Canadiens vs Flyers - 7 PM GDT

[Neech]

He's gotten better, I think his new bosses at SportsLogiq/SN warned him. (Much like Randy Moeller in the Fox Sports broadcasts vs local radio).

I can tolerate fancy stats analysis if it comes together as a larger instructive narrative. Travis Yost does a great job of this at TSN. What I dislike is dogmatic writing that portends to be indisputable fact.

Yeah, Berkshire has gotten better, and it surely hasn't been on his own, given his history of assholery. His writing style is coming along, and the charts that pepper his articles have improved. Advanced stats have come a long way in the last 3 years, and they'll surely be a lot further in another 3 years. From a fan of the NBA, which has way more intelligent people thinking and working hard on its theory, this is good news.

[Commandant]

Talbot came in and gave the rangers 925 goaltending.

Our goalies have been below 900

Yeah i guess the difference is coaching. Vigneault must have told talbot to stop the puck. Therrien obviously forgot to tell his guys that.

[KoRP]

Talbot came in and gave the rangers 925 goaltending.

Our goalies have been below 900

Yeah i guess the difference is coaching. Vigneault must have told talbot to stop the puck. Therrien obviously forgot to tell his guys that.

Therrien DID tell them that, but they need to discover where their body is in relation to the net...

[Commandant]

Therrien DID tell them that, but they need to discover where their body is in relation to the net...

But larry brooks said its all coaching. It couldnt be something the players or goalies are doing wrong.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The goaltending has been mediocre, and that is at the root of our disastrous season.

We can, legitimately, complain about a small number of huge defensive breakdowns each game. The fact is, though, that modern NHL goaltending is really excellent. Where the other team's goalie, faced with the breakdown in question, will make the save as often as not, our guys don't. In the absence of an overpowering offence, those goals against are back-breakers. Bottom line: other teams get the big saves. We don't.

[JoeLassister]

If we could get them to attend every home game, and make the team realize this phenomenon and bring them on the road....

SHOW ME THE MONEY !!!

Thanks Joe. Thanks cool chick Joe goes out with.

You're welcome.

We were not very confident when our first 2 shooters missed...

[Machine of Loving Grace]

The goaltending has been mediocre, and that is at the root of our disastrous season

The goaltending stands out because we're used to the best player in the world between the pipes. Even if Price was there and 100% healthy, doesn't change the fact we could only score two goals or less per game. That's the root of the problem. Plus a management that sat back and watched it saying, "Eh, it's puck luck, it'll go our way eventually" instead of being, you know, pro-active.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

But larry brooks said its all coaching. It couldnt be something the players or goalies are doing wrong.

That was very silly of him, especially when he proclaimed the Habs' window was not only shut, but broken.

You don't want to blame Condon, because he's exceeded expectations overall, but they haven't gotten NHL starter caliber tending from him, and even worse from Scrivens and Tokarski.

I'm pretty optimistic about next year:

-New coach

-Top-5 pick (likely imo)

-UFA acquisition

-Price

Two top-6 guys, MVP goalie, a real top-6 and a coach with half a brain, maybe more.

[Commandant]

The goaltending stands out because we're used to the best player in the world between the pipes. Even if Price was there and 100% healthy, doesn't change the fact we could only score two goals or less per game. That's the root of the problem. Plus a management that sat back and watched it saying, "Eh, it's puck luck, it'll go our way eventually" instead of being, you know, pro-active.

Yes, Price is the best goalie in the game.

But make no mistake, its not just missing elite goaltending. Its missing any form of goaltening whatsoever. Since December 1st... nearly 3 months... our save percentage as a team is dead last in the NHL... and not by small margins. Its ABSOLUTE DEAD LAST by a considerable amount, something like 010 - 020 points

If we had just average NHL goaltending... just AVERAGE.... 916 instead of 900. We stop enough goals to put us in the playoffs.

On top of that the goalscoring goes up. When we are down 1-0, 2-0 cause goalies don't make early saves, other teams get the chance to sit back and defend and that reduces our offence as well.

Thirdly the fact we can't trust our goalies means we sit back more, try to defend better and take away some offensive opportunities. Anyone who has played hockey knows that teams play differently when they don't trust the goalies.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Games Montreal have lost by three goals or less since December: 12

Games Montreal have lost by four goals or more since December: 10

In the past month has been six of those 4 goals or more games.

No doubt, both are issues and lack of scoring can be contributed to the loss of Carey Price, but in December we had eight games where we scored either one goal or no goal. Our lack of goal scoring was definitely a bigger issue at the start of the slump.

[habs rule]

The goaltending has been mediocre, and that is at the root of our disastrous season.

We can, legitimately, complain about a small number of huge defensive breakdowns each game. The fact is, though, that modern NHL goaltending is really excellent. Where the other team's goalie, faced with the breakdown in question, will make the save as often as not, our guys don't. In the absence of an overpowering offence, those goals against are back-breakers. Bottom line: other teams get the big saves. We don't.

you would be right if you compare the goal tending to Carey. But if the system is so forking good where the fork is the defence? Where is this great forking system that Le Genius has? OH sorry he can't go "Hey Carey you good to go?" Sure blame the forking goalies, for crying out loud, where the fork is the rest of the team? Do the forwards score? NO. Do they back check, maybe sometimes, not often. Do the defence cover up? NO. do the forwards come back and help the defence? NO. Where is this fantastic forking system that Le Genius has? OH fork he is injured. The easiest forking excuse is to blame the goalie. These poor schmucks are being lead to the slaughter every night with no and I mean NO support, and you blame the goal-tending. Great analysis. Pathetic in my view. I have been in those situations, have you? This team resembles it's coach PURE SHIT.

[hab29RETIRED]

100% agree. While the goaltending hasn't been good, that's not the reason we are losing. We have been giving up too many high quality chances and play a grinding game that doesn't allow for the skill that we don't have to succeed.

We need more offence, but shoould not be as pathetic as we have been. No way NJD, OTS, CAR, PHI, DET, OR even PIT should be better than us even without price.

you would be right if you compare the goal tending to Carey. But if the system is so forking good where the fork is the defence? Where is this great forking system that Le Genius has? OH sorry he can't go "Hey Carey you good to go?" Sure blame the forking goalies, for crying out loud, where the fork is the rest of the team? Do the forwards score? NO. Do they back check, maybe sometimes, not often. Do the defence cover up? NO. do the forwards come back and help the defence? NO. Where is this fantastic forking system that Le Genius has? OH fork he is injured. The easiest forking excuse is to blame the goalie. These poor schmucks are being lead to the slaughter every night with no and I mean NO support, and you blame the goal-tending. Great analysis. Pathetic in my view. I have been in those situations, have you? This team resembles it's coach PURE SHIT.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

What I come back to is that, for much of this slump, we've outplayed the opposition on many nights - and still lost.

Yes, that's partly due to players that just cannot be counted on to capitalize on their chances. But you come back to the old chicken and the egg thing. Why aren't they capitalizing? Could be they just suck, or it could be they're 'squeezing their sticks' because of a lack of confidence, a desperation that undermines success. To which bad goaltending is a major contributor. "Oh cripes, I HAVE to score here because they're gonna get a softie for sure..."

In any case, if it's correct to say that the team has outplayed its rivals on many nights, that suggests that coaching was not the fundamental problem for most of the slump. MT can't shoot the puck for them.

But it's sort of a moot point anyhow, because we all agree MT needs to go. I just reject the idea that he is the root of all the evils that befall the team.

[Guest Stogey24]

How many times has either tendy let in a goal minutes after we put one on the board. It's so deflating on a team.

Condon is especially bad for giving up a weak first goal. He usually recovers and has a decent game after it, but that first goal is so important, especially for the Habs.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

last years playoffs vs TB we outplayed the lightning arguably 4.5 of the 6 games including OT and lost the series... we made bishop look all-world (worth noting he is a good goalie***)

thats this slump or this team in a nutshell. every team, every goalie we face pretty much looks like an all star!! rookie goalies, old veterans past their prime as well as the elite. AND if we dont get all world goatending ourselves we just cant outlast the opposition! i reference 4 games during this slump...

1) habs playing washington the first time in early december when the slump was just starting and we completly kill them in every aspect of the game except holtby pulled a "carey price" on us and wash capitalized on the few chances they had. (cant score)

2) they play them again with a chance at redemption and after starting the first 15 minutes the exact same way as the previous outing im pretty sure it was johansson who scores from a bad angle and the wheels fall off from there and we loose again. (weak goaltending)

3) MTL vs BOS post winter classic. habs playing a great game and the game should be put away already... 2 goals in under 2 minutes one short handed by erikkson and another bad angle shot from bergeron and we are done... (cant finish)

4) MTL vs BOS agin and habs are once again the better team through 40 minutes but nothing to show for it... a couple of stinkers later and we lose another one. (weak goaltending no finish)

4 games against 2 teams and the results all the same.... cant score and cant keep the puck out.... pick your poison!

watch the philly mtl 3 on 3 and look at the missed golden chances... its actually comical

[Machine of Loving Grace]

When the Habs are having trouble scoring, there's no urgency in them. They stick to the system. They should be getting hungry and crashing the net. Instead they continue to pass the puck and take weak shots. That is a coaching issue.

[Guest Stogey24]

When the Habs are having trouble scoring, there's no urgency in them. They stick to the system. They should be getting hungry and crashing the net. Instead they continue to pass the puck and take weak shots. That is a coaching issue.

They funnel way too many outside chances to the net. Those type of "shots on net" are basically a turnover. They need to get the goalie moving laterally.

[Commandant]

last years playoffs vs TB we outplayed the lightning arguably 4.5 of the 6 games including OT and lost the series... we made bishop look all-world (worth noting he is a good goalie***)

thats this slump or this team in a nutshell. every team, every goalie we face pretty much looks like an all star!! rookie goalies, old veterans past their prime as well as the elite. AND if we dont get all world goatending ourselves we just cant outlast the opposition! i reference 4 games during this slump...

1) habs playing washington the first time in early december when the slump was just starting and we completly kill them in every aspect of the game except holtby pulled a "carey price" on us and wash capitalized on the few chances they had. (cant score)

2) they play them again with a chance at redemption and after starting the first 15 minutes the exact same way as the previous outing im pretty sure it was johansson who scores from a bad angle and the wheels fall off from there and we loose again. (weak goaltending)

3) MTL vs BOS post winter classic. habs playing a great game and the game should be put away already... 2 goals in under 2 minutes one short handed by erikkson and another bad angle shot from bergeron and we are done... (cant finish)

4) MTL vs BOS agin and habs are once again the better team through 40 minutes but nothing to show for it... a couple of stinkers later and we lose another one. (weak goaltending no finish)

4 games against 2 teams and the results all the same.... cant score and cant keep the puck out.... pick your poison!

watch the philly mtl 3 on 3 and look at the missed golden chances... its actually comical

There are so many others... Nashville game, Los Angeles game, Detroit game, are three more from December that come to mind.

How many times has either tendy let in a goal minutes after we put one on the board. It's so deflating on a team.

Condon is especially bad for giving up a weak first goal. He usually recovers and has a decent game after it, but that first goal is so important, especially for the Habs.

Exactly look at the Philly game.

thats happened so often for this team.

[habs rule]

Look guys you can blame the goalie all you want BUT if you score no forking goals what is the problem? To me a coach who advocates defence first but can't do a forking adjustment to fix it when his goalie goes down is shit. This team has a ton of talent but the "system" whatever the fork it is ain't working.

And your coach has no clue what to do.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Look guys you can blame the goalie all you want BUT if you score no forking goals what is the problem? To me a coach who advocates defence first but can't do a forking adjustment to fix it when his goalie goes down is shit. This team has a ton of talent but the "system" whatever the fork it is ain't working.

And your coach has no clue what to do.

I think at this point the team is a basket case, from the coaches on down. However, for most of The Slump, the team was getting plenty of grade-A scoring chances and outplaying the opposition at least as often as not. I simply do not see how one can rationally blame Therrien for players missing open nets, shooting wide, shooting right into the goalie, flubbing one-timers, etc., etc., etc.. Galchenyuk alone has probably personally f**ked up 20 or 30 shots over the past two months. This idea that Therrien is to blame for everything just doesn't make sense. The PLAYERS are the fools who are screwing up golden chances to get hard, dangerous shots on net.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I think at this point the team is a basket case, from the coaches on down. However, for most of The Slump, the team was getting plenty of grade-A scoring chances and outplaying the opposition at least as often as not. I simply do not see how one can rationally blame Therrien for players missing open nets, shooting wide, shooting right into the goalie, flubbing one-timers, etc., etc., etc.. Galchenyuk alone has probably personally f**ked up 20 or 30 shots over the past two months. This idea that Therrien is to blame for everything just doesn't make sense. The PLAYERS are the fools who are screwing up golden chances to get hard, dangerous shots on net.

I can't remember what coach said it, but if a player makes a mistake in a game, it's the players fault. If that player makes the same mistake all season, it's the coaches fault.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I can't remember what coach said it, but if a player makes a mistake in a game, it's the players fault. If that player makes the same mistake all season, it's the coaches fault.

So it's Therrien's fault Galchenyuk can't shoot straight? (Not to pick on Galy, he just seems to exemplify the problem of blowing good opportunities). I just don't see it. That aphorism applies to structural mistakes - e.g., blown coverage, team play errors. In doesn't apply to the simple act of a player shooting the puck and putting it in the damned net. It's not like MT is there saying, 'Now look, boys, when you get a chance to shoot da puck, make sure you shoot it wide.'

[DON]

Subban has been teaching Galchenyuk how to shoot properly maybe?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

So it's Therrien's fault Galchenyuk can't shoot straight? (Not to pick on Galy, he just seems to exemplify the problem of blowing good opportunities). I just don't see it. That aphorism applies to structural mistakes - e.g., blown coverage, team play errors. In doesn't apply to the simple act of a player shooting the puck and putting it in the damned net. It's not like MT is there saying, 'Now look, boys, when you get a chance to shoot da puck, make sure you shoot it wide.'

Therrien's fault? No.

But if the coaches are not working on Galchenyuk's shot, they are not doing their job.

Galchenyuk has 14 goals on the year, probably will hit 20 like last year, so this is either development pains on a terrible team season or around what we should expect from him, with sometimes less/more depending on how many shots go wide.

Watching Galchenyuk play, he always seems off like he plays at 48 frames per second and everyone else plays at 60 frames per second. When he's at 48, he tries to stickhandle around guys who easily stop him and his shots go wide. When he hits 60 frames he can stickhandle around a whole team and fire it in the net. He's either never going to get that in sync or he will and be a 70 point forward. With the way the coach has messed with him at centre, I doubt they are doing anything to help his shot.

[DON]

Working on shot is coaches responsibility?

Did coaches tell Larry Bird/Steve Nash to shoot 1,000 free throws every day? Not a chance, as that is 100% up to player to work on before or/and after practice. But from what I have heard Galchenyuk does put in extra work on his one-timers and such and so does Subban, but maybe got 'Steve Sax' syndrome and just cant hit broad side of barn with most shots.

Seems that is difference between a Galchenyuk and a Tarasenko.