habs rule Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Pk Subban is a charismatic franchise defenceman. Easily the single best position player on this team in every facet of the game and one of the very best players in hockey. If he's not a superstar. he's very close. And he will go down as one of the great Montreal Canadiens defenceman. He makes mistakes. So does ANY player who is creative, dynamic, and willing to take risks in order to make things happen. That's what it means to have a star player. Larry Robinson made mistakes too. Perhaps Montreal fans have forgotten this, since we haven't had a player of PK's calibre since Guy Lafleur. If you ask me, the weakness in PK's game is his first stride. By the second stride, he is nearly unstoppable, but that first stride is choppy and often raises alarm when it looks like he's not going to be able to pull away from a checker or get out of a jam. I think that if his first stride were not so dodgy, this myth of him as a 'high risk defender' would never have been started in the first place. I never found him especially high-risk, not even when he was a rookie, because I noticed right away that he got himself out of jams about 99% of the time. His rep has been a victim of a ridiculously risk-averse coaching culture. Of all the things we could be posting and arguing about, PK Subban is LAST. We are lucky to have one of the most exciting and effective players in hockey, and we get to watch him, hopefully, for the next decade. Enjoy it. Larry Robinson never made a mistake in his career, you take that back. I am kidding btw. I agree with this post in it's entirety. Why do you guess it was a mistake? Mostly because Hamhuis can't carry PK's bag to the arena. Pk is about 17 times better than Hamhuis on his worst night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Maybe Babcock wanted no part of having Subban's ego in the room? Maybe the icy glares from Pacioretty towards Subban also hint at Subban not being a player's player and part of reason team is floundering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 How does this topic even get 2 pages of reply's... This is dumb! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I think he tries to do too much sometimes. Defensively he doesn't seem as physical this year Misses the net too often, pretty darn good other than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 How does this topic even get 2 pages of reply's... This is dumb! It is really forking dum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Aside from an injured Price and Gallagher, Subban would be at the bottom of the blame list. As for Plekanec, he certainly deserves blame for a scoring slump but not as bad as other supposed centres on the team. There's a big difference between get him off the team now (Emelin, DD, Eller) and get your S together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Aside from an injured Price and Gallagher, Subban would be at the bottom of the blame list. As for Plekanec, he certainly deserves blame for a scoring slump but not as bad as other supposed centres on the team. There's a big difference between get him off the team now (Emelin, DD, Eller) and get your S together. Pleks just isn't producing offence as a top-6 C should. But he does bring other attributes. Now Desharnais? Not an NHL player. Not this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Pleks just isn't producing offence as a top-6 C should. But he does bring other attributes. Now Desharnais? Not an NHL player. Not this season. It's hard to evaluate a team that went from the top in the league to the bottom of the league. Plek had 24 points in 25 games between the start of the year and December 1st. DD had 17 in 25, Eller 10 in 25. December 2nd to today, Plekanec has had 11 points in 26 games. DD has 7 in 26, Eller 5 in 26. Because this is about Subban, during our slump he has been our scoring leader with 18 points in 26 games. As a defenceman. For all the "He's not scoring enough" he's fifth in goal scoring in that span, which goes to tell you how poorly we've been scoring goals. While +/- is a broken statistic, he's been our second best defenceman for +/- in that stretch (behind Barberio's -1 in 14 games) with a -5 in 26 games, playing the top lines all the time. Petry and Emelin have been our worst at -14 and -12 respectively. Subban deserves to come out of this season with a minimal amount of blame. He's on a team that completely bottomed out, unable to score and he's still 4th in defenceman scoring in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Pleks just isn't producing offence as a top-6 C should. But he does bring other attributes. Now Desharnais? Not an NHL player. Not this season. On the whole this season he's still on pace for 56 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 On the whole this season he's still on pace for 56 points. 11 points in his last 26 games is a tough pill to swallow for anyone. But at least he has that point per game pace early in the year to fall back on. Eller has nothing to fall back on. DD had decent numbers too but he doesn't bring anything to the table when he isn't scoring, and he's a constant crutch for Therrien. Therrien (or the next coach) needs to stick to Galchenyuk/Plekanec next year down the middle and have something new to use for the third line C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) 11 points in his last 26 games is a tough pill to swallow for anyone. But at least he has that point per game pace early in the year to fall back on. Eller has nothing to fall back on. DD had decent numbers too but he doesn't bring anything to the table when he isn't scoring, and he's a constant crutch for Therrien. Therrien (or the next coach) needs to stick to Galchenyuk/Plekanec next year down the middle and have something new to use for the third line C. Plekanec has 4 goals in his last 46 games. Dlbalr has a good site(which I forget) that shows secondary assists. I'd almost guarantee 70% of Pleks helpers secondary.I understand you guys like Plek, but he's not the same player he once was. 6 mill is too much for him moving forward Edited February 4, 2016 by Stogey24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Plekanec has 3 goals in his last 35 games. Dlbalr has a good site(which I forget) that shows secondary assists. I'd almost guarantee 70% of Pleks helpers secondary. I understand you guys like Plek, but he's not the same player he once was. 6 mill is too much for him moving forward It's not about liking him but seeing that this team absolutely rock bottomed and we need to get rid of the worst offenders before we rid of the 50/50 guys. Plek is a 50/50 guy. He was leading our team in scoring and then bottomed out. DD and Eller need to be first on the block. What are we going to do, trade all three and have a centre depth next year of Galchenyuk/Mitchell/Flynn/McCarron? Yeah, that's a recipe for success. Trade the two underachievers, give the guy that we know can perform top six another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 It's not about liking him but seeing that this team absolutely rock bottomed and we need to get rid of the worst offenders before we rid of the 50/50 guys. Plek is a 50/50 guy. He was leading our team in scoring and then bottomed out. DD and Eller need to be first on the block. What are we going to do, trade all three and have a centre depth next year of Galchenyuk/Mitchell/Flynn/McCarron? Yeah, that's a recipe for success. Trade the two underachievers, give the guy that we know can perform top six another year. Giving a guy 6 millions dollars with 4 goals in over half the season really sounds like a recipe for success too. Teams will risk trading some assets on Plekanec having a bounce back year. If he shits the bed next year, Bergevin will get next to nothing; if he can even move his contract by that point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 11 points in his last 26 games is a tough pill to swallow for anyone. But at least he has that point per game pace early in the year to fall back on. Eller has nothing to fall back on. DD had decent numbers too but he doesn't bring anything to the table when he isn't scoring, and he's a constant crutch for Therrien. Therrien (or the next coach) needs to stick to Galchenyuk/Plekanec next year down the middle and have something new to use for the third line C. The entire team isn't scoring. I see this as a blip for Plekanec that comes at the same time everyone else has gone cold more than an indication that he is done as a player, not at 33 years old. And not after a solid season last year (and a good start this year). This is more an indication of the lack of top 6 talent. Have two competent lines and opposing teams can't focus as much on our few key guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Giving a guy 6 millions dollars with 4 goals in over half the season really sounds like a recipe for success too. Teams will risk trading some assets on Plekanec having a bounce back year. If he shits the bed next year, Bergevin will get next to nothing; if he can even move his contract by that point I don't understand why you're focusing on Plekanec. Because he just got a new contract? This "Assists mean nothing" attitude is bizarre too. Since December we haven't had a single player score more than seven goals, and that's Pacioretty, a guy who is getting flogged hard by the fans for not doing enough. Paul Byron and Daniel Carr have been scoring more goals than most of the team. December and January have been messed up. Just like October and November were messed up... in our favour. But I mean, continue thinking Plekanec is the guy we should move for assets to become a better team next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I don't understand why you're focusing on Plekanec. Because he just got a new contract? This "Assists mean nothing" attitude is bizarre too. Since December we haven't had a single player score more than seven goals, and that's Pacioretty, a guy who is getting flogged hard by the fans for not doing enough. Paul Byron and Daniel Carr have been scoring more goals than most of the team. December and January have been messed up. Just like October and November were messed up... in our favour. But I mean, continue thinking Plekanec is the guy we should move for assets to become a better team next year. Plekanec is the highest paid forward on this team, wearing an A, and getting top line minutes. Why would I not be focusing attention on him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Plekanec's problem is Koivu disease. Paid like a second liner. Producing like an elite second liner. Forced into a #1 role cause montreal lacks a number 1 centre. Nothing wrong with Plekanec individually. Lack of the true franchise pivot is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Plekanec has 4 goals in his last 46 games. Dlbalr has a good site(which I forget) that shows secondary assists. I'd almost guarantee 70% of Pleks helpers secondary. 60% primary, 40% secondary. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=all&pos=skaters&minutes=50&teamid=16&type=individual&sort=ifassists&sortdir=DESC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Plekanec is the highest paid forward on this team, wearing an A, and getting top line minutes. Why would I not be focusing attention on him? Because he hasn't been as bad as others, still brings lots to the table, was our best forward in the first 25 games and "highest paid forward" sounds big until you realize it's only $6M? Eller and DD combined have only four more points than Plekanec. They make $7M combined. Get rid of that first before you worry about getting rid of a guy who still sits 26th in scoring for all centres in the NHL. Plekanec has been bad. DD has been worse. Eller has been worse. Trade all three or Plekanec plus one of them and we have no centre depth. Trade Eller and DD and we still have two top six centres. What makes logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Because he hasn't been as bad as others, still brings lots to the table, was our best forward in the first 25 games and "highest paid forward" sounds big until you realize it's only $6M? Eller and DD combined have only four more points than Plekanec. They make $7M combined. Get rid of that first before you worry about getting rid of a guy who still sits 26th in scoring for all centres in the NHL. Plekanec has been bad. DD has been worse. Eller has been worse. Trade all three or Plekanec plus one of them and we have no centre depth. Trade Eller and DD and we still have two top six centres. What makes logic? My point is that Plekanec hasn't even played like a top 6 centre. I don't care about the first 25 games. This team was 9-0 to start the year, what does that mean now? NOTHING. I don't care about Desharnais or Eller, they aren't top 6 players. My focus is on the guy who has road shot gun the entire season, yet produced like a 3rd liner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I actually think it is PK's offensive brain farts that are more obvious than his defensive ones. He seems to give the puck up a lot in the offensive zone by doing one too many moves... but at the same time I rewatch it and not sure who else was moving on the ice trying to give him an outlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 60% primary, 40% secondary. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=all&pos=skaters&minutes=50&teamid=16&type=individual&sort=ifassists&sortdir=DESC 10 primary, 15 secondary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 10 primary, 15 secondary Yeah, I meant to type 60/40 secondary...that's what I get for not proofreading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 PK is not the frigging problem on this team. We need another ahl goalie. Or maybe another 4th line slogger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 PK is not the frigging problem on this team. We need another ahl goalie. Or maybe another 4th line slogger. Zoot Suit, is that you?!? Who knew the GM surfs this site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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