Guest Stogey24 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Last year was suppose to be the big "transition year". Not sure how this season is going to be any different... Beaulieu will have his first season with more minutes, Galchenyuk will be PUT at centre for an extended period, Markov is fading out, bottom pair D wet behind ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I am one who originally thought Gilbert was an ok 5th or 6th d. Then came the playoffs, where he was giving the puck away like it would burn his stick. I for one did not think he played any different in the playoffs, except with more giveaways. I called for him to be sat several times in the playoffs, hell Gonchar would have been better, at least not giving the puck away. It really does not matter what we pay Gilbert, he isn't very good. Beaulieu has made the team in opinion. If Tinordi can get his shit together we have the personnel we need. Gilbert can go somewhere else. Trade him for a 2nd rounder and I would call that a coup. Surely someone wants this "decent defenceman" I don't and we don't need him. If on the other hand nobody wants him, and he is worth nothing in trade value then I guess those of you who think he is so good, are wrong. 29 Gms will have said so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I am one who originally thought Gilbert was an ok 5th or 6th d. Then came the playoffs, where he was giving the puck away like it would burn his stick. I for one did not think he played any different in the playoffs, except with more giveaways. I called for him to be sat several times in the playoffs, hell Gonchar would have been better, at least not giving the puck away. It really does not matter what we pay Gilbert, he isn't very good. Beaulieu has made the team in opinion. If Tinordi can get his shit together we have the personnel we need. Gilbert can go somewhere else. Trade him for a 2nd rounder and I would call that a coup. Surely someone wants this "decent defenceman" I don't and we don't need him. If on the other hand nobody wants him, and he is worth nothing in trade value then I guess those of you who think he is so good, are wrong. 29 Gms will have said so. The takeaway/giveaway stat isn't the most reliable but in the regular season, Gilbert had 0.74 giveaways per game. In the postseason, it was 0.75, virtually no difference. I didn't find him any better/worse handling the puck to be honest. As for other teams wanting him, there should be a market. As I mentioned in the trade value thread, other teams wanted him just last July and his play last season was no different than the year before. I'm sure Bergevin didn't offer him $2.8 M as a starting point, that just wound up being the cost to win the bidding war. Wait until the big names go in free agency, Gilbert will be a decent consolation prize to other teams if the Habs do decide to move him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The takeaway/giveaway stat isn't the most reliable but in the regular season, Gilbert had 0.74 giveaways per game. In the postseason, it was 0.75, virtually no difference. I didn't find him any better/worse handling the puck to be honest. As for other teams wanting him, there should be a market. As I mentioned in the trade value thread, other teams wanted him just last July and his play last season was no different than the year before. I'm sure Bergevin didn't offer him $2.8 M as a starting point, that just wound up being the cost to win the bidding war. Wait until the big names go in free agency, Gilbert will be a decent consolation prize to other teams if the Habs do decide to move him. Well that is interesting about the giveaway/takeaway which I guess means I just was paying more attention to him in the playoffs, or his sins were more obvious. And I agree there should be a market for him. I think he should be somewhere else where he is a better fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Last year was suppose to be the big "transition year". Not sure how this season is going to be any different... Beaulieu will have his first season with more minutes, Galchenyuk will be PUT at centre for an extended period, Markov is fading out, bottom pair D wet behind ears. MB used the term "transition year". MT coached every game as if it were a play off game. MB manages like we are building towards becoming a stanley cup winner MT coaches like we already are one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 MB used the term "transition year". MT coached every game as if it were a play off game. MB manages like we are building towards becoming a stanley cup winner MT coaches like we already are one. This doesn't hold any water. MB has said each year the goal is to make the playoffs. Last year he basically said the Habs were playing over their head and would take a step back this year. The biggest UFA contract he's given in three (and four years after a month) is to Jeff Petry. His best trade was for Dale Weise. His plan is to "build through the draft" when the Habs have had one high pick in four drafts. (Hint, this is a shitty plan). I can't believe Therrien has coached this team to the success he has, he deserves a lot of credit. If Price regresses to a .920 or even .925 sv% this team will be lucky to get 100 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 "Build through the draft" is a bad plan? Well that says everything. You've gone nutty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 "Build through the draft" is a bad plan? Well that says everything. You've gone nutty. I believe he's saying that building through the draft WHILE YOU'RE NOT TANKING is a shitty plan. I kinda agree with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It is very hard to build through the draft if you have the 25th plus pick every year. We have been in this situation for the last couple of decades. We are good enough to make the playoffs, which means we get a lousy draft position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Devils and Red Wings still built through the draft as contenders. The whole reason the Blackhawks are in the finals is because they can trade a Ladd, trade a Byfuglien, let Versteeg go (and bring him back cheaper) and watch Hossa and Sharp get older when they have Saad and Teravainen drafted and coming up the ranks. The day you stop building through the draft is the day you stop being a contender. See the Penguins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 This doesn't hold any water. MB has said each year the goal is to make the playoffs. Last year he basically said the Habs were playing over their head and would take a step back this year. The biggest UFA contract he's given in three (and four years after a month) is to Jeff Petry. His best trade was for Dale Weise. His plan is to "build through the draft" when the Habs have had one high pick in four drafts. (Hint, this is a shitty plan). I can't believe Therrien has coached this team to the success he has, he deserves a lot of credit. If Price regresses to a .920 or even .925 sv% this team will be lucky to get 100 points. You are right about one thing. Price is the reason for the habs 110 points. He stole about 24 to 30 of them. As Jauques Demers was recently quoted as saying about Carey Price "we all know without that boys play this season, Canadiens dont even make the play off" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 It is very hard to build through the draft if you have the 25th plus pick every year. We have been in this situation for the last couple of decades. We are good enough to make the playoffs, which means we get a lousy draft position. Yup, too bad the Subban's of the league arnt available in 2nd round at 43rd...oh wait a sec they are. Or the Markov's arnt available in 6th round at 162. Plekanec 3rd rounder, Gallagher 5th rounder, Halak 6th rounder. Dont need to quote Zetterberg nor Datsyuk slot, but wasnt in 1st round neither, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Devils and Red Wings still built through the draft as contenders. The whole reason the Blackhawks are in the finals is because they can trade a Ladd, trade a Byfuglien, let Versteeg go (and bring him back cheaper) and watch Hossa and Sharp get older when they have Saad and Teravainen drafted and coming up the ranks. The day you stop building through the draft is the day you stop being a contender. See the Penguins. Can happen both ways............wings are still building through the draft. Won one round in last four years. Not a serious contender and have not been for quite some time. Stevie y,.....he built through the draft, and free agency, and trades. You need to do all three and you need to be lucky too. ha! A great power play helps too. But yes you always have to grow your own HR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 I believe he's saying that building through the draft WHILE YOU'RE NOT TANKING is a shitty plan. I kinda agree with him. I really disagree and if you want to build otherwise is a Leaf way of doing things! If you like that buy a Kessel/Phaneuf jersey, neither drafted by Leafs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yup, too bad the Subban's of the league arnt available in 2nd round at 43rd...oh wait a sec they are. Or the Markov's arnt available in 6th round at 162. Plekanec 3rd rounder, Gallagher 5th rounder, Halak 6th rounder. Dont need to quote Zetterberg nor Datsyuk slot, but wasnt in 1st round neither, tampa bay has some great picks that came in the second, seventh rounds. Johnson was only offered try outs from bolts and hawks, nobody else would even look at him let alone draft him. Other than Price habs just have no luck with first rounders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I really disagree and if you want to build otherwise is a Leaf way of doing things! If you like that buy a Kessel/Phaneuf jersey, neither drafted by Leafs. Leafs are bad example. lightning did all three....built through draft, good trades, free agents. MB is smart, he just need a little luck landing a couple of real good character guys. Cant ride on the core that was already here when he got here for much longer....... Petry is good addition, albeit expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 MB used the term "transition year". MT coached every game as if it were a play off game. MB manages like we are building towards becoming a stanley cup winner MT coaches like we already are one. You are saying this like it's a bad thing. A coach that tries to win every game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 "Build through the draft" is a bad plan? Well that says everything. You've gone nutty. Picks 25-30, and we've had three of them in a row, have about a 20% chance of becoming an impact player in the NHL. That's why the majority of teams that finish high flip their picks at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 You are saying this like it's a bad thing. A coach that tries to win every game. Yes I can see it may have read that way. No I think Therrien was always to quick to shrink his bench. Before we had Pertry he played Markov to death. Shocked me when Petry was added and the coach did not take advantage of the addition to cut back on the aging markovs ice time to better prepare him for play offs. We had a play off position locked up. Yet Markov is playing the 28 minutes in an ot game against florida at like game 75????? The way Quennville plays Seabrook and Kieth now deep in the play offs likens the way Therrien played Markov and PK all season. Now Kieth, Seasbrook and PK are all in their prime physically and can do that....Markov? No way. But you cant tell Therrien that. Game 12? game 42 ? game 75? Play off position locked up. Dont matter. Thats what I mean by playing every game like its a game 7. When Petry got here NB's ice time shrank, and a couple of other guys shared in the cut back of ice time. But its Markov who should have recieved the much deserved and needed breather. Tell you the truth sometimes watched in disbelief at how much hockey Markov played for 81 games, especially down the stretch. It simply was not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Is why Kings drafted 29th last year and Hawks picked 30th the year before that and KIngs picked 30th the year before; because late 1st picks only have 20% chance. Dumb cup winning GMs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yup, too bad the Subban's of the league arnt available in 2nd round at 43rd...oh wait a sec they are. Or the Markov's arnt available in 6th round at 162. Plekanec 3rd rounder, Gallagher 5th rounder, Halak 6th rounder. Dont need to quote Zetterberg nor Datsyuk slot, but wasnt in 1st round neither, And the best player we have? and have had in 20 years, that goalie guy who leads this team? Oh yeah he was 5th overall. I am not saying that we can't build through the draft, I am saying it is damn difficult. By the way what exactly has that group of players you listed who play for Montreal won? Nothing, ah I see your point. Again we can't give up on the draft but we have very little room for error with our picks cause they aren't good ones. Now if we take a look at Edmonton, there is a team built through the draft. Oh maybe not a good example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 And the man of this thread was 45th pick. If late 1st rounders are only 20% what are 40something like Subban-Petry odds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Is why Kings drafted 29th last year and Hawks picked 30th the year before that and KIngs picked 30th the year before; because late 1st picks only have 20% chance. Dumb cup winning GMs! The Kings have been one of the most active teams at the deadline for years. They gave up a King's ransom for Sekera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 But Kings don't trade late 1st picks, so your theory may have holes, but pun works. IF you had of used Sather as a 1st pick wheeler/dealer you be better off, but like you say these kids are years away from NHL and sather traded 2013-14-15-16 1st round picks, we shall see how they fair come 2017-2020, be back out of playoffs picking high. But, gotta give Sather credit, he will go all in and sell the farm if thinks there is a chance at cup. But, helps that Rangers are like the #10th favourite team, just in NYC. A Habs GM dosent have that luxury to fly under radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 As i said no luck in first round for habs. 18 leblanc 12 macdonough 20 fisher 18 chipchura 10 kostitsin 14 c. higgins 7 kommy 25 perezhogin 13 hainsey 16 hossa 16 chounaird 11 ward 18 m. higgins 8 ryan 18 briown 21 koivu 20 wilke 17 bilodeau 12 stevenson 13 vallis 20 charon 15 pederson 17 cassels 12 charbeneau 16 chorske there is 25 years of not so good luck with first rounders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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