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Distraction Thread - How much will Carey cost us after 17-18?


zumpano21

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What team is getting lots of 6-3 wins?

I'm still of the mindset from the other thread.

Pay Subban, Price, Stamkos (or other elite C) big bucks - $30 million +

Get some other talent around them ala Max, Petry, 2nd line centre.

Fill out your first lines on guys with ELCs, and other ways to find cheaper complimentary talent (Gallagher's contract is a great example)

Fill out the bottom 6 and bottom pairing D on the cheap. (1-1.5 million each)

Cheap backup (under 1 million)

Thats the formula..... Elite goalie, elite C, elite D, and fill in the rest.

By the time price is ready to be paid, we can clear the contracts that are really killing us and replace them cheaper... the Eller, Desharnais, Emelin deals. Even Plek will be gone (and hopefully replaced by chucky, but if not you find a way).]

Chicago has been playing tight with the cap for a while. They can dump some good players in Sharp, Ladd, Byfuglien, Saad, etc... they make those hard choices and bounce back cause they have their core (in their case Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith, Crawford) locked up.

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What team is getting lots of 6-3 wins?

I'm still of the mindset from the other thread.

Pay Subban, Price, Stamkos (or other elite C) big bucks - $30 million +

Get some other talent around them ala Max, Petry, 2nd line centre.

Fill out your first lines on guys with ELCs, and other ways to find cheaper complimentary talent (Gallagher's contract is a great example)

Fill out the bottom 6 and bottom pairing D on the cheap. (1-1.5 million each)

Cheap backup (under 1 million)

Thats the formula..... Elite goalie, elite C, elite D, and fill in the rest.

Dallas seem to get a lot of these high scoring games W.

But they use 2 goalies with substancial salaries. Now, I'm sure they could probably achieve that with only one of the 2 goalie though.

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Dallas seem to get a lot of these high scoring games W.

But they use 2 goalies with substancial salaries. Now, I'm sure they could probably achieve that with only one of the 2 goalie though.

They tried that last year, and it didn't work.

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Bingo.

Hes a very good goalie but hes not in the class of price, rinne, lundqvist, holtby who are proving to be elite.

He has 2 cups.... sure but look at his team. That doesnt move him from very good to elite top 5 guy.

He has a conn smythe. Great he played well in 2010. Cant take that from him. But we also cant take away cam wards conn smythe and ward is hot garbage now. Quick is an above average goalie but not elite

How do you put Pekka Rinne in? He hasn't gone deep in the post-season once.

Holtby is still unproven in the 2nd season but looks like he is panning out to be a top 5 goalie. He could break that category, but I'd still take Jonathan Quick over him. The offence up front eclipses and pads his stats (Just like Corey Crawford).

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Quick

.907

.918

.928

.902

.915

.918

.920

Rinne

.917

.911

.930

.922

.910

.902 (injury year)

.923

.905

Rinne has gone over 920 for a full season 3 times in his career as a starter. Quick has only done it once (and is at 920 exactly for this year in an attempt to do it twice).

Price on the other hand has done it 4 times in his career (including 2 seasons over 930)
Holtby has done it twice in the last 3 years, and at .924 this year looks like he'll be doing it 3 out of his 4 years as a starter. He's already elite.

Tuukka Rask should also be considered there too, with 3 seasons as a starter, and one as a backup over 920.

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Quick

.907

.918

.928

.902

.915

.918

.920

Rinne

.917

.911

.930

.922

.910

.902 (injury year)

.923

.905

Rinne has gone over 920 for a full season 3 times in his career as a starter. Quick has only done it once (and is at 920 exactly for this year in an attempt to do it twice).

Price on the other hand has done it 4 times in his career (including 2 seasons over 930)

Holtby has done it twice in the last 3 years, and at .924 this year looks like he'll be doing it 3 out of his 4 years as a starter. He's already elite.

Tuukka Rask should also be considered there too, with 3 seasons as a starter, and one as a backup over 920.

These are all numbers, please don't be one of those statistics don't lie people?

If you are a numbers guy, you can't justify Rinne's post-season struggles. Name the last time a goalie from Fin origin beyond Niemi (who had a stellar team in front of him) that won the Stanley Cup?

What I am implying here...stats can be misleading and can lead people to be very results oriented.

EX: look at Justin Williams: rises to the occasion every single post-season. Brian Bickell, same deal. On paper, you might think these guys are middle of the pack at best, but the 2nd season proves to be a whole new one.

Jonathan Quick is the goaltender version of these players, he not only can contribute in regular season but also when it's all on the line, thus making him a top 5 (if not 3) goalie in the NHL.

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Brian Bickell rises to the occassion every post season... is that why he had 0 goals on a cup winning hawks team last year.

Justin Williams ppg in the regular season and playoffs is pretty much equal.

-----------------------

Jonathan Quick had a great playoff in 2012, no doubt about it. In 2014, he had a rather pedestrian playoff, with a mere 911 save percentage, but won the cup cause LA was that damn good as a team.

Lets forget about these narratives about "clutch", "stepping up in the playoffs" and all that. They are myths... media narratives... thats it.

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Lets forget about these narratives about "clutch", "stepping up in the playoffs" and all that. They are myths... media narratives... thats it.

Naw man, that's BS.

Lots of players have came up big in the playoffs, bigger than they ever showed in their careers, you know that.

I'm not saying they do it every year, or more than once, but some players play the style that is better in the playoff type season.

Every one else that covers or watches hockey cannot possibly be wrong, like you are now.

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IN 2014 quicks save percentage was skewed by his and his teams brutal start, where he let in 17 or 18 goals in the first 3 games. He was the main reason for the comeback against the Sharks. While both him and Crawford were average in the Chicago series, he was lights out in the finals.

Brian Bickell rises to the occassion every post season... is that why he had 0 goals on a cup winning hawks team last year.

Justin Williams ppg in the regular season and playoffs is pretty much equal.

-----------------------

Jonathan Quick had a great playoff in 2012, no doubt about it. In 2014, he had a rather pedestrian playoff, with a mere 911 save percentage, but won the cup cause LA was that damn good as a team.

Lets forget about these narratives about "clutch", "stepping up in the playoffs" and all that. They are myths... media narratives... thats it.

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IN 2014 quicks save percentage was skewed by his and his teams brutal start, where he let in 17 or 18 goals in the first 3 games. He was the main reason for the comeback against the Sharks. While both him and Crawford were average in the Chicago series, he was lights out in the finals.

In that post-season, 14 of his 26 games had a save percentage under .920, 10 of which were under .900.

Claude Lemieux

Points per game in the season: 0.65

Points per game in the playoffs: 0.675

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players just dont want to pay the price over 82 games.... but those months after april when you got to go to the dirty areas, crash and bang and "pay the price" etc. to succeed... its those guys who turn that switch on that are labeled playoff performers. eller for example didnt have a huge playoff series (points) LY but he did play very well over the 2 rounds for the 2nd consecutive playoff year... on a side note 3 seasons ago he was hands down our best forward going into the playoffs before getting targeted and knocked out!

does he step up during the playoffs?

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I don't think you can completely discount players' performance in the postseason or clutch situations vs regular season and nothing games.

Markov, for my money, has not stood out in a positive way in the playoffs for us - the best series I can think of from him was against Washington in 2010, while there were several years that I remember thinking he was poor. There are many factors in this, for sure, but under the postseason microscope he's underperformed vs his regular season career with us.

I agree that it's largely media labels and narratives, and there's also the way the refs put away their whistles.

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I agree that it's largely media labels and narratives, and there's also the way the refs put away their whistles.

The whistles is a factor.

Generally though if a player is good 5v5 and not PP reliant in the regular season, he'll be fine in the playoffs (given a large enough sample size).

During the regular season players get hot/get cold all the time. Its random, we can't really predict when the next streak is coming. The issue with the playoffs is that its all about small samples. One good or bad streak makes you look like a playoff hero or a playoff zero. But its just another random streak.

Look at John Druce or Fernando Pisani... for all their playoff heroics in one year, they were never able to repeat them in other seasons.

that tells me its merely a lucky streak, and not some innate ability they have to step up year after year.

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players just dont want to pay the price over 82 games.... but those months after april when you got to go to the dirty areas, crash and bang and "pay the price" etc. to succeed... its those guys who turn that switch on that are labeled playoff performers. eller for example didnt have a huge playoff series (points) LY but he did play very well over the 2 rounds for the 2nd consecutive playoff year... on a side note 3 seasons ago he was hands down our best forward going into the playoffs before getting targeted and knocked out!

does he step up during the playoffs?

The funny thing is that if you look at 2014 and 2015, there's only one consistent fact: some of our best scorers in the playoffs were our bottom six forwards.

In 2014, it was Rene Bourque and Lars Eller. In 2015 it's Brian Flynn and Torrey Mitchell.

Rene Bourque was one of our best scorers in 2013 and in 2014 but everyone was fine with ditching him quick. Eller was on a hot streak at the end of 2013 the got hurt fast, then had a good 2014 with Bourque, then did nothing in 2015. Yet he still gets a playoff performer label.

The one guy in Montreal who actually deserves the title of playoff performer is the guy who has led us in playoff scoring for three straight years now: P.K. Subban. And even then, he's just scoring at the same rate as he does in the season.

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my apologies.... the only way to judge a players play in the playoffs is by how many points he gets.... forget every other intangible that comes with playing this game... if you dont get a goal or an assist..... you did sweet f'all.

if Max Pacioretty isnt scoring in the playoffs he's having a bad playoffs, if plex isnt scoring in the playoffs he's having a bad playoffs... those guys are in scoring roles playing on the top line!! if they arent scoring they arent performing in their roles on this team... eller up until like 5 games ago has been a secondary player with very limited minutes in a scoring role at best. when the habs decide to role him out consistently in the top #2 with scoring wingers... we'll judge him on points!

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are you kidding me?? claude lemieux defines stepping up in the playoffs!!

-he's won stanley cups on 3 different teams playing key roles for all of them!

-he's won a conn smythe and hes won playoff MVP in junior for crying out loud

-i believe he's also top 10 all time in playoff goals?? (i need to check that..)

Claude Lemieux has "paid the price" in the playoffs more so then most players that i can remember... id take him any day of the week for the playoffs!!

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Rene Bourque was one of if not our best forward for each of the 4 playoff series we had with him. Something in the old noggin ticked on and he would use his size, grit, and nose for the net shift after shift. The problem was the 82 game slog was too long to put up with an unfocused, floating corpse. He might have the most striking discrepancy between regular and post- season that I can think of.

There's reason to believe Dale Weise could be a similarly clutch guy, but the jury's still out. His style of play and attitude would be a welcome addition to most contenders' bottom lines, methinks.

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The whistles is a factor.

Generally though if a player is good 5v5 and not PP reliant in the regular season, he'll be fine in the playoffs (given a large enough sample size).

During the regular season players get hot/get cold all the time. Its random, we can't really predict when the next streak is coming. The issue with the playoffs is that its all about small samples. One good or bad streak makes you look like a playoff hero or a playoff zero. But its just another random streak.

Look at John Druce or Fernando Pisani... for all their playoff heroics in one year, they were never able to repeat them in other seasons.

that tells me its merely a lucky streak, and not some innate ability they have to step up year after year.

agree totally on the john druces and pisani's of the world.

which brings us to eller again and why his points total in LY playoffs dont tell the whole story... Sure he wasnt "hot" like the year prior with weise and bourque, but he still played very well in the playoffs and he was extremely hot going into the playoffs the year before that and looking to play a huge role until he was taken out by gudas.

im not saying he's "the man" in the playoffs. im just saying through 82 games plus playoffs, he seems to play his best hockey after march

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are you kidding me?? claude lemieux defines stepping up in the playoffs!!

-he's won stanley cups on 3 different teams playing key roles for all of them!

-he's won a conn smythe and hes won playoff MVP in junior for crying out loud

-i believe he's also top 10 all time in playoff goals?? (i need to check that..)

Claude Lemieux has "paid the price" in the playoffs more so then most players that i can remember... id take him any day of the week for the playoffs!!

Claude Lemieux was a very good player

He was very good in the regular season, and very good in the playoffs.

The problem with the Claude Lemieux playoff myth is that it makes it sound like he was some third line scrub in regular seasons, and first liner in the playoffs. Which is not true.

He was the same scorer in the regular season as he was in the playoffs.

The PPG difference is .025

The number of seasons he had a better PPG in the playoffs vs regular season... is exactly equal to the number of seasons he had a better regular season than playoffs in his career.

He didn't step up in the playoffs. He played the exact same as he did in the regular season. And overall should just be remembered as pretty darn good.

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Rene Bourque was one of if not our best forward for each of the 4 playoff series we had with him. Something in the old noggin ticked on and he would use his size, grit, and nose for the net shift after shift. The problem was the 82 game slog was too long to put up with an unfocused, floating corpse. He might have the most striking discrepancy between regular and post- season that I can think of.

There's reason to believe Dale Weise could be a similarly clutch guy, but the jury's still out. His style of play and attitude would be a welcome addition to most contenders' bottom lines, methinks.

yet for some reason rene bourque wasn't very good for the norfolk admirals in the AHL playoffs, and wasn't very good the the Calgary Flames in his only playoff series with them.

He also had an insanely high shooting percentage in the 2014 playoffs, something that isn't likely to repeat. I'm not buying this playoff warrior rene bourque motif.

agree totally on the john druces and pisani's of the world.

which brings us to eller again and why his points total in LY playoffs dont tell the whole story... Sure he wasnt "hot" like the year prior with weise and bourque, but he still played very well in the playoffs and he was extremely hot going into the playoffs the year before that and looking to play a huge role until he was taken out by gudas.

im not saying he's "the man" in the playoffs. im just saying through 82 games plus playoffs, he seems to play his best hockey after march

Lars Eller was the same player in the 2015 playoffs, as he is in every regular season. A defensively responsible guy, who has good puck possession, but doesnt' score much.

I don't call that stepping up. I call that being the same third line player he normally is.

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