t consider Edmondson as anything more than a depth D that would fill at best the #4 slot, or more likely bottom pairing on a good team.

 

I think we all agree the Sergachev trade hurts and the Alzner signing was awful.  I think Markov was pretty much done and 2 years at 6 million/year or whatever would not have solved any problems. 

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Agree the last 2-3 drafts look good ... but other than Romanov, KK and Caufield none of the players selected are really in a position to help the habs for another couple of seasons ... so it is a matter of faith/optimism that the Habs will be even a semi-annual playoff team ... from 15/16 through 18/19 the Habs made the playoffs once, would not have last season except for Covid and would have been 5th in the Atlantic and 10th in the East based on Pts% this season (albeit with different schedules) ... MB may have added some players you need in the playoffs, but Price and Weber seem to perhaps no longer be players to "get you to the playoffs" 

 

THAT is an argument to keep him regardless of whether he is doing a good job ... not certain that is enough.

 

 

Winning a couple of playoff rounds would certainly support an extension ...while a first round exit leaves ammunition for both sides of the argument ... expect many electrons will die in this discussion.

 

It's not an argument to keep him if he is doing a bad job but only a consideration as you have to replace him with someone and we don't need any more Rejean Houle experiments. 

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Toffoli (tied 58th in ppg) has been awesome addition, but 20 or 21 teams have at least 1 player more productive this year.

 

And he best we got.:(

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6 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Multi year to Alzner vs two years for Markov hurts.  Sergechev move still hurts.

All of these are from four years ago, though. Far fewer mistakes since then.

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4 hours ago, DON said:

Toffoli (tied 58th in ppg) has been awesome addition, but 20 or 21 teams have at least 1 player more productive this year.

Sixth in the league in goals/game. Not bad, I think. (Whether he can sustain that next year is a whole other story though.)

 

And I'm using that metric because people constantly say Drouin is useless because he can't score and his assists don't matter.

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47 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

All of these are from four years ago, though. Far fewer mistakes since then.

The point is that it’s been 4 years and the holes on LD were never filled.

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44 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Sixth in the league in goals/game. Not bad, I think. (Whether he can sustain that next year is a whole other story though.)

 

And I'm using that metric because people constantly say Drouin is useless because he can't score and his assists don't matter.

Even if scores 30 or even 25 in a full regular season I like him way better than Tatar. I hope he comes close to this years production again, but as long as he earns his pay and produces on a regular clip (ie no 15 games of zeroes except for PIM). There a difference between producing at a lower rate; but regularly contributing, and being missing in action for 6 weeks.

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6 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The point is that it’s been 4 years and the holes on LD were never filled.

I have no issue with that argument, it is applicable to recent years. The three roster moves are a long time ago, hence my post.

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14 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The point is that it’s been 4 years and the holes on LD were never filled.

Get your point obviously. BUT, how many hole on LD are Left there to fill? :popcorn:

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13 minutes ago, DON said:

Get your point obviously. BUT, how many hole on LD are Left there to fill? :popcorn:

Minimum is at least one top pairing LD that can add offence from the backend, I actually think we can use two, but that is probably not possible, since we havent even been able to get one.

 

the only solid Dman in the top 4 I like is Petry. If we can somehow dump Weber’s cap hit, it would be nice to add both a LD and also replace Weber with a a more productive RD as well. Not the chances of that happening are pretty slim.

 

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Just now, Toronthab said:

I miss Bob Gainey a lot. Just because he's Bog Gainey. Love that guy. 

Err... in a hockey player sorta way... 

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13 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Glad you clarified, absolutely loved Bob Gainey the player, Bob Gainey the GM not nearly as  much. 

I would have loved to see what Dryden could have done as a GM.

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19 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Glad you clarified, absolutely loved Bob Gainey the player, Bob Gainey the GM not nearly as  much. 

How could you not love the job Gainey did as GM????? He took a team over that had no talent on the NHL level and no talent on the AHL level. He turned the franchise around and brought it back to respectability.  The team Bergevin took over was all thanks to gainey. 

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2 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

How could you not love the job Gainey did as GM????? He took a team over that had no talent on the NHL level and no talent on the AHL level. He turned the franchise around and brought it back to respectability.  The team Bergevin took over was all thanks to gainey. 

 

God, have standards ever dropped among Habs fans.

 

I have massive respect for Bob the player and Bob the human being. As GM, he did indeed bring the Habs back to respectability but made too many critical mistakes and was never able to build an authentic contender. His primary mission was a failure, alas.

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50 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

God, have standards ever dropped among Habs fans.

 

I have massive respect for Bob the player and Bob the human being. As GM, he did indeed bring the Habs back to respectability but made too many critical mistakes and was never able to build an authentic contender. His primary mission was a failure, alas.

How did he not build a authentic contender? When he got fired his team was a true number one center and depth scoring away from making the cup finals and maybe even wining a cup. 

 

  His critical mistake was not landing a true number one center, and the Gomez trade. Also he did miss out on some talent drafting.  But for the most part hit on a lot of draft picks. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

How did he not build a authentic contender? When he got fired his team was a true number one center and depth scoring away from making the cup finals and maybe even wining a cup. 

 

  His critical mistake was not landing a true number one center, and the Gomez trade. 

 

 

 

The Gomez trade was one of the biggest blunders I have ever seen made by a Habs GM.  In a salary cap world Glen Sather should have had  to pay someone to take that contract off his hands, instead Gainey threw in Ryan McDonagh.   I don't know what Gainey was thinking.  After that I lost all confidence in Gainey. 

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14 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

... His critical mistake was not landing a true number one center ...

The more things change ... 

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4 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

The Gomez trade was one of the biggest blunders I have ever seen made by a Habs GM.  In a salary cap world Glen Sather should have had  to pay someone to take that contract off his hands, instead Gainey threw in Ryan McDonagh.   I don't know what Gainey was thinking.  After that I lost all confidence in Gainey. 

Even worse then the Roy or Damphousse trade? 

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Apart from the Gomez debacle, on a team desperate for C, he traded a legit #2 centreman in Ribeiro and got nothing back in return. He also threw away a decent (if inferior) 2nd-line C in Grabovski. On a team with a real need for a #2 d-man, he allowed Mark Streit to walk. He also stupidly allowed Souray to walk as a UFA at a time when the Habs had no chance to do anything, and he could have returned a king's ransom.

 

Too many of the young guns he developed during Rebuild 1.0 turned out to be garbage: the Kostitsyns, Komisarek, Higgins.

 

That he did not build a contender is completely obvious - the Habs came nowhere near contending at any point during his tenure.

 

This is not to say he was terrible, just that he was not great.

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9 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

In hindsight I believe that Gainey got caught up in the romance of GMing for the Habs, and especially when aiming to get them a cup in their centennial year. 

I think it was more of being a playoff contender. They stopped drafting high and once all the top talent made the NHL he didn't refresh the farm system because he was trading picks or picking low in drafts.

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10 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Even worse then the Roy or Damphousse trade? 

 

I didn't say it was the only bad trade made by a Habs GM, there have been several.  You noted a couple.  But that trade illustrated to me that Gainey just didn't understand the salary cap which concerned me.  Taking on a contract like Gomez AND AND throwing in your best defence prospect when Sather should have been happy just to dump the contract.   It was a brutal trade. He was absolutely fleeced by Glen Sather.  The Rechi trade didn't turn out well either. 

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11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Apart from the Gomez debacle, on a team desperate for C, he traded a legit #2 centreman in Ribeiro and got nothing back in return. He also threw away a decent (if inferior) 2nd-line C in Grabovski. On a team with a real need for a #2 d-man, he allowed Mark Streit to walk. He also stupidly allowed Souray to walk as a UFA at a time when the Habs had no chance to do anything, and he could have returned a king's ransom.

 

Too many of the young guns he developed during Rebuild 1.0 turned out to be garbage: the Kostitsyns, Komisarek, Higgins.

 

That he did not build a contender is completely obvious - the Habs came nowhere near contending at any point during his tenure.

 

This is not to say he was terrible, just that he was not great.

Ribeiro at the time wasn't a top center and was known for diving ie remember the game vrs Boston. Which is why they gave up on him. 

 

He missed big time on the 03 draft in my honest opinion. 

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