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Subban traded to Nashville


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Subban played his heart out but there was definitely an air of total "self promotion" when it came to him.

A proper leader would have been able to keep things in balance but Patches proved he (nor anyone else for that matter) was capable of doing so. PK's mistake in my eyes was not focusing on being a more pragmatic leader and not someone who just played hard from the moment the puck was dropped. If he really wanted to be the leader of this team I think he could have spent more time trying to de so instead of trying to create this super PK Brand.

I've been following PK on Instagram for over a year. I can definitely see how his larger than life persona can be refreshing for fans but become totally annoying for teammates.

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72 pages of debate in this thread alone plus the countless times it cropped up in others, and it all ends up with Nashville sending him away in a cap dump. We can now officially put this baby to bed.

F**K YOU MARC BERGEVIN.

He did not "get dumped because he is a liability to his team".  That's not true. He got dumped because his GM has mismanaged the cap and no one will take players who suck like Nick Bonino or kyle T

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Subban played his heart out but there was definitely an air of total "self promotion" when it came to him.

A proper leader would have been able to keep things in balance but Patches proved he (nor anyone else for that matter) was capable of doing so. PK's mistake in my eyes was not focusing on being a more pragmatic leader and not someone who just played hard from the moment the puck was dropped. If he really wanted to be the leader of this team I think he could have spent more time trying to de so instead of trying to create this super PK Brand.

I've been following PK on Instagram for over a year. I can definitely see how his larger than life persona can be refreshing for fans but become totally annoying for teammates.

I agree with this. I think his teamates appreciate and love his skill but he got on their nerves more often than not so a change in the dressing was needed.
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Everyone on frigging planet earth thinks this was a bad trade.

The issue isn't trading Subban, it's the failure to get a return that makes the team as strong as, or stronger than, it was with Subban.

It's funny how the year before last, all we heard about was how we had the best dressing room in hockey, etc.. Petry came here and was so impressed he signed on at a probable discount.

Suddenly, one year later, Subban is some sort of locker-room cancer who somehow has to be purged even at the cost of making the team worse.

Seems to me that the key variable here wasn't Subban. It was losing Price and therefore losing lots and lots of games. Getting Price back and therefore winning lots and lots of games would have fixed the 'problem' just as suddenly as it appeared.

But it wouldn't have fixed the real problem - i.e., Subban's being too uppity. He played contract hardball and exposed Dumber's refusal to extend a bridge deal for the bad decision it was. He (occasionally) refused to play like the kind of mechanical drone that coaches like MT want. He had his own 'brand' independent of the Habs. For these inexcusable sins, none of which have anything to do with winning, he was sold at a discount to a team smart enough to take advantage of Dumb and Dumber. That's the beginning and the end of the story.

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In another year we'll find out the dressing room cancer was therrien. Probably the only coach in the history of the NHL who was the main reason for his team losing a play-off series. because of stupid selfish penalties.

I don't know how he can even call out Subban for selfish penalties when he took his selfish penalties in the playoff from behind the friggin bench.

Everyone on frigging planet earth thinks this was a bad trade.

The issue isn't trading Subban, it's the failure to get a return that makes the team as strong as, or stronger than, it was with Subban.

It's funny how the year before last, all we heard about was how we had the best dressing room in hockey, etc.. Petry came here and was so impressed he signed on at a probable discount.

Suddenly, one year later, Subban is some sort of locker-room cancer who somehow has to be purged even at the cost of making the team worse.

Seems to me that the key variable here wasn't Subban. It was losing Price and therefore losing lots and lots of games. Getting Price back and therefore winning lots and lots of games would have fixed the 'problem' just as suddenly as it appeared.

But it wouldn't have fixed the real problem - i.e., Subban's being too uppity. He played contract hardball and exposed Dumber's refusal to extend a bridge deal for the bad decision it was. He (occasionally) refused to play like the kind of mechanical drone that coaches like MT want. He had his own 'brand' independent of the Habs. For these inexcusable sins, none of which have anything to do with winning, he was sold at a discount to a team smart enough to take advantage of Dumb and Dumber. That's the beginning and the end of the story.

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The man made a 10 million dollar commitment to charity yet the team voted Max the most charitable. Nothing to do with management. The team voted for captain and Pacioretty won. The division was there and the charity award vote, to me is very telling. I don't like it. I hate it. It makes me so mad that this happened, yet I can't ignore the team votes, nor can I ignore that the PK spotlight was a distraction.

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The Team voted for 2 awards

The Masterton - Pacioretty was the nominee

The NHL Foundation Award - Subban was the nominee.

Why the second keeps getting ignored, i don't know.

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Oh. I didn't know that. I'm trying to rationalize why Bergevin would make such a horrible mistake, and I can only think of dressing room issues. I want to blame Therrien for the whole thing. I can't help but think that if Crawford were hired as head coach, he would have begged MB to give him a chance to work with Subban. I am floored by the stupidity of this move, and I can't believe that this trade would happen if all was rosey in the room. If it comes out that MT was the reason, I will hate him forever. I don't blame Tremblay or Houle directly for the Roy shenanigans. They had no idea what they were doing. They were working way above their abilities. MB and MT are experienced hockey managers. If this is their fault, I will hate them far more than Houle or Tremblay.

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The Team voted for 2 awards

The Masterton - Pacioretty was the nominee

The NHL Foundation Award - Subban was the nominee.

Why the second keeps getting ignored, i don't know.

The wording for the Foundation Award suggests that the club (ie, management) submits the nomination, not the players. The player vote one is the King Clancy, which is what Pacioretty was up for. (Condon was the Masterton nominee.)

NHL clubs submitted nominations for the award, and the finalists were selected by a judging panel. The NHL Foundation will present $25,000 to the chosen charitable organization of this year's recipient.

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-foundation-player-award-finalists-named/c-280547474

For the Masterton write-up, it states that the players voted: http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=877399

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I don't hate Houle. He's a good guy who was in over his head. Trembley, I hate with the same passion as therrien. Just like therrien he didn't like Roy before he was coach and wanted to cut him down to size.

I said 4 years ago that therrien was a lousy coach and would end up costing subban. Only I thought subban would have gotten fed up and walked away. I didn't realize that management would be so incompetent that that would chose MT over Subban. I didn't know MB, but didn't think Molson as owner would be that stupid. Now we have Weber for at most 3 years as an elite defenceman (probably 2). Even than, he is not as good as a dman that subban is. They scored the same amount of points and subban played 10 fewer games on a LOUSY coached team that couldn't score and has a crap PP. i think subban gets over 70 points next year.

Oh. I didn't know that. I'm trying to rationalize why Bergevin would make such a horrible mistake, and I can only think of dressing room issues. I want to blame Therrien for the whole thing. I can't help but think that if Crawford were hired as head coach, he would have begged MB to give him a chance to work with Subban. I am floored by the stupidity of this move, and I can't believe that this trade would happen if all was rosey in the room. If it comes out that MT was the reason, I will hate him forever. I don't blame Tremblay or Houle directly for the Roy shenanigans. They had no idea what they were doing. They were working way above their abilities. MB and MT are experienced hockey managers. If this is their fault, I will hate them far more than Houle or Tremblay.

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I suggested before the trade that Dumber (a.k.a. Bergevin) never liked being hard-balled on the Subban contract and might, from that moment, have been receptive in principle to trading Subban. I never imagined he'd weaken the organization in order to make his point, however, which is why I never really worried about it all that much.

Dumb (a.k.a. Therrien) clearly never liked Subban at all. But again, I never imagined that Dumber would ship Subban out of town for anything other than a home run, so I never thought it mattered a whole lot.

That's why Therrien is merely 'Dumb' and Bergevin is 'Dumber.' The former 'merely' allowed his ego to get in the way of making optimal use of an outstanding asset. The latter is the one who proved stupid enough to actually pull the trigger, and trade at a discount our first position-player superstar in 40 years - effectively choosing an average NHL coach over a top-5 defenceman in the league. I had no idea Dumber was such a hide-bound, plodding moron.

In terms of locker room dynamics, getting Price back would have meant winning, and winning would have cured whatever ailed us. Again, in 2014-15, our room was supposedly amazing. What changed was not the personalities, but that we started losing. This was a 'solution' to a non-problem; a stupid solution at that.

All that said, Habs29 is right that we probably have 2-3 elite years out of Weber. Better win the Cup in that span...

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Le Genius is an a$$hole and Mark down Marky is just stupid. I guess we can't reall call him that anymore with some the $ he has spent lately.

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If free agency has proven anything, it's that there's a lot of stupid GM's still in the league. If Montreal fails in the next few years to win a stanley cup then with no NTC or NMC Weber can be moved as some dumb GM will still see value in him.

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Le Genius is an a$$hole and Mark down Marky is just stupid. I guess we can't reall call him that anymore with some the $ he has spent lately.

Asshole and Stupid eh? Well thought out, intelligent, mature and insightful post sir. :hammer:

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Le Genius is an a$$hole and Mark down Marky is just stupid. I guess we can't reall call him that anymore with some the $ he has spent lately.

that is the way I would have said it but CC is a word master with his post above you :blush:

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Asshole and Stupid eh? Well thought out, intelligent, mature and insightful post sir. :hammer:

why thank you Don, I put a lot of thought into it.

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why thank you Don, I put a lot of thought into it.

...you must be a Donald Trump speechwriter arnt you? :popcorn:

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Wow, it really sounds like Subban was a cancer in the dressing room, all right. :nuts: It just shows how full of sh*t that whole narrative is.

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Wow, it really sounds like Subban was a cancer in the dressing room, all right. :nuts: It just shows how full of sh*t that whole narrative is.

Yep, I guess Subban was a real bad influence on our most important players going forward.

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Wow, it really sounds like Subban was a cancer in the dressing room, all right. :nuts: It just shows how full of sh*t that whole narrative is.

I think that narrative has been argued by both sides and I've never fully agreed with it either. It seems like everyone is talking about his character whether they hate the move or rationalize the move that way.

People may not agree with me but I think around the league PK Subban is (was) as much the identity of the Montreal Canadiens as Carey Price. I know for sure when the Anaheim Ducks and LA Kings were promoting their games against the Habs last season it was "PK Subban and the Montreal Canadiens are in town". Sure, Carey Price was injured but if he wasn't it would have just been "Carey Price, PK Subban and the Montreal Canadiens".

The point is, character issues or not, if you want to change the aura and identity of the team, PK Subban is the man, unfortunately. You have a 6-7 year commitment to a guy and the longer it goes, the more likely it is that Subban becomes a lifer. Like it or not I guess MB decided PK Subban wasn't going to be the face of the franchise for the next decade.

People keep getting upset about those who mention that in the future Weber can be traded but that statement should not be taken in a way that justifies the trade in the present. One could argue (and everyone and their mother has been arguing) that PK Subban is better than Shea Weber right now. From a personal standpoint I tend to agree but I think they bring different elements to the table and I don't think outside of the excitement and entertainment value, that they are that far off from one another. I also believe that on an off topic note, this is Beaulieu's chance to break through and become a Letang... I do have high expectations from him this season and I never have before.

My point there is that in the short term we have changed the identity of the team, for better or for worse and we have gotten back a top pairing d man who has great respect around the league. No one can claim they know Weber's exact timeline and Subban will eventually decline as well. If Weber does not pan out or declines rapidly, he will still have value and the reason this is significant is because we can either trade for another solid player or have cap space (that we no longer pay PK) to sign an elite player. It's not the short term plan but the option is there.

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Everyone blabbing about "metric numbers", hockey isn't a freaking computer simulated activity. It's played in real time, flesh and bones and blood, by human beings with personalities.

Habs are better off without Subban REGARDLESS OF THE RETURN. That is what people can't seem to comprehend. The team's priority was to move him for whatever they could get. It's a team sport even though the media and fan focus is on individuals. Subban was self serving on the ice and off. The team is better off without him before you even factor Weber into the mix.

Shane Doan was the top scorer on his team at 40. Weber is a similar type of athlete. He will be effective for as long and probably longer than Subban despite the age difference.

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Everyone blabbing about "metric numbers", hockey isn't a freaking computer simulated activity. It's played in real time, flesh and bones and blood, by human beings with personalities.

Habs are better off without Subban REGARDLESS OF THE RETURN. That is what people can't seem to comprehend. The team's priority was to move him for whatever they could get. It's a team sport even though the media and fan focus is on individuals. Subban was self serving on the ice and off. The team is better off without him before you even factor Weber into the mix.

Shane Doan was the top scorer on his team at 40. Weber is a similar type of athlete. He will be effective for as long and probably longer than Subban despite the age difference.

:popcorn:

I tend to agree with the overrated use of analytics as there are a bazillion variables in each and every game, but there's some bold statements in there that I'm sure someone will respond to thoroughly

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