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Habs acquire Andrew Shaw; Eller to Washington


dlbalr

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We've been lacking the kind of bite in the lineup that Shaw should bring ever since Prust left. Giving 6 years to a volatile 3rd liner is kind of crazy though, and could look horrible down the road.

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We've been lacking the kind of bite in the lineup that Shaw should bring ever since Prust left. Giving 6 years to a volatile 3rd liner is kind of crazy though, and could look horrible down the road.

You certainly could be right. I feel that since Shaw is only 24, the risk might not be too bad, and that he could provide value for 4 or 5 of the 6 years

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Just curious as to why? If MB signs him for 5 years @ at 3.5M per year, I fail to understand why that's awful. Those are the price tags for Eller and Desharnais and Shaw is going to be a much better player than those two.

Shaw to me is just another middle six player like Eller, DD, and Weise. I don't want guys like that getting paid. I want our money tied up only in top potential stars.

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Shaw to me is just another middle six player like Eller, DD, and Weise. I don't want guys like that getting paid. I want our money tied up only in top potential stars.

You can't just have a top-heavy lineup, though. We saw what happens when Gauthier treated the bottom lines as utterly disposable - we'd get owned every time those lines were on the ice. Shaw is an upgrade on Eller and therefore makes our team better. That's how we should be seeing this.

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Shaw to me is just another middle six player like Eller, DD, and Weise. I don't want guys like that getting paid. I want our money tied up only in top potential stars.

Agreed. You identify your key core (which we don't fully have in place) and then figure out how much you can pay the bottom six. you don't lock up the bottom six with big contacts and then use what's left to determine how much you can pay your top 6.

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You can't just have a top-heavy lineup, though. We saw what happens when Gauthier treated the bottom lines as utterly disposable - we'd get owned every time those lines were on the ice. Shaw is an upgrade on Eller and therefore makes our team better. That's how we should be seeing this.

Look at Pittsburgh. Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and Hornqvist would be their top four. Followed is Kunitz, Hagelin, Fehr, and Bonino.

Shaw will be our Hagelin. Think about that.

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I don't know wether or not the Habs are better with Shaw. The problem I have with this trade is that just because the Caps were dumb enough to pay two second rounders for a bottom six guy, it doesn't mean that Bergevin had to follow suit. The Hawks couldn't afford to sign Shaw. That immediately diminishes his trade value. When you look at one of the posts dblar put up on the NHL entry draft thread there was a picture of possible trade scenarios for the Bolts. The Lightning would have traded their 1st rounder for both of Montreal's second rounders. Habs basically gave a first rounder (a late one) for Shaw. I would have been fine with one second rounder for Shaw, but not two. Shaw will also likely be protected in the expansion draft. So hypothetically the Habs will protect their 6 top 6 forwards (if they can get two more with the money they have left) and Shaw.

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The problem is we haven't got our Crosby and Malkin in the top 6. We have our kessel (maxpac). Pittsburgh committed to Crosby and Malkin first - and both were home town discounts. If we were to say get stamkos, it would cost at least $10m, Pittsburgh is only paying Malkin and Crosby $8.7m - less than what we are paying subban. The pens are paying letang $7.25m - almost $2m less than Subban.

MB fxcked up not signing subban to cap friendly deals like Pittsburgh and most other teams have done with their stars, than he consistently has overpaid bottom six players and lower pairing dmen, while playing hardball with our best player, I have no problem with Shaw getting $3.5m, AFTER MB signs ok post or stamkos, IF there is money left over. What I don't like is picking up another expensive bottom 6 player (we already have DD), before picking up a legit top 6 players. You lock in or identify and sign your stars first and than sign the grunts. Not the other way around.

Keep in mind that Carey price's next salary in two years will start at $9m. Locking up shaw for 4 to 6 years at $3.5m/yr doesn't help matters.

Look at Pittsburgh. Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and Hornqvist would be their top four. Followed is Kunitz, Hagelin, Fehr, and Bonino.

Shaw will be our Hagelin. Think about that.

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The problem is we haven't got our Crosby and Malkin in the top 6. We have our kessel (maxpac). Pittsburgh committed to Crosby and Malkin first - and both were home town discounts. If we were to say get stamkos, it would cost at least $10m, Pittsburgh is only paying Malkin and Crosby $8.7m - less than what we are paying subban. The pens are paying letang $7.25m - almost $2m less than Subban.

MB fxcked up not signing subban to cap friendly deals like Pittsburgh and most other teams have done with their stars, than he consistently has overpaid bottom six players and lower pairing dmen, while playing hardball with our best player, I have no problem with Shaw getting $3.5m, AFTER MB signs ok post or stamkos, IF there is money left over. What I don't like is picking up another expensive bottom 6 player (we already have DD), before picking up a legit top 6 players. You lock in or identify and sign your stars first and than sign the grunts. Not the other way around.

Keep in mind that Carey price's next salary in two years will start at $9m. Locking up shaw for 4 to 6 years at $3.5m/yr doesn't help matters.

Our home town discounts were given to Pacioretty and Gallagher. Unfortunately, they're not forwards like Crosby or Malkin. Our Crosby and Malkin are Price and Subban. Habs are not built the same way as Pittsburgh but ironically, both Crosby and Price were taken in the same draft year. They got the prize centreman and we got the prize goalie. Since then, PIT has done very good with Fleury as their netminder (although that's come to en end), and MTL has had a rotating staff of Koivu, Gomez, Plekanec, Desharnais and now Galchenyuk as their top centre - with little stability. Hopefully that comes to an end and Galchenyuk is the real deal. Now we need top wingers. Do we want Kessel, Hornqvist or Kunitz? Maybe, but I hope Okposo or Ladd can be signed on July 1st.

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Our home town discounts were given to Pacioretty and Gallagher. Unfortunately, they're not forwards like Crosby or Malkin. Our Crosby and Malkin are Price and Subban. Habs are not built the same way as Pittsburgh but ironically, both Crosby and Price were taken in the same draft year. They got the prize centreman and we got the prize goalie. Since then, PIT has done very good with Fleury as their netminder (although that's come to en end), and MTL has had a rotating staff of Koivu, Gomez, Plekanec, Desharnais and now Galchenyuk as their top centre - with little stability. Hopefully that comes to an end and Galchenyuk is the real deal. Now we need top wingers. Do we want Kessel, Hornqvist or Kunitz? Maybe, but I hope Okposo or Ladd can be signed on July 1st.

I get that Price is our top player. My point is that you need to pay top 6 players to be able to get them. Stamos at $10M+ is not doable with so much money wasted on 3rd liners and Emelin. I doubt we could do Okposo and Ladd at the salary and term they will want with so much money wasted on roller players and the raises that MaxPac and Price will be getting (probably $6.5M+ and $9M+) and the raise that will be due to Galchenyuk (probably $7m+).

Pens got better contacts from their top players (Crosby, Malkin and Letang), plus has the leafs eating part of Kessels deal. The discounts allow them more flexibility. We got good deals for Maxpac and Gallagahar, but wasted most of the years of Maxpac's contracts by not building a strong team around him, or getting him a top centre with. Subban is the highest paid dman (by cap hit) in the league. He has a higher cap hit than anyone on the pens, thanks to the wonderful job in his salary negotiations and bridge deal imposed by MB. Price will probably make more than him. We need at least two more top 6 players, with that kind of salary structure, you can't be handing out term and $'s to bottom six players.

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Could MB have not just signed Dale Weise in a week for less money and not give up two draft picks? I don't think there is that much difference between him and Shaw to justify the trade

Also if this is MB's answer to filling a top 6 spot, we may as well pack it in for another season

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Shaw is way grittier than Weisse,

Shawe is a pest on every shift, he plays more like Gallagher, he hits and will drop the gloves from time to time, he doesn't take shifts off

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Shaw is way grittier than Weisse,

Shawe is a pest on every shift, he plays more like Gallagher, he hits and will drop the gloves from time to time, he doesn't take shifts off

My point is more:

Does Weise +1-1.5m in cap space + 2 second round picks = Shaw? And what's the plan for the top 6? It's painfully obvious there are holes there and why are bottom 6 players constantly the priority?

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Shaw is way grittier than Weisse,

Shawe is a pest on every shift, he plays more like Gallagher, he hits and will drop the gloves from time to time, he doesn't take shifts off

Who gives a shit if he can't score like Gallagher.

For winning now I'd have give up two 2nds for Shaw. However they wouldn't have been the 39th and 45th in 2016

Is Shaw going to help us win now if his contract prevents us from improving the top 6?

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I get that Price is our top player. My point is that you need to pay top 6 players to be able to get them. Stamos at $10M+ is not doable with so much money wasted on 3rd liners and Emelin. I doubt we could do Okposo and Ladd at the salary and term they will want with so much money wasted on roller players and the raises that MaxPac and Price will be getting (probably $6.5M+ and $9M+) and the raise that will be due to Galchenyuk (probably $7m+).

Okay, if Okposo chooses MTL for 6 years/$36M then MB will sign him. I totally disagree that he would choose to look the other way because we have bottom 6 players like Desharnais and Shaw making $3.5M each. Besides those 2, how are we over paying the bottom 6:

Mitchell - $1.2M

Byron - $1.16M

Danault - $1M (estimate)

Flynn - $950k

Andrighetto - $650k

Lessio - $650k (estimate)

Seriously, that's roughly $6M in yearly salary plus $7M for Desharnais/Shaw. For a grand total of $13M for 8 players that fill out the bottom 6.

If MB has got a couple of fish on the hook on July 1st and he needs more than the $5M he currently has at his disposal then he dumps Emelin ($4.1M) and Desharnais ($3.5M). Markov comes off the books in 2017 and his money goes to Galchenyuk. Plekanec comes off the books in 2018 and his money ges to Price. Guys like Mitchell, Flynn and Byron will eventually be replaced by younger players at half their cap hit in the next 2 years, and the cap will probably be $78M by then as well. I don't subscribe to the theory that signing Shaw has prevented us from signing top line UFA's, those players simply don't want to play here.

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And to continue my post above, here's how we're paying the top 6:

Plekanec - $6M

Pacioretty - $4.5M

Gallagher - $3.75M

Galchenyuk - $2.8M

That leaves 2 spots to sign some UFA's. Hypothetically, Okposo signs at $6M and Ladd signs at $5M.

Emelin gets traded somewhere out West for a 2nd round pick. Desharnais gets traded for an AHLer. That leaves MB roughly $1.5M under the cap. My point is, MB will miss out on top quality UFA's because they don't want to play in MTL. Not because he wants to keep Emelin or Desharnais, he can make the dollars work. But, he can't force people to come to the city of Montreal.

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I can't see this argument that we have 'no plan for the top 6.'

Presumably the plan is to add a UFA. And if that doesn't work, I assume MB has fall-back options.

It's simply WAAAY to soon to condemn Bergevin for inactivity on the scoring front. UFA season hasn't even begun, for God's sake.

The whole idea that we have to condemn one move that improves the team, because it wasn't a different move to improve the team, makes absolutely no sense. The one does not preclude the other.

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Who gives a shit if he can't score like Gallagher.

Is Shaw going to help us win now if his contract prevents us from improving the top 6?

What's the bigger hindrance...Shaws unknown future contract or Quebec taxes, media,always in the limelight Language bullshit???

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What's the bigger hindrance...Shaws unknown future contract or Quebec taxes, media,always in the limelight Language bullshit???

Yeah, if Shaw signs at $4, that's $500 000 more than Eller. Not exactly a crippling expansion of our payroll, relative to where it was before.

And as I've suggested in other threads, I don't think Montreal is an extraordinarily undesirable UFA destination. If we imagine four tiers - with EDM and WPG at the bottom tier, and teams like TB or the NYR at the top, we'd be in the third or second tier, I'd expect. We're able to compete, but we don't have any obvious, massive competitive advantage in luring UFAs, that's for sure. So a lot depends on the player's particular disposition (e.g, Cammy actively wanted a market where he could be a star) and the number of other teams in the bidding war. 'Cautious optimism' that the Habs can land meaningful scoring help in UFA season seems a realistic attitude to have going in, I'd think.

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I can't see this argument that we have 'no plan for the top 6.'

Presumably the plan is to add a UFA. And if that doesn't work, I assume MB has fall-back options.

It's simply WAAAY to soon to condemn Bergevin for inactivity on the scoring front. UFA season hasn't even begun, for God's sake.

The whole idea that we have to condemn one move that improves the team, because it wasn't a different move to improve the team, makes absolutely no sense. The one does not preclude the other.

That's it exactly, Shaw is going to be a huge impact compared to Eller. Team improved. Now go for best UFA/UFA's we can get, team improved further...

What's the problem, you guys miss Eller already? :scared:

Relax... Chill out...July 1st is coming :1banana:

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