hab29RETIRED Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I talk think moving Tinordi is one that we would regret for years. It's bad enough that we gave away McDonough. We've been looking for a dman like Tinordi for years and to move him before giving him a real shot would be foolish. Dmen take take time to develop. Big Dmen tend to take longer. I think Gilbert gets traded for a 3rd rounder. Emelin stays, he has a NTC. Tinordi gets dealt since he must clear waivers this year, along with Paterin, and he hasn't progressed in three years. He gets traded at the draft to move up if MB likes a prospect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I think Gilbert gets traded for a 3rd rounder. Emelin stays, he has a NTC. Tinordi gets dealt since he must clear waivers this year, along with Paterin, and he hasn't progressed in three years. He gets traded at the draft to move up if MB likes a prospect. So who do we have for depth on this blueline? Moving all those guys makes zero sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Trade Emelin (better value, higher salary dump), keep Gilbert for depth. Pateryn and Tinordi should stay with the team this year. Even Beaulieu. Pateryn played very well in the NHL this year and proved he needs to stay with the team. I see the top pairings as being: Markov-Subban Beaulieu-Petry Tinordi-Pateryn With Gilbert sitting in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I had not noticed before that our defence is pretty young. Markov (36)/ Subban(26)Beaulieu (22)/ Petry (27)Emelin (29)/ Gilbert (32)Tinordi (23)/ Pateryn (25) get rid of Gilbert and we have 1 guy over 30. That is a young defensive core. Looks real good for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 So who do we have for depth on this blueline? Moving all those guys makes zero sense Pateryn rock solid and has progressed. Watched him in hamilton for years. The player he was in 012 could not come close to playing the way he did for us down the stretch and in the play offs. Srarting to remind me of a young Ludwig. We have to start developing our own blue liners. Filling our back end with others teams cast offs has gone on long enough. Drafted Markov in the 90's and he is still on our top pair! Now I love Markov but that borders on pathetic. Tinordi and Patryn get another look to make this club. No brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Pateryn rock solid and has progressed. Watched him in hamilton for years. The player he was in 012 could not come close to playing the way he did for us down the stretch and in the play offs. Srarting to remind me of a young Ludwig. We have to start developing our own blue liners. Filling our back end with others teams cast offs has gone on long enough. Drafted Markov in the 90's and he is still on our top pair! Now I love Markov but that borders on pathetic. Tinordi and Patryn get another look to make this club. No brainer. Woah. We agree on stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Pateryn rock solid and has progressed. Watched him in hamilton for years. The player he was in 012 could not come close to playing the way he did for us down the stretch and in the play offs. Srarting to remind me of a young Ludwig. We have to start developing our own blue liners. Filling our back end with others teams cast offs has gone on long enough. Drafted Markov in the 90's and he is still on our top pair! Now I love Markov but that borders on pathetic. Tinordi and Patryn get another look to make this club. No brainer. Absolutely. I'm glad Pateryn got a good look this past season. He's a big boy back there. Beaulieu 6'2 pateryn 6'2 Tinordi 6'6 Petry 6'3. That's a big young blue line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 On his own, Emelin may bring a 3rd, because of that salary being a negative. Maybe a trade to another team with an overpaid, but "worth a chance" young player at forward or defense. Rght now I wouldn't make moving Emelin the priority, as the team stands he is ok in the top 6 of our depth chart. Gilbert, on his own, bring a 3rd as well, but because of a positive contract, and that is the rosterspot I would be looking to delete as opposed to having 8 D men, because of Tinordi and Pateryn having to clear waivers. I think Pateryn has proven he can play bottom pairing for sure, and I believe in Tinordi being able to be serviceable in terms of being on the Habs 2015/16 roster, and maybe just surprising the nay sayers about him. Keep Emelin and play him until a deal that works for a scorer can be worked out/put together with other pieces. Trade Gilbert at the draft to clear that roster spot... Pateryn at least can surely take his place in the line up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 On his own, Emelin may bring a 3rd, because of that salary being a negative. Maybe a trade to another team with an overpaid, but "worth a chance" young player at forward or defense. Rght now I wouldn't make moving Emelin the priority, as the team stands he is ok in the top 6 of our depth chart. Gilbert, on his own, bring a 3rd as well, but because of a positive contract, and that is the rosterspot I would be looking to delete as opposed to having 8 D men, because of Tinordi and Pateryn having to clear waivers. I think Pateryn has proven he can play bottom pairing for sure, and I believe in Tinordi being able to be serviceable in terms of being on the Habs 2015/16 roster, and maybe just surprising the nay sayers about him. Keep Emelin and play him until a deal that works for a scorer can be worked out/put together with other pieces. Trade Gilbert at the draft to clear that roster spot... Pateryn at least can surely take his place in the line up. Yeah I agree, try and trade Emelin if you can find a sucker who will give up some offence for him, but definitely delete Gilbert for something. In this draft a second rounder has a chance of being really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yeah I agree, try and trade Emelin if you can find a sucker who will give up some offence for him, but definitely delete Gilbert for something. In this draft a second rounder has a chance of being really good. If Gilbert was worth a second rounder then 90 % of the players in the nhl would be worth first rounders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 if Gilbert's contract were locked in for two or three years instead of one more, he'd be worth more than a second rounder. The simple fact is, the appeal of a player under contract is their value on the ice divided by their salary. Gilbert's not great, but he's better than 2.8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Gilbert isn't better than 2.8 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 i can see gilbert fetching a 2nd just by default of being an NHL ready RH defender. some may argue he is even that but he played a significant role and had plenty of TOI this season. and emelin is paid 4.1 million? that is not an albatross by any means... i would be interested in seeing a list of defenders paid between 3.5 and 4.5 M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 i would be interested in seeing a list of defenders paid between 3.5 and 4.5 M Cap hits in 2014-15 between $3.5 and $4.5 million (some figures rounded): Dan Boyle - 4.5 Braydon Coburn - 4.5 Dan Hamhuis - 4.5 Anton Stralman - 4.5 Nikita Nikitin - 4.5 Fedor Tyutin - 4.5 Jack Johnson - 4.36 Dmitry Kulikov - 4.33 Jonathan Ericsson - 4.25 Willie Mitchell - 4.25 Kyle Quincey - 4.25 Kevin Shattenkirk - 4.25 M-E Vlasic - 4.25 Slava Voynov - 4.17 Andrej Meszaros - 4.125 (UFA) Niklas Hjalmarsson - 4.1 Alexei Emelin - 4.1 Jake Gardiner - 4.05 Mark Giordano - 4.02 Christian Ehrhoff - 4.0 (UFA) Cam Fowler - 4.0 Victor Hedman - 4.0 Roman Josi - 4.0 Zbynek Michalek - 4.0 (UFA) Dennis Seidenberg - 4.0 Marc Staal - 3.98 (new extension kicks in next year at 5.7) John Carlson - 3.97 Josh Gorges - 3.9 Eric Brewer - 3.88 (UFA) J-M Liles - 3.88 Travis Hamonic - 3.86 Erik Johnson - 3.75 Justin Schultz - 3.68 (RFA) Sheldon Souray - 3.67 Mark Fayne - 3.63 Mattias Ohlund (LTIR) - 3.61 Luke Schenn - 3.6 Brad Stuart - 3.6 Bryan Allen - 3.5 (UFA) Francois Beauchemin - 3.5 (UFA) Nicklas Grossman - 3.5 Ladislav Smid - 3.5 Below that threshold in 14-15 but have new deals in that range starting in 15-16: Chris Tanev - 4.45 Jonas Brodin - 4.17 Alec Martinez - 4.0 Justin Braun - 3.8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 As far as measuring sticks go. If you have a team that can give Gilbert a fair chunk of consistent ice time............ you are a long way from a cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 As far as measuring sticks go. If you have a team that can give Gilbert a fair chunk of consistent ice time............ you are a long way from a cup. What exactly does that say about us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Josi at 4M until 2020. Awesome deal for the Preds ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 IMO both defensemen have good value. Emelin is well known for his physical play. Paired with a good partner, he might help a lot of teams out there. Mike Bossy would keep him with the team. «He is the only one to hit», does he say. Gilbert is not physical, but he is right-handed, has good mobility and can make a decent pass. A big plus for him: he looked at his best last season during the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Emelin is a typical deal for a player that appeals to old school fans and infuriates new school fans. $4M or around that was what Volchenkov, Gorges and Polak got. Komisarek got $5M and turned down $4M from Montreal. Luke Schenn gets $3.6M. That's the around rate for the stay at home defenceman that hits hard. Brooks Orpik got $5.5M because Washington was desperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 IMO both defensemen have good value. Emelin is well known for his physical play. Paired with a good partner, he might help a lot of teams out there. Mike Bossy would keep him with the team. «He is the only one to hit», does he say. Gilbert is not physical, but he is right-handed, has good mobility and can make a decent pass. A big plus for him: he looked at his best last season during the playoffs. Gilbert stinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Josi at 4M until 2020. Awesome deal for the Preds ! It is a good deal. I wonder though, with Tennessee having no state income tax, and US federal income tax being lower than in Canada too...how far off is Josi's deal from Petry's in terms of actual take-home pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 hedman girdano and fowler are great deals as well... hedman those are real savings especially hedman who should be one of the highest paid defensemen in hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 hedman girdano and fowler are great deals as well... hedman those are real savings especially hedman who should be one of the highest paid defensemen in hockey. and will on his next deal. Yzerman done a great job with that blue line. Adding Stralman and Garrison this season. Coburn was a good late edition for play offs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Hedman will win multiple Norris trophies..mark my words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Gilbert isn't better than 2.8 million Gilbert stinks. You're both wrong. Gilbert is simply an average NHL defenseman. You've got blinders on because he's not good. Your whole team can't be filled with good players. Ultimately, you can't even avoid having bad players. There's a salary cap. Every team has some guys among the best in the NHL at their position, and some guys among the worst. That's simply unavoidable. Tampa and Chicago have their own guys they'd rather not have, but they simply can't afford to have better. Gilbert is NOT among the worst defensemen. There were 272 defensemen who got ice time in the NHL this year. If you look at point totals alone (which don't do Gilbert justice) - his measly 12 points came 142nd out of 272, which is almost right in the middle of the pack. But point totals don't say everything. He was a +10 (on a team with far lower goal differentials than their final position in the standings would indicate.) He's mobile, he's responsible, he can carry the puck and make a good breakout pass, and he was 15th in the league in blocked shots (and this from a guy who tends overall to be a good possession player.) The league average for salary is 3 million, but that includes ELCs. When you take out ELCs, the league average goes up to about 3.5 million. That means, among veteran players, an "average" player should make 3.5 million. Gilbert is coming in at 700,000 less than that. Gilbert's contract is a steal. The simple fact is we don't need him at this point. He's a depth player for us. But his contract has real value. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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