habs rule Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 You're both wrong. Gilbert is simply an average NHL defenseman. You've got blinders on because he's not good. Your whole team can't be filled with good players. Ultimately, you can't even avoid having bad players. There's a salary cap. Every team has some guys among the best in the NHL at their position, and some guys among the worst. That's simply unavoidable. Tampa and Chicago have their own guys they'd rather not have, but they simply can't afford to have better. Gilbert is NOT among the worst defensemen. There were 272 defensemen who got ice time in the NHL this year. If you look at point totals alone (which don't do Gilbert justice) - his measly 12 points came 142nd out of 272, which is almost right in the middle of the pack. But point totals don't say everything. He was a +10 (on a team with far lower goal differentials than their final position in the standings would indicate.) He's mobile, he's responsible, he can carry the puck and make a good breakout pass, and he was 15th in the league in blocked shots (and this from a guy who tends overall to be a good possession player.) The league average for salary is 3 million, but that includes ELCs. When you take out ELCs, the league average goes up to about 3.5 million. That means, among veteran players, an "average" player should make 3.5 million. Gilbert is coming in at 700,000 less than that. Gilbert's contract is a steal. The simple fact is we don't need him at this point. He's a depth player for us. But his contract has real value. Ya know I can agree with that. My problem with Gilbert is the giveaways in our end in the playoffs. So as I have said before he is a 7th defenceman you bring in to cover for injury. But we gots us some dept so we don't need him and should trade him for what we can get. I mean a 2.8 m$ average defenceman must be worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick. We get a 2nd, he should be gone. We can do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 You're both wrong. Gilbert is simply an average NHL defenseman. You've got blinders on because he's not good. Your whole team can't be filled with good players. Ultimately, you can't even avoid having bad players. There's a salary cap. Every team has some guys among the best in the NHL at their position, and some guys among the worst. That's simply unavoidable. Tampa and Chicago have their own guys they'd rather not have, but they simply can't afford to have better. Gilbert is NOT among the worst defensemen. There were 272 defensemen who got ice time in the NHL this year. If you look at point totals alone (which don't do Gilbert justice) - his measly 12 points came 142nd out of 272, which is almost right in the middle of the pack. But point totals don't say everything. He was a +10 (on a team with far lower goal differentials than their final position in the standings would indicate.) He's mobile, he's responsible, he can carry the puck and make a good breakout pass, and he was 15th in the league in blocked shots (and this from a guy who tends overall to be a good possession player.) The league average for salary is 3 million, but that includes ELCs. When you take out ELCs, the league average goes up to about 3.5 million. That means, among veteran players, an "average" player should make 3.5 million. Gilbert is coming in at 700,000 less than that. Gilbert's contract is a steal. The simple fact is we don't need him at this point. He's a depth player for us. But his contract has real value. Yeah, he's gotten a lot better. I wanted him waived halfway through last year. He I what he is, a decent number 5 defenseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 It is a good deal. I wonder though, with Tennessee having no state income tax, and US federal income tax being lower than in Canada too...how far off is Josi's deal from Petry's in terms of actual take-home pay? A rough calculation using the percentages here. Josi: $4 M cap hit, $2,487,600 after taxes. Petry: $5.5 M cap hit, $2,796,200 after taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuternoga Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Gilbert should play a little bit more aggressive in my opinion. For example - Johnson's OT goal in regular season. Gilbert didn't hit him when he could and Johnson scored a goal. A rough calculation using the percentages here. Josi: $4 M cap hit, $2,487,600 after taxes. Petry: $5.5 M cap hit, $2,796,200 after taxes. Quebec, eh? This is brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yeah, he's gotten a lot better. I wanted him waived halfway through last year. He I what he is, a decent number 5 defenseman. Yea, he is one of those players that is needed to fill a roster. As florida got better they did not want him. Montreal will do the same. Yes we all know the cap forces you to carry players you would not have pre cap. Gilbert is one of them. I will say it again.......... if you have room to give gilbert consistent ice time every game...........your team is not in serious contention for a cup. Is his contract accurate and decent for what he brings to the table? Yes. YAY ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 You're both wrong. Gilbert is simply an average NHL defenseman. You've got blinders on because he's not good. Your whole team can't be filled with good players. Ultimately, you can't even avoid having bad players. There's a salary cap. Every team has some guys among the best in the NHL at their position, and some guys among the worst. That's simply unavoidable. Tampa and Chicago have their own guys they'd rather not have, but they simply can't afford to have better. Gilbert is NOT among the worst defensemen. There were 272 defensemen who got ice time in the NHL this year. If you look at point totals alone (which don't do Gilbert justice) - his measly 12 points came 142nd out of 272, which is almost right in the middle of the pack. But point totals don't say everything. He was a +10 (on a team with far lower goal differentials than their final position in the standings would indicate.) He's mobile, he's responsible, he can carry the puck and make a good breakout pass, and he was 15th in the league in blocked shots (and this from a guy who tends overall to be a good possession player.) The league average for salary is 3 million, but that includes ELCs. When you take out ELCs, the league average goes up to about 3.5 million. That means, among veteran players, an "average" player should make 3.5 million. Gilbert is coming in at 700,000 less than that. Gilbert's contract is a steal. The simple fact is we don't need him at this point. He's a depth player for us. But his contract has real value. You weren't watching games this year then my friend. He was awful 90% of the time. There were countless times he'd miss fire a 10 foot outlet pass. There's no question he was better in the playoffs, but I wouldn't pay a dime more than 2.8 for a guy who couldn't be trusted with puck for the better part of the season. You know why Jeff Petry was brought in? Because Gilbert wasn't getting the job done as that good first pass RH D-man who can jump up in the play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Quebec, eh? This is brutal. I didn't go through all the teams but the California teams came in a bit higher than Montreal which was a surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You weren't watching games this year then my friend. He was awful 90% of the time. There were countless times he'd miss fire a 10 foot outlet pass. There's no question he was better in the playoffs, but I wouldn't pay a dime more than 2.8 for a guy who couldn't be trusted with puck for the better part of the season. You know why Jeff Petry was brought in? Because Gilbert wasn't getting the job done as that good first pass D-man who can jump up in the play Bang on. I am not one of those fans that see a player like Gilbert have 6 good games out of 90 and hope he plays next season like he did the six good ones. Hedman will win multiple Norris trophies..mark my words Would not doubt it. He is a beast out there. You're both wrong. Gilbert is simply an average NHL defenseman. You've got blinders on because he's not good. Your whole team can't be filled with good players. Ultimately, you can't even avoid having bad players. There's a salary cap. Every team has some guys among the best in the NHL at their position, and some guys among the worst. That's simply unavoidable. Tampa and Chicago have their own guys they'd rather not have, but they simply can't afford to have better. Gilbert is NOT among the worst defensemen. There were 272 defensemen who got ice time in the NHL this year. If you look at point totals alone (which don't do Gilbert justice) - his measly 12 points came 142nd out of 272, which is almost right in the middle of the pack. But point totals don't say everything. He was a +10 (on a team with far lower goal differentials than their final position in the standings would indicate.) He's mobile, he's responsible, he can carry the puck and make a good breakout pass, and he was 15th in the league in blocked shots (and this from a guy who tends overall to be a good possession player.) The league average for salary is 3 million, but that includes ELCs. When you take out ELCs, the league average goes up to about 3.5 million. That means, among veteran players, an "average" player should make 3.5 million. Gilbert is coming in at 700,000 less than that. Gilbert's contract is a steal. The simple fact is we don't need him at this point. He's a depth player for us. But his contract has real value. You and Gilberts agent ever been seen in the same room at the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 A rough calculation using the percentages here. Josi: $4 M cap hit, $2,487,600 after taxes. Petry: $5.5 M cap hit, $2,796,200 after taxes. Thanks for running those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You weren't watching games this year then my friend. He was awful 90% of the time. There were countless times he'd miss fire a 10 foot outlet pass. You know why Jeff Petry was brought in? Because Gilbert wasn't getting the job done as that good first pass RH D-man who can jump up in the play I reckon so too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Don't be surprised when Chiarelli brings Claude Julien to town and they add a few pieces and turn it around. Trust me, they're closer than most ppl here think they are. "Most people" know they are close. No secret there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Chiarelli is one of the few GM's to have built a perennial contender..he'll help for sure. Julien is out, so I guess I was wrong about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Chiarelli is one of the few GM's to have built a perennial contender..he'll help for sure. Julien is out, so I guess I was wrong about him. Yes he will shore up the blue line. Get a goalie and voila. We all know first hand that a great goaltender can take a low seeded team with some major talent sprinkled in, and turn them into a 110 point club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I didn't go through all the teams but the California teams came in a bit higher than Montreal which was a surprise. Too many social welfare programs. My old state didn't have income or sales tax, and I don't remember anyone starving to death. Imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Too many social welfare programs. My old state didn't have income or sales tax, and I don't remember anyone starving to death. Imagine that. My old province had some social programs. I don't remember anyone going bankrupt because of health problems. Funny thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 My old province had some social programs. I don't remember anyone going bankrupt because of health problems. Funny thing. :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 How the hell did we get onto social welfare programs? These are million dollar athletes, who live a life of privilege and luxury. How can they possily relate to social welfare programs. Taxes they can understand if their accountant helps them, cause math is hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 My old province had some social programs. I don't remember anyone going bankrupt because of health problems. Funny thing. You deserve a pat on the back for giving up most of your check to the government. I guess that's why all the big American companies are bringing jobs to Canada. Oh wait. They're not. I, myself, am hard at work. Millions of welfare depend on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Just a thought Lovett: What's your opinion on drug-testing welfare recipients? Is it a violation of their rights, or something that may become a mandatory obligation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 This is without doubt most sudden tangeant I've seen in the history of the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Just a thought Lovett: What's your opinion on drug-testing welfare recipients? Is it a violation of their rights, or something that may become a mandatory obligation? I don't like it because it expands the powers of the State and we would need a lot more government to make that policy happen. I'm Libertarian; I don't think anyone besides criminals should be able to be drug tested. Drug tests are really unreliable. The worst are Gimme Girls and their 50 kids eating off food stamps, but that's too much of a tangent for me to go on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I agree..plus drug tests are approximately $225 per individual, and you-know-who will end up paying for it.. So that seems illogical as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 You deserve a pat on the back for giving up most of your check to the government. I guess that's why all the big American companies are bringing jobs to Canada. Oh wait. They're not. I, myself, am hard at work. Millions of welfare depend on me. You're actually hard at work so the taxes that the rich are avoiding can at least be paid by you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I agree..plus drug tests are approximately $225 per individual, and you-know-who will end up paying for it.. So that seems illogical as well. The middle class tax payer touches a lot of lives. My favorite welfare story is filling out some state paperwork for section 8...in my own apartment complex. That's right, a part-time call center employee lives free in the same complex as the big boss man. Welcome to America. The people who do nothing got everything. I'm sure it's only worse in Canada, with the outrageous taxes going to everyone but the people who earn them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Not sure what this has to do with value of Gilbert-Emelin but; Taxs don't seem outrageous price to pay for living in best country in world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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