What will it take to make Habs a better club?

[hab29RETIRED]

Pleks has one year left on his contract. If you are fine with another second round exit, than keep the current centres. We aren't going to go further with the current configuration. I'd rather go for a solid long-term upgrade and potential for an improvement next year. We probably dont' get 110 points. Who cares. I'll take less points and give Galchenyuk a real look at centre.

OK, move Galy from being a middling 2nd line W who was utterly clueless in the playoffs to our 1st-line C overnight, with no backup or fall-back position other than Desharnais and Eller. Awesome plan. Now, if we have Plekanec, then at least there is some sort of safety cushion. We can explore Galy at C and still have a rock-solid veteran C to fall back on. I'd have no problem with that (as long as the team is willing to retreat from Galy at C if he is getting shredded nightly and having his confidence destroyed).

Habs29's idea is a good one, but ONLY if we're willing to risk taking a potentially massive step backward for the next couple of seasons - like, missing the playoffs - while Yakupov, Draisaitl, and Galchenyuk 'find their way.' It's a recipe for a rebuilding team, not a team that is on the cusp of contention. And hey, maybe swinging for the fences like that is the only way to go. But prima facie this trade makes us very substantially weaker at C barring some explosion from Galchenyuk, without any obvious gain at W, unless, again, Yakupov explodes. Bergy would be run out of town on a rail if he blew up a successful roster like that.

[hab29RETIRED]

What the hell is so great about Draisaitl? He had two frigging goals?!?!?!?

the first half of Stamkos rookie season they were calling him a bust. The guy played for the friggin dysfunctional oilers. If the Oilers drafted Seguin instead of Hall, Sequin probably would have topped of at 65 points. Worst case scenario for this Draisaitl is Ryan O'Rielly. Potential to be a big two way centre like Kopitar.

[habs rule]

OK, move Galy from being a middling 2nd line W who was utterly clueless in the playoffs to our 1st-line C overnight, with no backup or fall-back position other than Desharnais and Eller. Awesome plan. Now, if we have Plekanec, then at least there is some sort of safety cushion. We can explore Galy at C and still have a rock-solid veteran C to fall back on. I'd have no problem with that (as long as the team is willing to retreat from Galy at C if he is getting shredded nightly and having his confidence destroyed).

Habs29's idea is a good one, but ONLY if we're willing to risk taking a potentially massive step backward for the next couple of seasons - like, missing the playoffs - while Yakupov, Draisaitl, and Galchenyuk 'find their way.' It's a recipe for a rebuilding team, not a team that is on the cusp of contention. And hey, maybe swinging for the fences like that is the only way to go. But prima facie this trade makes us very substantially weaker at C barring some explosion from Galchenyuk, without any obvious gain at W, unless, again, Yakupov explodes. Bergy would be run out of town on a rail if he blew up a successful roster like that.

Well making it all the way to the second round is not doing it for me. I think Daddy Molsonbucks would be happier with more home games. I think Eller can cover Pleks defensive responsibilities. yaks and galy cover the scoring. Draisaitl will be a real stud. I doubt Peter c is giving him to us so this deal doesn't happen. But it is always nice to dream.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Well making it all the way to the second round is not doing it for me. I think Daddy Molsonbucks would be happier with more home games. I think Eller can cover Pleks defensive responsibilities. yaks and galy cover the scoring. Draisaitl will be a real stud. I doubt Peter c is giving him to us so this deal doesn't happen. But it is always nice to dream.

The thing is, if Yakupov and Galy fail to break out, we basically miss the playoffs. Are you OK with that too?

(BTW, I doubt that Eller can do what Pleks does defensively. Machine has documented pretty extensively that Eller struggles whenever he is matched up against top-6 forwards).

It's also not either/or. We might be able to add some offence without this kind of radical surgery. That's an option to consider.

[Habs30/31]

Not so sure why Galchenyuk at centre is still being run up the flagpole by most, or he is being slotted as top six centre?

Let the kid play wing and if people want a centre so badly, put Pacioretty there if centre is that important, he is bigger, stronger and better defensively than Galchenyuk.

thinking out side the box

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I'm completely against it but trading Plex for Yakupov is not the worst idea ever. I feel like some draft picks would need to be thrown in to sweeten the deal if it were to happen though. Even if it was something like Plex and a 3rd for Yakupov and a 2nd. Regardless of potential, you know what you're getting out of Plex at this stage in his career. Yakupov, on the other hand, is an unproven wildcard who will probably end up being pretty good if not really good but has not shown anything to make me believe he'll be another Kovalchuk or anything. Realistically, he may not necessarily even end up being that much better than Plekanec as an overall player when you really think about it.

Counting on Eller, Yakupov and Galchenyuk literally sounds like the Oilers mentality of operating things, even if only one of them has been an Oiler and so as I said I'd be against the move.

In all honesty, I rarely get into these types of discussions because we can all be arm chair GMs, but rarely do as many moves as people suggest actually happen. With that being said, I honesty hope Bergevin trades one of Plex, Desharnais or Eller in the offseason. It's about time. I could go back 2-3 years on here and there would be a thread discussing the same thing about how one of Eller, Plek or Eller need to go; the only debate is which one of them. I think it's very clear, as I did back a few years ago, that Desharnais is the one who needs to go. I don't even care if the return isn't great for him because at the very least, it will give us a clearer vision of the team and its needs and stop creating a reasonable illusion that we're actually alright at center because we can apparently roll three lines. Plekanec and Eller are moveable as well though, I just don't think they necessarily need to be. I don't mind any three of the players and actually like both Eller and Plekanec more than your average player but keeping all three isn't the greatest management of the team in my opinion.

[hab29RETIRED]

The thing is, if Yakupov and Galy fail to break out, we basically miss the playoffs. Are you OK with that too?

(BTW, I doubt that Eller can do what Pleks does defensively. Machine has documented pretty extensively that Eller struggles whenever he is matched up against top-6 forwards).

It's also not either/or. We might be able to add some offence without this kind of radical surgery. That's an option to consider.

during the Ottawa and Tampa series, Eller was pretty much given the responsibility of shutting down the top 6 from both teams.

[DON]

On the 2nd PK unit maybe, but Plekanec was used most in all situations and was #1 centre ES/SH & PP.

If need to win a faceoff Eller was easily best 57.1% (but one can argue Plekanec faced off vs tougher centres and still was 51.6%)

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I have no problem with moving Pleks for Yakupov IF we can go out and also get an all-around C who can do much of what Pleks does (Eller can't IMHO). Easier said than done; but failing that, I maintain that the Habs29 scenario poses a major risk of missing the playoffs. Now, some posters on here might say they're willing to bite that bullet as a necessary step toward a Cup. I don't believe them. What would actually happen is that if Galy and Nail fail to break out, and the team accordingly bombs out, they would bitterly denounce the organization and blame it all on Therrien and fume for heads to roll, etc., etc., instead of seeing the ensuing disaster as a perfectly predictable outcome of this high-risk decision.

No. Bergevin will remember how fine the line was between winning and losing against TB and will therefore not blow up the roster on high-risk moves. He will look for ways to upgrade on Desharnais, knowing it won't be easy, and knowing in advance that bagging the Stud C is probably not realistic. Thus, he will try to find a serviceable #1a-type C (a Ribeiro type if not actually that punk). In the meantime, he will plan to add a scoring UFA (Williams, etc.) as well as Petry to the mix. And he will cross his fingers that some FW from within the system can make the jump, and that we can get improvement from guys like Beaulieu, Smith-Pelly, DeLaRose, and above all Galchenyuk; and he will expect the PP to do better. All of which should boost the offence without gutting core pieces.

Not sexy, but probably wise.

[ICEWATER77]

Here's a thought: everyone says that Eller couldn't become the shut-down center we'd need should Pleks get traded. I think we already have the shut-down center and his name is JDL. Haven't any of you seen this kid make play after play since the call up? This kid busts up plays all the time, and will only get better with more strength. Mind you, the wrist surgery may hinder that, but still.

[KoRP]

Here's a thought: everyone says that Eller couldn't become the shut-down center we'd need should Pleks get traded. I think we already have the shut-down center and his name is JDL. Haven't any of you seen this kid make play after play since the call up? This kid busts up plays all the time, and will only get better with more strength. Mind you, the wrist surgery may hinder that, but still.

Another good point Ice, I agree. DLR looks like we have a good defensive center, with size, speed and hockey IQ.

Maybe within this scenario, Eller could play a more prominent offensive role, along with a decent defensive game himself.

Maybe these two could fill some of the void left by trading Pleks defensively, but the 20 goals and 60 points Pleks put up in regular season has to be reasonably be replaced, and not by gambling a young player will do it, but maybe by signing say a Vermette to play C, and of course, hope MT uses Galchenyuk at center, and he lives up to some of our expectations.

I still believe we need a scoring winger though personally, before we should go off the rails and trade Plek without replacing the hole he would leave at center for sure.

But I do have to say that getting Yakupov may be the best move if trading Pleks, because the kid can score, and there is no doubt about his talent and top end potential.

Great discussion fellas, with lots of great armchair idea stuff!

[dlbalr]

Here's a thought: everyone says that Eller couldn't become the shut-down center we'd need should Pleks get traded. I think we already have the shut-down center and his name is JDL. Haven't any of you seen this kid make play after play since the call up? This kid busts up plays all the time, and will only get better with more strength. Mind you, the wrist surgery may hinder that, but still.

Long-term, I think they view him as the shutdown guy. Does a team with eyes on trying to contend once again next season want to put a 20 year old against the league's best night in, night out though? There would probably be a transition into that role rather than asking him to take that spot as early as this October.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Long-term, I think they view him as the shutdown guy. Does a team with eyes on trying to contend once again next season want to put a 20 year old against the league's best night in, night out though? There would probably be a transition into that role rather than asking him to take that spot as early as this October.

Exactly. They may well be grooming him as a Pleks replacement, but geez, at least give him a proper rookie year before throwing him to the wolves!

[Machine of Loving Grace]

DLR also stumbled at the end of the season and Eller took his spot back as the third line center. If he takes the spot all season long next year then yeah, he'd be prime for it. Unless we plan to move him in the future, I'd rather not throw too much responsibility on him like Carolina/Pittsburgh did with Sutter.

[illWill]

I don't understand all of this Yakupov for Plekanec talk, did I miss something? Why on earth would they trade a #1 overall pick a couple years ago for a 32 year old center with one year left on his contract? They already have RNH, McDavid and Draistail up the middle, and us trading a center for a winger makes no sense when it is a perceived weakness.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I don't understand all of this Yakupov for Plekanec talk, did I miss something? Why on earth would they trade a #1 overall pick a couple years ago for a 32 year old center with one year left on his contract? They already have RNH, McDavid and Draistail up the middle, and us trading a center for a winger makes no sense when it is a perceived weakness.

They won't. Much like the Jets when they were doing bad, everyone wants to assume the Oilers will firesale all of their offensive forwards to the Habs.

[bbp]

The failure of Galchenyuk to emerge as a bona-fide star leaves a gigantic hole in the entire rebuild plan as far as I can see. And Eller's mediocrity is a lesser, but similar, structural flaw. Those guys were supposed to become the top-6 additions we needed. No dice.

Hes 21. He played 20M once this year.

He'll get better, get more minutes and play with stronger players.

He'll produce. If he can turn into a 30g 70p player thats all we need.

(I think a new coach would help his progression a lot)

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I know Cucumber is doing the whole tough love thing about Galchenyuk, but when you're the 25th best left winger in the league in terms of pure offensive production (he's 46th for centers but barely played there and NHL.com still slots him there), claiming he's not a top six addition is pure ludicrous. Not a "bona-fide" star? Sure, he's still just a second line winger. But "supposed to become the top-6 additions we need" is silly. Galchenyuk was a top six forward by every possible standard last season.

Lars Eller scored a point less than Joe Colborne with 13 more games to do it. He scored the same as Dominic Moore, David Legwand and Nick Spaling. John Mitchell had a point less than him. The only team slapping their heads harder on a similar deal is the St. Louis Blues with Patrik Berglund andd the New Jersey Devils with Travis Zajac (Zajac is the Devils verison of Eller. Everyone thought he was Plekanec with size and instead he's Lars Eller making $5.75M per season. Why did that happen? They forced him into the top six and thought his production wasn't purely Parise and Elias carrying him). Eller's contract looks like a blunder right now.

[ICEWATER77]

I know I know, I'm probably pumping JDL's tires a little too soon, but I just think this kid is the real deal man. Like KO says, he's got size speed and high hockey IQ. I would make that trade of Andrei Kostyshn for 2nd rd pick (JDL) anyday

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I know Cucumber is doing the whole tough love thing about Galchenyuk, but when you're the 25th best left winger in the league in terms of pure offensive production (he's 46th for centers but barely played there and NHL.com still slots him there), claiming he's not a top six addition is pure ludicrous. Not a "bona-fide" star? Sure, he's still just a second line winger. But "supposed to become the top-6 additions we need" is silly. Galchenyuk was a top six forward by every possible standard last season.

Lars Eller scored a point less than Joe Colborne with 13 more games to do it. He scored the same as Dominic Moore, David Legwand and Nick Spaling. John Mitchell had a point less than him. The only team slapping their heads harder on a similar deal is the St. Louis Blues with Patrik Berglund andd the New Jersey Devils with Travis Zajac (Zajac is the Devils verison of Eller. Everyone thought he was Plekanec with size and instead he's Lars Eller making $5.75M per season. Why did that happen? They forced him into the top six and thought his production wasn't purely Parise and Elias carrying him). Eller's contract looks like a blunder right now.

OK, you're right, I overstated the case. He's an adequate second liner, although his playoff performance was lousy. But it remains true that Galchenyuk is not an impact player at all. It is reasonable to expect a #3 overall pick to be an impact player, and that was certainly the expectation when we drafted him. That said, it is also reasonable to give him another couple of seasons before definitively resigning ourselves to the fact that he's nothing special. What I'm saying is that, if he continues to be the player he is right now, that represents a structural problem for the rebuild, of which he was supposed to be central piece, rather than a passenger (which is what he is right now).

Eller, mediocre? You don't have to tell me twice.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

at this stage gallagher is definitely more impactful then AG27.

i just think with the continued growth of beaulieau, pateryn, tinordi, DLR, gallagher, DSP and yes galchenyuk... this team can only and will only get better.

i also think introducing Reway to the top 6 (who is to my belief our best offensive prospect by far) to the wing and a trade of DD and PAP and this team is really starting to take its contending shape....

also to note that people laughed at Big Mike at C and have already set his value at 4th line C but the guy is the best C so far on all 4 teams in the Mem cup.... and that includes the highly touted Draisatal... just saying he was drafted as a winger and galchenyuk as a C but sometimes we end up getting what we want just not exactly how we planned

[nihilz]

Eller had revolving linemates playing mostly a defensive role with limited PP time. He still scored 15 goals. Perhaps if he had a mainstay winger not named Brandon, he would have more assists as well.

Eller has flashes of almost dominance. I still have hope he can round out his game with DLR on his wing all next season. Probably DSP or Weise on his right wing. I doubt PAP will be back.

If he can become consistent with his intensity and with play with those guys mentioned. We will see a 20-20 Larry.

After this coming season I will hold a flame to Eller. Up to now, I feel he has been mis-managed more than simply being dead weight.

We will never win with DD top 6 nor will we ever win with DD bottom 6.

[Habs30/31]

Eller had revolving linemates playing mostly a defensive role with limited PP time. He still scored 15 goals. Perhaps if he had a mainstay winger not named Brandon, he would have more assists as well.

Eller has flashes of almost dominance. I still have hope he can round out his game with DLR on his wing all next season. Probably DSP or Weise on his right wing. I doubt PAP will be back.

If he can become consistent with his intensity and with play with those guys mentioned. We will see a 20-20 Larry.

After this coming season I will hold a flame to Eller. Up to now, I feel he has been mis-managed more than simply being dead weight.

We will never win with DD top 6 nor will we ever win with DD bottom 6.

Agree with your take on larry one hundred per cent.

[Habs30/31]

I know Cucumber is doing the whole tough love thing about Galchenyuk, but when you're the 25th best left winger in the league in terms of pure offensive production (he's 46th for centers but barely played there and NHL.com still slots him there), claiming he's not a top six addition is pure ludicrous. Not a "bona-fide" star? Sure, he's still just a second line winger. But "supposed to become the top-6 additions we need" is silly. Galchenyuk was a top six forward by every possible standard last season.

Lars Eller scored a point less than Joe Colborne with 13 more games to do it. He scored the same as Dominic Moore, David Legwand and Nick Spaling. John Mitchell had a point less than him. The only team slapping their heads harder on a similar deal is the St. Louis Blues with Patrik Berglund andd the New Jersey Devils with Travis Zajac (Zajac is the Devils verison of Eller. Everyone thought he was Plekanec with size and instead he's Lars Eller making $5.75M per season. Why did that happen? They forced him into the top six and thought his production wasn't purely Parise and Elias carrying him). Eller's contract looks like a blunder right now.

Depends where and who you are playing with. Name larrys line mates over the last two seasons. About 20 of them. But never with Pacs. HaRdly with Gallagher. Rarely with chucky. No poweplay time. 15 goals. Pleks got 10 more goals than larry playing with gallagher, pacs, chucky a ton of pp time and first line minutes and sutuations every game ...... 10 more goals than larry. Tied larry for goals in play offs.

"play offs? play offs?....play offs?".............Pleks had one more goal than Carey price in play offs. Granted Carey had more powerplay time.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

OK, you're right, I overstated the case. He's an adequate second liner, although his playoff performance was lousy. But it remains true that Galchenyuk is not an impact player at all. It is reasonable to expect a #3 overall pick to be an impact player, and that was certainly the expectation when we drafted him. That said, it is also reasonable to give him another couple of seasons before definitively resigning ourselves to the fact that he's nothing special. What I'm saying is that, if he continues to be the player he is right now, that represents a structural problem for the rebuild, of which he was supposed to be central piece, rather than a passenger (which is what he is right now).

Eller, mediocre? You don't have to tell me twice.

A lot of the fizzling of Galchenyuk, imo, is Therrien hockey. If he could cheat as much as Phil Kessel, then he would be a sixty point player. He's also playing with Tomas Plekanec...we all know what that means.