GDT Montreal Canadiens vs. Anaheim Ducks | November 29th, 2016 | 10:00 EST

[BCHabnut]

This^

[DON]

18 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Well, let's look at it another way. As I remarked at the start of this thread, the Habs - while respected as a good team - are not generally regarded by 'experts' and media commentators as in the front-rank of contenders. Now they may well be just plain wrong. But it's worth asking why there seems to be a near-consensus on this. If the Habs really are 'just as good' as teams like Chicago, St Louis, NYR, TB, Pitts, and WASH, how come nobody other than some Habs fans see it?

 

I think a lot of it has to do with (1) the fact that our only legitimate top-6 C is a 24-year-old just rounding into form - C is generally regarded as a key position in a playoff drive; and I don't believe for one second that Pleks or DD are suddenly going to go on Bolland-like tears in the playoffs ; (2) that the Habs, despite Price, often look unconvincing in their own end; and (3) this generation of Habs has never gone past the semi-finals, and its one semi-final appearance was unimpressive. The Habs also don't play what they like to call a 'heavy' game, and lack the superstar firepower needed to compensate.

 

This may be a mix of prejudices and defensible analysis. But I think this is really what Habs fans want to see: their team being widely rated as among the league's very best, a bona-fide front-rank contender, a team that everybody fears - not just a team with a legit chance to make the finals (and probably then lose to some team that is either 'heavier' or faster and more skilled than we are) if everything goes just so.

I could give a rats butt how team is rated, that is just goofy to care about that fluff. But if that is how you want to see the Habs....through Doug Mclean's or some other talking head's eyes,  not sure what else to say.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Just now, DON said:

I could give a rats butt how team is rated, that is just goofy to care about that fluff. But if that is how you want to see the Habs....through Doug Mclean's or some other talking head's eyes,  not sure what else to say.

 

The issue is that I'm not convinced the consensus opinion is wrong. But is is true that I would rather the Habs be widely feared. Which is more than you can say, apparently.

[DON]

16 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Yeah... look at how many starts he got in November and tell me if it looks like he's playing less than in the past. 

 

Therrien has shown zero signs of actually playing Carey less. 

Price is on pace for 53.4 games this year. Pretty good sign he will play less...is that better?

[DON]

13 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

Makes very little sense?  

 

I know things go over your head. just take it slow buddy  

So if we go back to start of 15-16 season you picked Pitt to contend? You were in a small crowd then. Vast majority called Hawks-Tampa-Rangers-Ducks or others to win cup...not Penquins.

But you being Rasputin-like, know who is 'legit' contender,,,Habs arnt a contender, so who will win cup?

[DON]

11 hours ago, JGC21 said:

 

Please don't ever compare Leafs fans to Habs fans... it's not right.  

You insinuated you were not a "pro"-Habfan so what exactly does that make you? 

[DON]

14 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The issue is that I'm not convinced the consensus opinion is wrong. But is is true that I would rather the Habs be widely feared. Which is more than you can say, apparently.

Widely feared is exactly how Habs are seen to other teams, don't fool yourself into thinking other wise. Same as playing NJ with Martin B in net, biggest X-factorwhne a goalie shuts the door and stops everything often.

But, keep on letting broadcasters make your opinion for you.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

45 minutes ago, DON said:

Widely feared is exactly how Habs are seen to other teams, don't fool yourself into thinking other wise. Same as playing NJ with Martin B in net, biggest X-factorwhne a goalie shuts the door and stops everything often.

But, keep on letting broadcasters make your opinion for you.

 

Price is widely feared - even spoken of with awe by everyone. The team as a whole? Not so much.

 

As for the gratuitious last sentence: f**k off.

[illWill]

12 hours ago, JGC21 said:

 

Please don't ever compare Leafs fans to Habs fans... it's not right.  

 

At least Leaf fans are grateful for the little success their team shows and aren't complaining about their team that is first in the league. 

 

I could understand it if I were a fan of the Stars, Capitals, Panthers, Islanders, Jets, and Predators. Teams that are doing worse than expected. You'd think a jump from 22nd overall to 1st overall would ignite at least some positivity in those that drink from half empty glasses. 

 

I also don't get how teams like the Blues, Rangers, Capitals, Predators, Sharks, and Lightning get league wide praise year in and year out as contenders, but have the same amount of Cups in that span as the "non-contender" Habs

[Machine of Loving Grace]

36 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Price is widely feared - even spoken of with awe by everyone. The team as a whole? Not so much.

 

As for the gratuitious last sentence: f**k off.

 

I think Galchenyuk and Radulov are scouted heavily to be defended against and Weber is also coached to have his lanes blocked so he can't get a good shot. 

 

After that? I don't think anyone worries too much beyond if they are going to beat Price or not. Teams know you get two behind a Habs goalie and you might have the game won. 

[illWill]

2 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I think Galchenyuk and Radulov are scouted heavily to be defended against and Weber is also coached to have his lanes blocked so he can't get a good shot. 

 

After that? I don't think anyone worries too much beyond if they are going to beat Price or not. Teams know you get two behind a Habs goalie and you might have the game won. 

 

They don't discuss Byron on the penalty kill? Pacioretty's deadly shot from anywhere? Boxing out Gallagher and Shaw in front of the net? Markov on the powerplay? Keeping their head up against Emelin? 

 

It's interesting to find out first hand what other teams prepare for 

[Commandant]

18 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

They don't discuss Byron on the penalty kill? Pacioretty's deadly shot from anywhere? Boxing out Gallagher and Shaw in front of the net? Markov on the powerplay? Keeping their head up against Emelin? 

 

It's interesting to find out first hand what other teams prepare for 

 

Other teams do way less preparation than we'd think, at least according to MOLG. 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

43 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

At least Leaf fans are grateful for the little success their team shows and aren't complaining about their team that is first in the league. 

 

I could understand it if I were a fan of the Stars, Capitals, Panthers, Islanders, Jets, and Predators. Teams that are doing worse than expected. You'd think a jump from 22nd overall to 1st overall would ignite at least some positivity in those that drink from half empty glasses. 

 

I also don't get how teams like the Blues, Rangers, Capitals, Predators, Sharks, and Lightning get league wide praise year in and year out as contenders, but have the same amount of Cups in that span as the "non-contender" Habs

 

Good post. The last sentence is interesting. I tried to offer some speculative answers to it above: e.g., glaring weakness at C; falling between the cracks of a 'heavy' and a high-end skill game. I'd also reiterate my comment that the goalie-dependent model can prove problematic in a seven-game series: there is a realistic chance that a Holtby or a Murray or a Bishop will sufficiently narrow the gap between themselves and Price over a short series to allow their teams' superior overall skill to make the difference. Finally, several of the teams you list have been to the Finals, which tends to give them an aura of potential champs. This is not unreasonable, since unlike the Habs, those teams have actually shown that they can go the distance.

 

As for 'negative' Habs fans, part of the issue may be that this iteration of the Habs has tended to disappoint. They go on a Cup tear, then Price gets hurt and poof, elimination. Then they find ways to lose in the series v.s. TB. (When I think of that series, I think of two things: one is Subban shaking his head in disbelief after ringing a boomer off the crossbar, obviously asking himself what else can go wrong; and Pleks's appalling failure of dump-in that led directly to Johnson's back-breaking end-to-end winning goal in the last three seconds of one of those games). Then they have a complete melt-down and miss the playoffs after starting the season on an unbelievable tear. While I think you can look at that and say, 'those are the kinds of growing pains you need to have before you can win,' the pattern also tends to instill a healthy skepticism.

 

Now I don't think a total fatalism is at all warranted. This team is definitely in the mix and should win at least one round. IF MB can add either a top-4 d-man or a top-6 C, it probably will vault into the front rank of contenders. But as it stands, it's reasonable to question whether it's there yet.

[DON]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Price is widely feared - even spoken of with awe by everyone. The team as a whole? Not so much.

 

As for the gratuitious last sentence: f**k off.

Look, you are the one speaking highly of 'how the team is viewed by others', so seems not too far a stretch for my last comment (and obviously not to be taken 100% serious). But, seems touched a nerve or perhaps was too much and for that I apologize.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Other teams do way less preparation than we'd think, at least according to MOLG. 

 

I doubt players are gripping their sticks in fear of playing Paul Byron. I also doubt coaches are building entire gameplans to stop Paul Byron.

 

That's the point. Teams know if they score two goals on Price, they close Weber's lanes, and they stop the Radulov/Galchenyuk duo (which is pretty much why Byron has seven goals in the past 21 games), they have a pretty good chance of winning the game. Until Pacioretty/Plekanec/Gallagher really get going (Pacioretty's stats honestly aren't that bad but he struggles right now without the puck), teams aren't worrying much. And since Carey Price played 11 of a possible 14 games in November, I doubt anyone has worries about him being fresh come April if Therrien doesn't start playing Al Montoya more. 

[JGC21]

3 hours ago, DON said:

You insinuated you were not a "pro"-Habfan so what exactly does that make you? 

 

A Habs fan I am, but I can see the good with the bad.  I think the current team is good, but not great.  Their record is impressive but lets wait and see what it looks like after this road trip.  Can MTL make the playoffs, sure.  Are they built to go deep, not likely IMO.  They need a few more pieces in order to convince me.  Perhaps I just don't see the team through your rosey goggles, that's all.

[DON]

1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I doubt players are gripping their sticks in fear of playing Paul Byron. I also doubt coaches are building entire gameplans to stop Paul Byron.

 

, I doubt anyone has worries about him being fresh come April if Therrien doesn't start playing Al Montoya more. 

What idiot would game plan around any one player?

You do know Montoya is playing today? and OK... once again Montoya will be on pace for 27.33 games this year, what the heck did you want him to play, 30gms?

 

Seems people are digging awfully deep to find petty stuff to complain about these days.