Lovett's Magnatones Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You are calling this signing stupid? One hundred percent. But at the risk of sounding like some of the broken records around here, I'll deserve judgement until this time next year when he has three goals and two trips on the IR. What's more troubling is that Bergevin didn't learn his lesson from giving outrageous term to fourth liners like Moen and Prust, two respected veterans. This guy is a waiver wire scrub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You can't compare 2.5 million over three years with 1.16 million. One can be buried in the minors and the cap hit is basically gone. The other can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 One hundred percent. But at the risk of sounding like some of the broken records around here, I'll deserve judgement until this time next year when he has three goals and two trips on the IR. What's more troubling is that Bergevin didn't learn his lesson from giving outrageous term to fourth liners like Moen and Prust, two respected veterans. This guy is a waiver wire scrub. So are : Nate Thompson in Anaheim Kyle Chipchura in Arizona Zac Rinaldo in Boston Nicolas Deslauriers in Buffalo Matt Stajan in Calgary Jay McClement in Carolina Dennis Rassmussen in Chicago John Mitchell in Colorado Gregory Campbell in Columbus Colton Sceviour in Dallas Luke Glendening in Detroit Lauri Korpikoski in Edmonton Derek MacKenzie in Florida Nick Shore in L.A Ryan Carter in Minnesota Gabriel Bourque in Nashville Jordin Tootoo in New Jersey Matt Marin with NYI Dominic Moore with NYR Jean-Gabriel Pageau in Ottawa Ryan White in Philly Kevin Porter in Pittsburgh Chris Tierney in San Jose Scottie Upshall in St-Louis Erik Condra in Tampa Bay Richard Clune in Toronto Lindon Vey in Vancouver Michael Latta in Washington Chris Thorburn in Winnipeg What's your point ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I think we're at a point where anything MB does that falls short of a self-evident home run will be decried by some fans as just obviously stupid. As with Therrien, everything is now being filtered through a prism of negativity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I think we're at a point where anything MB does that falls short of a self-evident home run will be decried by some fans as just obviously stupid. As with Therrien, everything is now being filtered through a prism of negativity.I think when the GM has pretty much recycled 3rd/4th liners for most of his tenure and than trades for John Scott, skepticism is warranted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 We're not simple. We can appreciate a good small move and still be aware of the moves not being made or the moves that didn't work. Not everything has to be a "Yeah but" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I think when the GM has pretty much recycled 3rd/4th liners for most of his tenure and than trades for John Scott, skepticism is warranted. Damn straight. Bergevin will be out on his ass the season after next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I agree, we should have traded a whole bunch of quality prospects and first rounders in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs... knowing that there was no guarantee we would get price back. WHAT? Bergevin's job is to build a team to win the cup, not to make the playoffs this year and lose in the first round cause this team clearly showed it can't compete without price. I'm missing the point of the criticisms here. Is that what you really wanted? to give up prospects and picks for James Reimer and Mikkel Boedker and make the playoffs as a #8 seed and lose first round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Did you even read someone's entire posts before responding? MB should have improved the lineup enough that they don't need Price to simply make the playoffs. The Rangers lost lundquist for a significant stretch last year and the went something like 18-3. Price should be what puts us over the top to win the cup, not what's required to make the friggin playoffs. The lineup should have been improved prior to Price being injured. DD should have been upgraded. Emelin should have been moved. We should have acquired a real bona-fide 2nd line RW LAST friggin year. I heard the same crap last year that we are just unlucky in our shooting percentage but thoroughly outplaying the competition and I said the same thing let year, we aren't scoring because the clowns we have no finish. I believe you were one of the ones last year who was saying the stars show that we are just unlucky. Just like we were hurt unlucky in December. When price went down initially it was supposed to go for a few weeks. Than the second time, he was supposed to be out until January. Up to that time, MB should still have been trying to win this year. Once they did shut-down price and realized this team is the worst friggin team in the league without price, we should have been selling assets. Who's been moved. Tinordi who wasn't even friggin playing and wasn't responsible for this mess. You should try to read a.post fully before your sarcastic responses. I agree, we should have traded a whole bunch of quality prospects and first rounders in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs... knowing that there was no guarantee we would get price back. WHAT? Bergevin's job is to build a team to win the cup, not to make the playoffs this year and lose in the first round cause this team clearly showed it can't compete without price. I'm missing the point of the criticisms here. Is that what you really wanted? to give up prospects and picks for James Reimer and Mikkel Boedker and make the playoffs as a #8 seed and lose first round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 OMG we haven't sold assets yet... 5 days before the deadline we still have weise on the team..... The Leafs made a couple trades and the Sabres made a deal... thats it. Criticizing the fact that deals haven't come yet, is your typical "the sky is falling" type prediction... just like saying you are worried we'll trade Beaulieu for Rinaldo is an exceptionally reactionary and overly critical post. Its funny cause you criticize DD as being terrible and he's basically been characterized as one of the worst players in the league, but then you criticize our GM for not trading him away. WHO IS GONNA TAKE HIM? If he's as bad as you say, don't other teams know this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I agree, we should have traded a whole bunch of quality prospects and first rounders in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs... knowing that there was no guarantee we would get price back. WHAT? Bergevin's job is to build a team to win the cup, not to make the playoffs this year and lose in the first round cause this team clearly showed it can't compete without price. I'm missing the point of the criticisms here. Is that what you really wanted? to give up prospects and picks for James Reimer and Mikkel Boedker and make the playoffs as a #8 seed and lose first round? Nothing sarcastic about this post 29, only logic. You are like my ol' lady... damned if I do, damned if I don't, and you basically said Bergevin should have done the wrong thing, throwing good assets in an effort to win this year. Ever stop to think Bergevin knew something you didn't? Without Price, adding Crosby and Malkin still wouldn't have got us a cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The rinaldo comment was sarcasm. We should be dealing a he'll if a lot more than weisse. Markov, emelin, Flynn, anyone who is replaceable. I'd even be trying to live pleks. If MB does know something we didn't, he should have been selling much earlier. Who signed DD? He should have been moved when he actually was producing.DD should have been moved 2 years ago. It was pretty clear in the year we played the Rangers that we weren't going to win a cup with DD. Leadf got a great return for pollack because they acted early. By sitting on his ass waiting, awe already lost a potential 2nd or 3rd for Gilbert and also risk getting a tinordi like return for other players as well - which is exactly how we got Vanek cheap. When I was complaining about the scoring depth in last year's playoffs what did you do through out the possession stats and how dominant we were. Fast forward to year later and we have the same friggin problem. Who signed emelin to the contract that no one wants. Who hung on to a useless DD a until he had no value? Who sat around while his coach treated and gave ice time to DD like he was Wayne gretzky? OMG we haven't sold assets yet... 5 days before the deadline we still have weise on the team..... The Leafs made a couple trades and the Sabres made a deal... thats it. Criticizing the fact that deals haven't come yet, is your typical "the sky is falling" type prediction... just like saying you are worried we'll trade Beaulieu for Rinaldo is an exceptionally reactionary and overly critical post. Its funny cause you criticize DD as being terrible and he's basically been characterized as one of the worst players in the league, but then you criticize our GM for not trading him away. WHO IS GONNA TAKE HIM? If he's as bad as you say, don't other teams know this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 You must be a bigger screw-up than MB than. What I said was that he should have been adding assets BEFORE Price went down. Thanks after price was done and it was only supposed to be short term, he should have been upgrading our forward depth once Semin and Kassian were deemed failures - at which time Price was not expected to.be out this long. If he had known price was gone longer than expected, he should have been trying to move assets earlier. Phaneuf was moved almost a month ago. We should have been trying to move guys like Markov than as well. MB has been sitting on his ass other than shipping out tinordi for peanuts and bringing in an AHL goalie. If he knew that this team can get no where without price, or that price was going to be out longer than originally expected, he should have been selling and at least ensuring a better draft position. As it stands, we will probably finish between 6 and 8. Nothing sarcastic about this post 29, only logic. You are like my ol' lady... damned if I do, damned if I don't, and you basically said Bergevin should have done the wrong thing, throwing good assets in an effort to win this year. Ever stop to think Bergevin knew something you didn't? Without Price, adding Crosby and Malkin still wouldn't have got us a cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 You must be a bigger screw-up than MB than. What I said was that he should have been adding assets BEFORE Price went down. Thanks after price was done and it was only supposed to be short term, he should have been upgrading our forward depth once Semin and Kassian were deemed failures - at which time Price was not expected to.be out this long. If he had known price was gone longer than expected, he should have been trying to move assets earlier. Phaneuf was moved almost a month ago. We should have been trying to move guys like Markov than as well. MB has been sitting on his ass other than shipping out tinordi for peanuts and bringing in an AHL goalie. If he knew that this team can get no where without price, or that price was going to be out longer than originally expected, he should have been selling and at least ensuring a better draft position. As it stands, we will probably finish between 6 and 8. First off, I said Commandants post was fact based, not sarcastic, but a good post. I maintain I didn't screw that up. Bergevin and myself, would then have to listen to screw ups with a negative personality complain and vehemently spew their book of knowledge of how to be a Stanley Cup winner if only they were the GM. Adding assets means what exactly? Dumping prospects/players for a shot at Matthews without Price temporarily? Adding prospects by trading our players before Price went down so we had absolutely no chance at making the playoffs if Carey did come back? Weaken us for years to come for a season without a goalie, to add forward depth, so we could squeak in and lose first round? Or would you have traded the farm for a new #1 goalie? Price's return was the key, and that was a variable that couldn't be dated, and you condone a GM that fires the surrender flag at the first sign of trouble... Your plan is to fire Therrien, we know, we know... You wouldn't be welcome in my screw up fox hole, where us screw ups wish we were as smart as the malcontents... Stop drinking 29... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Yeah, I don't really know how people can support Bergevin after this year. Mistake after mistake, and for some reason, Michel Therrien is still the coach of this team. Player development and acquisition is horrible. It's very easy for a GM to be hired when a team is a disaster and correct a lot of obvious errors, and it's another thing to take the next step and build a contender. I would say, "let's see what he does this summer," but we've been saying that for two years, and he's done diddly squat to improve the team over his entire tenure, unless you think Jeff Petry is a difference maker. (He's not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 MB has not made a single major mistake. His biggest positive error was trading Kassian. The critique, then, has to be that he has been too passive. That's fair, but let's remember that he's been dealing from a position of relative strength: a team that was a guaranteed playoff squad and knocking on the door to get out of the conference. Under those circumstances, I had no real problem with him playing it cool, waiting for the right opportunity before going all in, rather than compromise the future on a swing-for-the-fences play. And please don't go on about Seguin or Spezza; neither player was ever going to come to us from those rival organizations, and we may not have had the assets to dangle in a trade anyway. In terms of his inaction regarding the slump, I actually put that to his credit. As Commandant says, he did not compromise the future for short-term, desperate fixes, accurately recognizing that no team is going to win with goaltending that has a save percentage of .900. That's what Habs29's comparison with the Rangers last year overlooks. Talbot had a save % of .931. That's a massive difference. The frothing negativity about MB is rooted in anger at this disastrous season more than rational analysis. The NEXT 12 months will be what really determines whether Grizzly Adams is a worthy GM or not. This is the make or break period: from this trade deadline to next season's. Calling for his head at this juncture is ridiculously premature. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I think Bergevin for the most part has done a great job building the team. This year, however, was an example of where the patience displayed in previous seasons turned a virtue into a vice. The team was ready to compete. Instead of going all in, he decided to sit back. He continued to sit back until the season was completely away from us. I'm not saying we would still be the best team in the league without Price if he made a trade, but we would have been in a better position to make the playoffs if in December he made a trade for a forward. We clearly lost out on a few guys over the summer because players weren't impressed with our centre depth. He demands top value for anyone on the team (two second rounders for Tinordi) until they have no value and then trades them for next to nothing (Tinordi for Scott and Bartley). He's happy to make a good deal at the trade deadline but unwilling to do the same any other time. The way Eliotte Friedman talks about Lars Eller being on the market several times and then Bergevin deciding otherwise because he was valuable to the team again tells me everything about his indecisiveness. When will Bergevin decide the team is finally ready to go all in? And will that time ever actually come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Yeah, I don't really know how people can support Bergevin after this year. Mistake after mistake, and for some reason, Michel Therrien is still the coach of this team. Player development and acquisition is horrible. It's very easy for a GM to be hired when a team is a disaster and correct a lot of obvious errors, and it's another thing to take the next step and build a contender. I would say, "let's see what he does this summer," but we've been saying that for two years, and he's done diddly squat to improve the team over his entire tenure, unless you think Jeff Petry is a difference maker. (He's not). Bergevin's slick suits and pretty hair cut make him a tough guy to dislike, but WTF has he done to improve this team's chance at wining a cup? Honestly, why do we all give him this pass on the season? Because he's cheap? Because he won't mortgage the future? What future is that again, because I see nothing in the minors that's going to come up make a serious difference.At some point you have to play for the now. it's OK for teams like Columbus to hang on to young guys and picks, or maybe have a set back year like this one, but for a team like Montreal, with a legit core and window of opportunity. You can't just wait for things to fall into your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 All you critics run on assumptions and conjecture, and know sweet FA about the situation in the room that he and Molson sit and discuss the direction of the franchise. I say he has done the smartest thing in light of Price's absence and a non solid return date, prepare for next year and beyond. The team has some great young pieces, and this year, in my opinion, is an anomaly in this era of the Montreal Canadiens. After all, if Price had of played all season, we would be at the top and not the bottom, so why in the world would he throw all the cards in the air, only to have to deal with the fall out from trying to save a certainly sinking ship? How many GM's do you guys talk to? How do you know in the least what these "forwards or offensive" help costs in terms of trading? Conjecture and assumptions mean nothing in fact. That's what I thought... 0 Habs have some good prospects that can surely play a role in the coming years, on the cheap, so we can actually afford to sign the UFA we need, or make that deadline deal to go for a cup, but there was no way in hell that would be this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Bergevin's slick suits and pretty hair cut make him a tough guy to dislike, but WTF has he done to improve this team's chance at wining a cup? Honestly, why do we all give him this pass on the season? Because he's cheap? Because he won't mortgage the future? What future is that again, because I see nothing in the minors that's going to come up make a serious difference. At some point you have to play for the now. it's OK for teams like Columbus to hang on to young guys and picks, or maybe have a set back year like this one, but for a team like Montreal, with a legit core and window of opportunity. You can't just wait for things to fall into your hands. Thats all true, but there is one key mitigating factor. The ONE KEY piece of that core, hasn't played since November, and its unclear when he will play. Without Price this team can't win a cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Thats all true, but there is one key mitigating factor. The ONE KEY piece of that core, hasn't played since November, and its unclear when he will play. Without Price this team can't win a cup. And that's a fact jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Thats all true, but there is one key mitigating factor. The ONE KEY piece of that core, hasn't played since November, and its unclear when he will play. Without Price this team can't win a cup. I know, but personally, I don't think Bergevin is the G.M everyone thinks he is. This team just folded up without Carey. That's pretty scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 This offseason has to be about adding to that core, with 1 or 2 of the key free agents on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 ok guys I know we are all pissed off cause we don't like losing but let's not do the personal attack thing, ok Korp? Look MB is in my opinion a good gm, you can't make a trade by yourself, you need a partner. From what I have read and heard he is one of the most active GM's in the league, trying to make a deal. He hasn't made the deal we want but that doesn't mean he isn't trying. Yeah the coach needs to be fired, of course I have been saying that for 3 years just based on the fact he has no idea how to coach offense. I have been proven right finally. No amount of stats will cover this mess. We have a good core, we need to move DD, Eller, Markov, at the very least. IMHO we should moved Markov 2 years ago but now he just has to go. We can not afford him anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 ok guys I know we are all pissed off cause we don't like losing but let's not do the personal attack thing, ok Korp? Look MB is in my opinion a good gm, you can't make a trade by yourself, you need a partner. From what I have read and heard he is one of the most active GM's in the league, trying to make a deal. He hasn't made the deal we want but that doesn't mean he isn't trying. Yeah the coach needs to be fired, of course I have been saying that for 3 years just based on the fact he has no idea how to coach offense. I have been proven right finally. No amount of stats will cover this mess. We have a good core, we need to move DD, Eller, Markov, at the very least. IMHO we should moved Markov 2 years ago but now he just has to go. We can not afford him anymore. Oh thanks for the advice...I "screwed up". I'm just sick of negativity and spouting hateful shit out of the same old fountain. And always an insinuated insult, but that's ok, I'll just take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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