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2016-17 NHL Season Thread


dlbalr
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There's so much wrong with these recent posts. 

 

RE: The narrative that PK Subban was a problem in the locker room but is causing no problems in Nashville.

 

The impact a player like Shea Weber or PK Subban have in the locker room cannot be compared between Nashville and Montreal. On Montreal, he was apparently our best position player since Guy Lafleur and in Nashville he is not even the second coming of Ryan Ellis. What is the reason for this? Our current roster does not have the same top end talent as some other teams. That's why Subban was overrated as a player on the Habs and it's the same reason Weber is by far our best defenseman even though he as well may have been outshined by Ellis or Josi on the Preds. 

 

On the Montreal Canadiens, P.K. Subban would not have been praised for being our shutdown defenseman. We needed him in an offensive role since Markov, Petry and Beaulieu were our only other options to be offensively helpful from the back end. This is not to mention that our coaching staff would have been crucified if Subban were to be held back (!) A shutdown role? (!)

 

On the Montreal Canadiens, P.K. Subban's influence was large. It was just as large as Weber's is because we have less core pieces than other contending teams. On Nashville, he's blending in with all that other skill.  It's entirely plausible that there were issues in our locker room and also that he has grown as a result of the trade. It's just as likely as the "he was traded instead of Therrien getting fired" narrative. Even if he wasn't an issue, I can see wanting to switch up the leadership core. 

 

Next, Shea Weber's leadership. First of all, Shea Weber is great at more things than simply being a leader. The fact that none of the people who complain about Weber (yes it's complaining about Weber when you say the trade was crap) don't mention that he failed to produce as much as we may have liked on the power play as even one of their complaints about him, leads me to believe that these same people are being narrow minded. All we hear is talk about his leadership, or lack there of, or how leadership doesn't even exist because these same people fail to let sink in that Weber brings more things than leadership to the table. I thought Weber played great but I wanted to see more from him on the power play. One or two more goals from him and we could have won a series. I don't think we lost because his leadership skills weren't indeed solid. 

 

While there is also no evidence that Weber's leadership didn't actually help us, there are other things to talk about when it comes to Weber. When it does come to his leadership, I saw a more organized team out there this season. For better or worse, there clearly was a difference. 

 

Let's not forget, finally, that the trade did not actually matter. If we didn't trade Subban, Price would have been the only reason we did as well as we did this season anyway. It wouldn't have mattered if we did not make the playoffs or if we went to round 4. Price would have been the only reason. The fact Price didn't have a great season doesn't matter as well as the fact that it's also entirely possible that without Weber and Radulov we would have ended with lower points than we had this season. I understand that we only go as far as Price, but the statement only goes so far and based on the last 10 years of evidence, we need more than Price to win a cup.  Are we saying that with Price in net, there was legitimately a 0% chance we did worse this season than last season? It's obviously unlikely as our goaltending sucked last season, but something isn't adding up with all this logic.

 

 

 

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1) He's not being outshined by Ryan Ellis and Roman Josi. 

 

Don't be that guy who is only looking at goals and assists, and not looking at the job that Subban did against Toews line in the first round, and against Tarasenko's line in the second round.  There is a reason that Subban/Ekholm is playing the minutes against the other team's number 1 line so far in these playoffs. 

 

2) The point is about the room though.  Subban isn't causing problems in the Nashville room.  Removing "Weber's leadership" isn't causing the Nashville team to do worse. Surely if Weber's leadership mattered as much as we've been told it does, Nashville wouldn't be having its most successful playoff run ever the first year he was gone.

 

Meanwhile in montreal the GM is calling the team "fragile".  The fact is that the "leadership" aspect was harped on ad nauseum by the proponents of the trade.

 

This isn't a knock on Weber.

 

This is a knock on tired cliches and media narratives that things like "leadership" and "character" matter more than skill.  Its just not true.  Unfortunately our GM seems to be buying that narrative, not just in this move, but in many others. 

 

3) Price didn't have a great season?  Second in the NHL in 5v5 save percentage.  Third in the NHL in overall Save Percentage. Nominated for the Vezina, .933 save percentage in the playoffs.  Not a great season?  Our expectations might be run amok here. 

 

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The Habs were missing a game breaker aside from Radulov (who wanted to be a Hab before Weber came in, and turned down a two year deal with other teams to come here for one year. But nah let's credit Shea. He's the only reason we had Quebec loving Radulov!) against New York but nah the series would have been the same.

 

It's like 2014-15 didn't exist to some people. With Subban and a healthy Price Montreal won 50 games and went to the second round. We needed more scoring support. Bergevin went lazy and cheap and got Fleischmann and Semin. Price went down and Montreal went from the hottest team in the league to the bottom of the barrel. We were still near the top of the standings in late December when Bergevin traded for Scrivens instead of a real starter like Reimer. Subban was a near point per game player in 2016 before his injury. Then he gets blamed for the season?

 

2016-17 meant we scored five more goals than 14-15 and allowed 11 more goals. Habs out in the first round. In other words, similar season result with less playoff results.

 

Do I blame Weber? Not one bit. He did his job. All you can ask for him to do.

 

I blame the guy who hasn't added a top six centre in five years. I blame the guy who has gone into every season having to fill a hole in the top six RW. I blame the guy who allowed the left defence to become Markov and a bunch of plugs. I blame the guy who watched two coaches mess with the third overall pick instead of letting him play a full season at centre. I blame the guy who traded Subban. I blame the guy who inherited Carey Price in his prime and instead of building the team with firewagon offence because we all knew Carey would stop the puck, he focused all of his attention on the defence and bottom six. 

 

I blame Bergevin and everyone he brought in. I defended him for years. I bought the lies. Not cheering this team until he's fired.

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Guest Stogey24
4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Regarding the two previous posts, by Commandant and Machine: HEAR HEAR.

Yup

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TVA Sports are saying that  Ray Shero agreed to sign and trade Kovalchuk to any team who would reach an agreement with him before July 1st so he could sign his contract on July 1st...

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2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

The Habs were missing a game breaker aside from Radulov (who wanted to be a Hab before Weber came in, and turned down a two year deal with other teams to come here for one year. But nah let's credit Shea. He's the only reason we had Quebec loving Radulov!) against New York but nah the series would have been the same.

 

It's like 2014-15 didn't exist to some people. With Subban and a healthy Price Montreal won 50 games and went to the second round. We needed more scoring support. Bergevin went lazy and cheap and got Fleischmann and Semin. Price went down and Montreal went from the hottest team in the league to the bottom of the barrel. We were still near the top of the standings in late December when Bergevin traded for Scrivens instead of a real starter like Reimer. Subban was a near point per game player in 2016 before his injury. Then he gets blamed for the season?

 

2016-17 meant we scored five more goals than 14-15 and allowed 11 more goals. Habs out in the first round. In other words, similar season result with less playoff results.

 

Do I blame Weber? Not one bit. He did his job. All you can ask for him to do.

 

I blame the guy who hasn't added a top six centre in five years. I blame the guy who has gone into every season having to fill a hole in the top six RW. I blame the guy who allowed the left defence to become Markov and a bunch of plugs. I blame the guy who watched two coaches mess with the third overall pick instead of letting him play a full season at centre. I blame the guy who traded Subban. I blame the guy who inherited Carey Price in his prime and instead of building the team with firewagon offence because we all knew Carey would stop the puck, he focused all of his attention on the defence and bottom six. 

 

I blame Bergevin and everyone he brought in. I defended him for years. I bought the lies. Not cheering this team until he's fired.

 

200% This off-season is his last stand for me.

 

Unfortunately. Im not sure winning will ever be a priority, because no matter what, people will go.

 

Keep in mind Geoff Molson is a business man. His family has sold watered down poison for profit for generations.

 

 

 

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Guest Stogey24
39 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

TVA Sports are saying that  Ray Shero agreed to sign and trade Kovalchuk to any team who would reach an agreement with him before July 1st so he could sign his contract on July 1st...

I wonder what it would take to get him 

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22 minutes ago, sbhatt said:

It would appear the Islanders hope to entice Tavares to stay by throwing a high number and long term at him:  $80million over 8 years

 

http://www.tsn.ca/report-8-year-80m-offer-likely-for-tavares-1.746529

 

Yeah...getting Tavares (or Kovalchuk) will be 'tough' :rolleyes:

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18 minutes ago, sbhatt said:

It would appear the Islanders hope to entice Tavares to stay by throwing a high number and long term at him:  $80million over 8 years

 

http://www.tsn.ca/report-8-year-80m-offer-likely-for-tavares-1.746529

 

He hurt his hamstring on soft ice. Apparently the Barkley ctr had awful ice all year.

 

Im sure Tavares wants out of there. If he stays he has some serious old school loyalty.

 

If he goes to the leafs and they have Tavares Matthews for the next decade.. :wacko::unsure:

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Guest Stogey24
3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yeah...getting Tavares (or Kovalchuk) will be 'tough' :rolleyes:

Well Beregvin's career is riding on a big summer. 

 

If your going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at someone, it might as well be Tavares. 

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It's crazy to see Crosby out their playing after getting concussed.

 

Then takes a massive spill into the boards head first and is slow to get up. Every time he gets hit now I just cringe.

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47 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

It's crazy to see Crosby out their playing after getting concussed.

 

Then takes a massive spill into the boards head first and is slow to get up. Every time he gets hit now I just cringe.

 

Until doctors are no longer "team doctors" it'll continue.

 

Doctors and trainers need to be separate from the team and independent when conducting injury tests. The days of "Let him play" need to be gone. 

 

Dennis Wideman is in a lawsuit with a referee for hitting him when everyone watching the video can see post-hit that Wideman is concussed out of his brain cells and a trainer still almost let him back on the bench. And it feels like the whole thing could be shut down if a doctor said, "He was concussed, he didn't know who he was hitting, he just wanted to get back to the bench as soon as possible" but nobody wants to go down that road.

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26 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

Dallas trades the Habs 2017 4th round pick for the negotiating rights to Ben Bishop.

 

Solid move, and quite a game changer for Dallas if he signs.

 

 

The Kings did not do so good in getting Bishop. They gave up Budaj (who played well for them) a young defence prospect (who looks good) and a couple of picks (no real loss) for what is now a 4th 5th and I think a conditional pick in 2017. I think they should have stuck with Budaj.

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14 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

The weakest team since Carolina in 2009 makes the Eastern Conference final.

Coached by the guy we should have hired last year.

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13 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

The Habs were missing a game breaker aside from Radulov (who wanted to be a Hab before Weber came in, and turned down a two year deal with other teams to come here for one year. But nah let's credit Shea. He's the only reason we had Quebec loving Radulov!) against New York but nah the series would have been the same.

 

 

First off. I am not a Bergevin fan. He has failed to address holes in the team's line up. His group has failed to develop a single impact player (which is, in my opinion the biggest problem.) But the fact still remains that Weber played a  part in  the Radulov signing.

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/shea-weber-could-keep-carey-price-alexander-radulov-in-montreal/c-289080524

 

 

Now that Radulov has proven himself as a legitimate top-line NHL forward and has the opportunity to get a longer-term contract and a raise from his current $5.75 million salary, he hasn't forgotten one of the reasons he got his opportunity in Montreal.

"[Weber] is obviously, he's my friend, first of all, since a long time," Radulov said. "He was the guy who actually helped me to [get] here. … I'm thankful to him and I enjoyed [playing] with him. Hopefully we can work it out and I'll be here."

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10 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

The weakest team since Carolina in 2009 makes the Eastern Conference final.

 

I haven't paid much attention to that series, but I'm surprised the Rags were such an easy out for a team that I didn't even rate as a second-tier contender. Is it possible we are underrating the Sens? Or is this just one of those golden runs?

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It's pretty simple, the Sens can score goals, and there best players are there best players every game period. 

 

You can't win in the playoffs scoring 9 goals in 6 games

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11 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

First off. I am not a Bergevin fan. He has failed to address holes in the team's line up. His group has failed to develop a single impact player (which is, in my opinion the biggest problem.) But the fact still remains that Weber played a  part in  the Radulov signing.

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/shea-weber-could-keep-carey-price-alexander-radulov-in-montreal/c-289080524

 

 

Now that Radulov has proven himself as a legitimate top-line NHL forward and has the opportunity to get a longer-term contract and a raise from his current $5.75 million salary, he hasn't forgotten one of the reasons he got his opportunity in Montreal.

"[Weber] is obviously, he's my friend, first of all, since a long time," Radulov said. "He was the guy who actually helped me to [get] here. … I'm thankful to him and I enjoyed [playing] with him. Hopefully we can work it out and I'll be here."

 

Now I'm not sure who I should believe, Machine of Loving Grace or Alexander Radulov 

 

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I haven't paid much attention to that series, but I'm surprised the Rags were such an easy out for a team that I didn't even rate as a second-tier contender. Is it possible we are underrating the Sens? Or is this just one of those golden runs?

 

It wasn't much of a surprise that Ottawa got through Boston in the first round, but I think it is that they beat the Rangers. Lundqvist let in a handful of goals in the series that he should have had and to me that was the difference. 

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I haven't paid much attention to that series, but I'm surprised the Rags were such an easy out for a team that I didn't even rate as a second-tier contender. Is it possible we are underrating the Sens? Or is this just one of those golden runs?

 

Helps when the Rangers goalie lets in a bunch of weak ones and has a .905 save percentage for the series. 

 

Where were those weak ones earlier in the playoffs. 

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