The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 He signed a deal coming off his RFA contract. Thats not the same. Again you are missing the point, that when you sign away UFA years... the years where you can choose where you and your family live, its a big deal, and one where agents and players are going to look at the GM who trades a player away (before he even plays a single game on that extension) a little funny. Every player signing away UFA years in the future is going to be looking for a NTC if we have a GM that trades players away right after signing them. This is a legitimate concern. But we're not talking about a pattern of behaviour, we're talking about a single case. The Habs have signed a number of guys coming off RFA contracts without proceeding to trade them - e.g., Price and Subban. Moreover, they are coming off a catastrophic season, Pleks did not have a particularly good year, and it is crashingly obvious that the Habs have a window and need to upgrade the forward corps with some urgency. I think the real message players will take away from a Pleks trade, provided it brings back that upgrade, is that this organization is committed to doing whatever it takes to win. That is a positively attractive message to players looking to sign up long-term. So yes, you don't want to make a habit of trading away guys who have committed to you long-term, but the notion that you can never, ever, under any circumstances, trade away such a player, even if you really need to make your team better and are coming off a horrendous year, etc., seems overblown to me. If trading Pleks makes us better, we should bloody well trade him. I'm a little tired of arguments that we can't do this or that in order to improve the team. Screw that. It's time to do whatever it takes to take that jump to heavy-duty contender. Enough's enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Logan Brown is a poor man's Rick Nash with 100% of the laziness. However he is more likely mid 1st round, so unlikely for Habs to go after another McCarron-type. And Keller piles up points...but is 5'9" 168lb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 This is a legitimate concern. But we're not talking about a pattern of behaviour, we're talking about a single case. The Habs have signed a number of guys coming off RFA contracts without proceeding to trade them - e.g., Price and Subban. Moreover, they are coming off a catastrophic season, Pleks did not have a particularly good year, and it is crashingly obvious that the Habs have a window and need to upgrade the forward corps with some urgency. I think the real message players will take away from a Pleks trade, provided it brings back that upgrade, is that this organization is committed to doing whatever it takes to win. That is a positively attractive message to players looking to sign up long-term. So yes, you don't want to make a habit of trading away guys who have committed to you long-term, but the notion that you can never, ever, under any circumstances, trade away such a player, even if you really need to make your team better and are coming off a horrendous year, etc., seems overblown to me. If trading Pleks makes us better, we should bloody well trade him. I'm a little tired of arguments that we can't do this or that in order to improve the team. Screw that. It's time to do whatever it takes to take that jump to heavy-duty contender. Enough's enough. If there's a deal to better your team, you do it. I understand the morality of trading a player, but at the end of the day the nhl is business. I also think Plekanec knows he could be traded this offseason. It's the name of the game, especially for an aging player coming of a not so great year on a team that's more than likely about to shake things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Even assuming you trade him. What are you getting. Keep in mind we currently are short 2 top 6 forwards. Move plekanec and now you are short three. Whats the replacement that makes us a better team? Dd and eller have both proven that they cannot be second line centres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Even assuming you trade him. What are you getting. Keep in mind we currently are short 2 top 6 forwards. Move plekanec and now you are short three. Whats the replacement that makes us a better team? Dd and eller have both proven that they cannot be second line centres. At the pace Plek scored this year, especially the last 3/4 of the season, he did a good job proving he can't be a #2 C as well. I would take a young physical scoring type winger for him in a heartbeat, and since MT is staying on, DD will be useful as a center, be it #2 or #3, and Eller is a decent shut down C with size and speed. I am not a DD fan, and losing faith that Eller will ever be more than a 3rd liner, but Pleks has not done anything to think he is irreplaceable either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 You don't measure players by small sample sizes. Why ignore Plekanec's career of being a consistent scorer, because he slowed down for half a season (and still had 54 points on the whole even with that slowdown). Now what type of young, physical, scoring winger do you think you are gonna get for Pleks? Tell me why the other team is going to trade us a young asset for an older one. The player is either 1) A prospect and Not NHL ready, so that doesn't help us now; or if he is NHL ready 2) he's a downgrade in talent. There are no Milburys in the league... no one is going to trade us a young winger who plays physical and is gonna score ~55 points to us for Plek. So your either going to have to add to the package, or we are down grading our scoring (something we can't afford to really do). How about this... instead of having 2 good wingers on the team, we keep the 2 centres we have and surround them with talent so they can produce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 There is no way Bergevin goes into next year with Desharnais and Eller both still on this roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 There is no way Bergevin goes into next year with Desharnais and Eller both still on this roster. The $7M centre that takes up two spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 You don't measure players by small sample sizes. Why ignore Plekanec's career of being a consistent scorer, because he slowed down for half a season (and still had 54 points on the whole even with that slowdown). Now what type of young, physical, scoring winger do you think you are gonna get for Pleks? Tell me why the other team is going to trade us a young asset for an older one. The player is either 1) A prospect and Not NHL ready, so that doesn't help us now; or if he is NHL ready 2) he's a downgrade in talent. There are no Milburys in the league... no one is going to trade us a young winger who plays physical and is gonna score ~55 points to us for Plek. So your either going to have to add to the package, or we are down grading our scoring (something we can't afford to really do). How about this... instead of having 2 good wingers on the team, we keep the 2 centres we have and surround them with talent so they can produce? off course you add to the package. I've been saying this for months/seasons now. None of our player that we'd like to get rid of (Eller, Emelin, DD, even Pleks) will bring a good return alone. We HAVE to add to the package. We should honestly do it. UFA market is not a safe way to rebuild, never know if you're gonna end the day with empty hands. Drafting outside of top 3 this season means your prospect is not Top 6 before a few seasons. A package of Pleks + 9th overall pick though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 off course you add to the package. I've been saying this for months/seasons now. None of our player that we'd like to get rid of (Eller, Emelin, DD, even Pleks) will bring a good return alone. We HAVE to add to the package. We should honestly do it. UFA market is not a safe way to rebuild, never know if you're gonna end the day with empty hands. Drafting outside of top 3 this season means your prospect is not Top 6 before a few seasons. A package of Pleks + 9th overall pick though... Who says will draft a forward? Who says you cant do like Washington Caps; draft a skilled forward and trade him away a year later (Filip Forsberg) for current roster help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 I am not a big fan of trading draft choices. However that being said, this team has a small window to take a cup run. So yeah if pleks and a 9th gets us the sniper we need let's do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 For the record, I'm not saying to trade Pleks. I'm just saying that IF some kind of package exists that includes Pleks, and improves the team, then his contractual status should not prevent us from acting on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 off course you add to the package. I've been saying this for months/seasons now. None of our player that we'd like to get rid of (Eller, Emelin, DD, even Pleks) will bring a good return alone. We HAVE to add to the package. We should honestly do it. UFA market is not a safe way to rebuild, never know if you're gonna end the day with empty hands. Drafting outside of top 3 this season means your prospect is not Top 6 before a few seasons. A package of Pleks + 9th overall pick though... Thanks Joe, Commandant, I didn't say I wouldn't expect to add to it, I simply meant Pleks is a good piece to start the conversation...and would help bring in that winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Pleks plus a top 10 pick? What are you expecting back for that. Cause if its not a superstar, I wouldn't make that deal. You also still need some players for this new guy to play with (or for our existing guys to play with), cause you still have 4 top 6 forwards.... so one of New Guy, Patch, Chucky, Gallagher, is gonna end up on a line without any support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Pleks plus a top 10 pick? What are you expecting back for that. Cause if its not a superstar, I wouldn't make that deal. You also still need some players for this new guy to play with (or for our existing guys to play with), cause you still have 4 top 6 forwards.... so one of New Guy, Patch, Chucky, Gallagher, is gonna end up on a line without any support. Indeed. But if we trade Pleks for a top-6 FW *and* sign a UFA, why then we could certainly be improved, depending on the return on the Pleks deal. But I agree that it's a complicated and therefore somewhat far-fetched scenario to work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 Pleks plus a top 10 pick? What are you expecting back for that. Cause if its not a superstar, I wouldn't make that deal. You also still need some players for this new guy to play with (or for our existing guys to play with), cause you still have 4 top 6 forwards.... so one of New Guy, Patch, Chucky, Gallagher, is gonna end up on a line without any support. define superstar. I want a 30+ goal scorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 define superstar. I want a 30+ goal scorer. to give up Pleks plus a top 10 pick, i expect the forward to immediately become the undisputed best forward on our roster, better than Max and AG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Plekanec's trade value isn't insanely high. I wouldn't think so anyways.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 to give up Pleks plus a top 10 pick, i expect the forward to immediately become the undisputed best forward on our roster, better than Max and AG. hmm your standards are high. I like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 to give up Pleks plus a top 10 pick, i expect the forward to immediately become the undisputed best forward on our roster, better than Max and AG. For Malkin would be cool... I still think you are over rating Plek's trade value, and his worth moving forward, just my opinion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Plekanec's trade value isn't insanely high. I wouldn't think so anyways.... For Malkin would be cool... I still think you are over rating Plek's trade value, and his worth moving forward, just my opinion though. Its not just pleks value i'm looking at, its also the value of that top 10 pick. Here is what I'm looking at.... 1) a 55-60 point forward who gives added value of playing against the other team's top lines. He's older, but still just 33, so he's got some value, but ok I'm discounting a bit. 2) Here is the value though... a top 10 pick, who might not make the team next year, but I expect to be on the team in 2017-18 or at the latest 2018-19. This pick should be an impact player considering that he's gonna be top 10, and he's going to be a cheap source of production for at least three years on an ELC. So I'm throwing in a hell of a piece with Plek, a hell of a good piece. That tells me it has to be a serious upgrade on the 55-60 point guy with good defence that Plek is. And if you are talking SERIOUS upgrade on Pleks, that means best forward on our team. Like I'm looking for a 75-80 point guy, or there is no value in giving up the 55-60 point guy + a draft pick of that value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Its not just pleks value i'm looking at, its also the value of that top 10 pick. Here is what I'm looking at.... 1) a 55-60 point forward who gives added value of playing against the other team's top lines. He's older, but still just 33, so he's got some value, but ok I'm discounting a bit. 2) Here is the value though... a top 10 pick, who might not make the team next year, but I expect to be on the team in 2017-18 or at the latest 2018-19. This pick should be an impact player considering that he's gonna be top 10, and he's going to be a cheap source of production for at least three years on an ELC. So I'm throwing in a hell of a piece with Plek, a hell of a good piece. That tells me it has to be a serious upgrade on the 55-60 point guy with good defence that Plek is. And if you are talking SERIOUS upgrade on Pleks, that means best forward on our team. Like I'm looking for a 75-80 point guy, or there is no value in giving up the 55-60 point guy + a draft pick of that value. So, in terms of Oilers players, that's Taylor Hall or bust, in your book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 ya know the interesting thing about Malkin (love to have him) is he has less than 300 goals and more than 550 assists. Is that the Sid the Kid effect? Do we need another play maker? And how is he going to react when le genius puts him on the 3rd or 4th line cause you just have to know that is where he going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronthab Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 We certainly find ourselves with a lot of free time and inclination to discuss personnel this year..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Alex Nylander had 6 pt in 8-1 win today. 2g 4a http://u18worlds2016.iihf.com/en/news/sui-swe/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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