The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Stogey24 said: I don't get why this team can't catch a break. Can almost guarantee chucky's injury is serious too, with all this secrecy I like my theory that we are halfway through the 50-year punishment required by the Hockey Gods, as the Faustian price for our half-century of hockey supremacy (1943-1993). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 29 minutes ago, Stogey24 said: McCarron is a projected #3. I don't see him doing much with Radulov and Pacioretty. Maybe be good on the PP, he does make quite a nice screen on goalies, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 35 minutes ago, DON said: Yakupov has been a healthy scratch and recently traded for a bag of pucks...for a reason. Don't get it, do people think McCarron can actually play top 6? Mitchell and Danault are both better options, maybe even Gallagher, Hudon, Lehkonen would be a cut above McCarron, who might be fine in bottom six role, but shouldnt expect much of an impact from him. McCarron is the #1C in St. John's, not the #3 or #4... He's playing between arguably the 2 most talented players on the team in andrighetto and sherbak... so what exact smoke you blowing? 2 of our top 3 centres are OUT! Danault and Mitchell are already playing!!!!!! Is this even a question? Are WE forgetting this guy played himself on to the habs but was only cut due to the politics of a cap era?? Sure he isn't ripping the score sheet as well as started the seAson in horrible fashion but ONLY after getting cut from the habs after out performing DD daily in practice and games as well as being the standout in Rookie camp. So I can see the drop in emotion energy and confidence. But, he has bounced back since being suspended for head butting a guy for taking liberties. That coupled with having to constantly fight off the goonery still in the AHL has caused some early adversity in his sophomore year... Personally id like to see him play cause it would be refreshing to see such a presence in the line up at C... he can win face offs, plays the PK and is a net presence on the PP. I just think he'll be a better NHLer then AHLer... The moment McCarron is game ready he will be called up... and will play, it's only logical with the injuries we have at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: McCarron is the #1C in St. John's, not the #3 or #4... He's playing between arguably the 2 most talented players on the team in andrighetto and sherbak... so what exact smoke you blowing? 2 of our top 3 centres are OUT! Danault and Mitchell are already playing!!!!!! Is this even a question? Are WE forgetting this guy played himself on to the habs but was only cut due to the politics of a cap era?? Sure he isn't ripping the score sheet as well as started the seAson in horrible fashion but ONLY after getting cut from the habs after out performing DD daily in practice and games as well as being the standout in Rookie camp. So I can see the drop in emotion energy and confidence. But, he has bounced back since being suspended for head butting a guy for taking liberties. That coupled with having to constantly fight off the goonery still in the AHL has caused some early adversity in his sophomore year... Personally id like to see him play cause it would be refreshing to see such a presence in the line up at C... he can win face offs, plays the PK and is a net presence on the PP. I just think he'll be a better NHLer then AHLer... The moment McCarron is game ready he will be called up... and will play, it's only logical with the injuries we have at the moment! "McCarron is the #1C in St. John's, not the #3 or #4... He's playing between arguably the 2 most talented players on the team in andrighetto and sherbak... so what exact smoke you blowing?" - And he's not scoring at the AHL level "Are WE forgetting this guy played himself on to the habs but was only cut due to the politics of a cap era??" - if only that were true... its not... even if it were true, its also irrelevant when he hasn't played well in the AHL for the last 2 months. I don't understand why people think a player, who isn't scoring at the AHL level... while Scherbak and Andrighetto are, will be able to score in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I like my theory that we are halfway through the 50-year punishment required by the Hockey Gods, as the Faustian price for our half-century of hockey supremacy (1943-1993). Ugh. 10 minutes ago, Commandant said: "McCarron is the #1C in St. John's, not the #3 or #4... He's playing between arguably the 2 most talented players on the team in andrighetto and sherbak... so what exact smoke you blowing?" - And he's not scoring at the AHL level "Are WE forgetting this guy played himself on to the habs but was only cut due to the politics of a cap era??" - if only that were true... its not... even if it were true, its also irrelevant when he hasn't played well in the AHL for the last 2 months. I don't understand why people think a player, who isn't scoring at the AHL level... while Scherbak and Andrighetto are, will be able to score in the NHL. The lack of centre depth organizationally is embarrassing. Too bad De La Rose fell off the face of the earth. Not that he was turning heads with his scoring either though. Maybe Lehkonen can do something at centre ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 9 minutes ago, Stogey24 said: Ugh. The lack of centre depth organizationally is embarrassing. It sort of makes you wonder if our scouting isn't lacking somewhat...there seems to be a blind spot when it comes to the center position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Is Daniel Carr now considered a regular, cause he is the only forward in our regular lineup; who played a full season in the AHL after 2011. FIRE SYLVAIN LEFEBVRE ALREADY. Every other player we have drafted and made the roster, is a forward who spent no time with Sly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 2 hours ago, sbhatt said: It sort of makes you wonder if our scouting isn't lacking somewhat...there seems to be a blind spot when it comes to the center position. Well, to be fair, we DID draft a PPG C in Galchenyuk. But your wider point is valid. It's not just a recent thing, either. The Habs have had trouble drafting C for as long as I can remember. The teams of the '80s and '90s had stud C, but all were acquired from outside the organization (Bobby Smith, Muller, Turgeon). Internal development of C was a bit of a disaster from Wickenheiser onwards. Koivu and Galchenyuk were legit #1 C developed from within - even if Saks ended up as damaged goods - but other than that, the best we can point to are guys like Pleks, Ribeiro and Grabovski. And, of course, we traded two of those guys away for questionable return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 5 hours ago, Alpine said: I heard the announcers say last night that Radulov has and can play center. I also heard them say that Yakupov has been a healthy scratch for 4 out of 5 games. Montreal should grab him and pair him up with Radulov and Patchs until chucky gets back. Take a shot at him I am sure he would go cheap. In his last three KHL years, Radulov has taken a total of 89 faceoffs, including regular season and playoffs (and he didn't exactly do well on those). No, he's not a centre. Source for the stats: http://en.khl.ru/players/496/ As for Yakupov, does he really fit what the Habs need right now? They need help at centre, not an inconsistent right winger whose work ethic has been called into question multiple times. With Barberio back in the AHL, the Habs can afford a $2.5 million player at most right now. Do they want to burn pretty much all their remaining cap space as things stand on someone like Yakupov? That would be a big mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Impact centres typically are snatched up in top ten of draft, as Habs did exactly that when they had a top ten pick, with some guy named Galchenyuk. This year they took a d-man, who 99.9% of HabFans are gaga over, so instead of a centre they chose a d-man to replace or help fill d-depth, not because they lack good scouting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Habs have drafted 23 centers in the last decade. Of that number only 5 came in the first two rounds of the draft. 3 in the first round : McCarron (who was actually drafted as a winger), Galchenyuk (Habs current 1st line center), and Leblanc (bust). Ben Maxwell (bust) and Jacob de la Rose (maybe a 4th liner) were 2nd rounders. Aside from those 5 only 2 have played in the NHL. Ryan White played over 200 NHL games and Gabriel Dumont played less than 100 NHL games. Joonas Nattinen was a bust, but after him there were a lot of longshots or "projects" drafted that didn't pan out. Habs still have Bitten, Pezzetta (longshot/project), Vejdemo (longshot/project), Bradley (longshot), Audette, Evans, Crisp (longshot/project), Gregoire (longshot/project), and MacMillan (longshot/project) in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 44 minutes ago, DON said: Impact centres typically are snatched up in top ten of draft, as Habs did exactly that when they had a top ten pick, with some guy named Galchenyuk. This year they took a d-man, who 99.9% of HabFans are gaga over, so instead of a centre they chose a d-man to replace or help fill d-depth, not because they lack good scouting. At the end of the day, if you're not drafting high, you need your scouts to be more than 'good.' They have to pull rabbits out of hats now and then. Our scouts did just that with Gallagher and Subban, but had they managed to do it just once with a C (after Koivu, who was just such a 'rabbit,' an elite C drafted late in the first round) we wouldn't even be talking about this. Beyond that, the apparent lack of ANY legitimate top-6 C prospects, never mind a stud #1, in the system surely is a reasonable indictment. This isn't to say the team drafts poorly in general, just that it has done so at C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: At the end of the day, if you're not drafting high, you need your scouts to be more than 'good.' They have to pull rabbits out of hats now and then. Our scouts did just that with Gallagher and Subban, but had they managed to do it just once with a C (after Koivu, who was just such a 'rabbit,' an elite C drafted late in the first round) we wouldn't even be talking about this. Beyond that, the apparent lack of ANY legitimate top-6 C prospects, never mind a stud #1, in the system surely is a reasonable indictment. This isn't to say the team drafts poorly in general, just that it has done so at C. Partly an issue of being the only major league team in all of Quebec. In Chicago or PItt the NHL team can be a basement dweller for a decade and no uproar at all, in Quebec the team must try and make playoffs every year and it has cost them numerous top draft picks for the Mara & Sopel's of the league. Which is Mgmt's call not scouting department, so safe to say Habs Mgmt has to be more short sighted and kowtow to media, fanbase and even politicians to keep the mob at bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Part of the issue is development. Who has spent any length of time with Sly and become a good NHLer? Gallagher was half a season. No AHL time for Lehkonen or Chucky. Carr is a 13th forward. Beaulieu hasn't reached his potential. Tinordi failed. The only guy exceeding expectations, and who spent time with our AHL coaches is Pateryn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 6 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I like my theory that we are halfway through the 50-year punishment required by the Hockey Gods, as the Faustian price for our half-century of hockey supremacy (1943-1993). "Curse of the McSorely stick" is supposed to be that because the Habs spied on the Kings and ratted McSorely out, leading to a powerplay and turning the tide in the Cup final, Montreal and all Canadian teams are cursed to never win the Cup again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 38 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said: "Curse of the McSorely stick" Ask Donald Brashear about this curse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Commandant said: Part of the issue is development. Who has spent any length of time with Sly and become a good NHLer? Gallagher was half a season. No AHL time for Lehkonen or Chucky. Carr is a 13th forward. Beaulieu hasn't reached his potential. Tinordi failed. The only guy exceeding expectations, and who spent time with our AHL coaches is Pateryn. But, which prospect have you seen had change of scenery from Sly and done better elsewhere? Can you even name one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 After wasting their best development years.... age 20-24, why would they suddenly get better elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 6 hours ago, Commandant said: Is Daniel Carr now considered a regular, cause he is the only forward in our regular lineup; who played a full season in the AHL after 2011. FIRE SYLVAIN LEFEBVRE ALREADY. Every other player we have drafted and made the roster, is a forward who spent no time with Sly. No kidding. I can't figure out why MB thinks this guy is good. The haBS have a pretty crappy farm team right now, but it really looks like sly is a horrible coach. Can't developed one nhl regular in 5 years? Not one tradeable player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 12/6/2016 at 4:40 PM, illWill said: Well so much for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Commandant said: After wasting their best development years.... age 20-24, why would they suddenly get better elsewhere? OK...which ones do you think were mistreated? (Nygren, Tinordi, Thomas, Dietz, Ellis, Dumont, Bennett, Nattinen, de la Rose, Bournival, Fucale?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I think that out of that group, you should be able to develop a couple of NHLers. Which ones are hard to say because we haven't seen them be coached under a competent staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 14 hours ago, Commandant said: After wasting their best development years.... age 20-24, why would they suddenly get better elsewhere? God, I have been saying that for years! To augment your argument of waste; would somebody tell this organization that some playoff time might make a hell of a difference to all these prodigies. We are on the cusp of not making the playoffs for another year. Keeping Sly aboard is inexcusable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 11 hours ago, Commandant said: I think that out of that group, you should be able to develop a couple of NHLers. Which ones are hard to say because we haven't seen them be coached under a competent staff. So you have got zero prospects that you know have mistreated or should be in the NHL right now given 'better' coaching. I agree and cant think of any either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I have never heard ANYONE say a good thing about Lefevre. It's kind of incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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