CerebusClone Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 hours ago, DON said: Lots of assumptions and nonsense. So Weber will only be a #1 elite d-man for 4 more years, so in those 4 years Bergevin cant trade for any d-men and Sergachev-Juulsen-Mete all will not be NHL calibre when they are 23 or 24? So what does that have to do with Weber trade or who is #1 d-man for the Habs in 4 or 8 yrs. Really don't see your logic, other than bringing up your man-crush for that ex-hab. Another assumption is that Subban will still perform as well in the 30-35 years-old range, which I'm not so sure about. Because he's never been willing to adapt his game and play in a smarter way, Subban's strength relies mostly in his skating, dynamism, and willingness to take risks... those are traits likely to decrease over time, with age and as the bank account is already overflowing. If Subban loses even a step going into his 30s, the way he plays now it could really affect him. Also I don't see Subban as an elite defenseman in the NHL, he's without a doubt a star player, and one of the best 10-15 defense men in the league. If we only look at what he does great, then yes he's spectacular and looks awesome on the ice, but when you look at his overall game and effectiveness, I would definitely not place him among the elite group. He's nowhere near the likes of Lidstrom, Bourque, Pronger, Niedermayer, etc. And by the way, I absolutely love Shea Weber, I think he makes us better than Subban did however I would not call him elite either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 1 hour ago, CerebusClone said: Another assumption is that Subban will still perform as well in the 30-35 years-old range, which I'm not so sure about. Because he's never been willing to adapt his game and play in a smarter way, Subban's strength relies mostly in his skating, dynamism, and willingness to take risks... those are traits likely to decrease over time, with age and as the bank account is already overflowing. If Subban loses even a step going into his 30s, the way he plays now it could really affect him. Also I don't see Subban as an elite defenseman in the NHL, he's without a doubt a star player, and one of the best 10-15 defense men in the league. If we only look at what he does great, then yes he's spectacular and looks awesome on the ice, but when you look at his overall game and effectiveness, I would definitely not place him among the elite group. He's nowhere near the likes of Lidstrom, Bourque, Pronger, Niedermayer, etc. And by the way, I absolutely love Shea Weber, I think he makes us better than Subban did however I would not call him elite either. Defencemen who rely on Skill generally age better than those who rely on physical play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Commandant said: Defencemen who rely on Skill generally age better than those who rely on physical play. Depends on what skills... If we're taking about hockey IQ, vision, sound positioning, anticipating plays, etc. Then yes, and we have a great example in Montreal in Andrei Markov. He lost a step since his last knee injuries but remains a highly effective defender in the NHL, he's still a star player, and is still a valuable member of the team in all situations. Weber it will be interesting to see. His shot won't go away, his decision making won't go away, his size won't go away, and he's always done great with average skating skills and mobility. I would tend to think Weber will remain a very effective defender for quite a few years. He's very different than players like Steve Begin, Andrew Shaw, or Brendan Gallagher whose success depend heavily on taking a heavy toll on their bodies to compensate for a lack of skill. As for Subban, he's good a powerful shot although his aim and timing are questionable, that should not go away. However his thing really is rushing the puck, skating, and taking chances... what happens to him if loses even a little bit of that speed? His vision and hockey IQ are average at best so he cannot rely on that (he should have learned, but his comments over the years suggest that he was never willing). Defensively he's proven to be a very capable defender when he keeps his game simple - that can remain - however his skill set offensively would lead me to believe he could regress quickly with age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 We've gone over this all previously in the Subban trade thread... but with a lack of footspeed already, any loss of a step will really hurt weber... also when you throw that many hits your body can break down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 12 hours ago, Commandant said: We've gone over this all previously in the Subban trade thread... but with a lack of footspeed already, any loss of a step will really hurt weber... also when you throw that many hits your body can break down. All I am saying is that Weber or that ex-hab being #1 d-man on Habs will have dick all to do with 'whether' we should or shouldn't trade Sergachev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I don't want to stir the pot, but when did Subban ever have a string of like 10 games of being as bad as Weber has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, Stogey24 said: I don't want to stir the pot, but when did Subban ever have a string of like 10 games of being as bad as Weber has been. That's OK, Weber is the greatest defenceman in NHL history while PK Subban is at best a #5 d-man, according to the religious zealots on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Stogey24 said: I don't want to stir the pot, but when did Subban ever have a string of like 10 games of being as bad as Weber has been. Weber has been bad? News to me. Has his offensive production dried up? Yes but that has a lot to do with the PP not working too well right now, mainly due to Chucky being injured. Our main threats were Weber and Chucky, now it's only Weber but I feel they are trying to find that next threat. Personally I think Weber has still been excellent defensively and I know just from looking at him he might be battling a foot injury after he took that boomer off his boot against Detroit he has played a little safer but that's just speculation. Subban is playing great now too, I still feel they haven't found the right chemistry over in Nashville but that's a different topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Stogey24 said: I don't want to stir the pot, but when did Subban ever have a string of like 10 games of being as bad as Weber has been. How about right now? In his last 10 games, Subban has only 2 points. He's been a minus player in 6 of these games. There are some games I remember in that sequence where the Preds were leading, and lost the game with many goals where Subban was on the ice (although Subban wasn't necessarily to blame in any of the cases I've watched). This is not a great sequence for the most expensive defenseman in the league. Although I'm sure he'll turn things around soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 40 minutes ago, Scott462 said: Weber has been bad? News to me. Has his offensive production dried up? Yes but that has a lot to do with the PP not working too well right now, mainly due to Chucky being injured. Our main threats were Weber and Chucky, now it's only Weber but I feel they are trying to find that next threat. Personally I think Weber has still been excellent defensively and I know just from looking at him he might be battling a foot injury after he took that boomer off his boot against Detroit he has played a little safer but that's just speculation. Subban is playing great now too, I still feel they haven't found the right chemistry over in Nashville but that's a different topic. Have you been watching the games? He cant even make a pass right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 21 minutes ago, CerebusClone said: How about right now? In his last 10 games, Subban has only 2 points. He's been a minus player in 6 of these games. There are some games I remember in that sequence where the Preds were leading, and lost the game with many goals where Subban was on the ice (although Subban wasn't necessarily to blame in any of the cases I've watched). This is not a great sequence for the most expensive defenseman in the league. Although I'm sure he'll turn things around soon enough. He has 3pts, but that's beside the point. I've said in every game thread. Weber has looked either hurt, or in a slump, but he hasn't looked like he did to start the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, Stogey24 said: Have you been watching the games? He cant even make a pass right now Oh I have been watching the games. He can barely make a pass? I don't know about that but I know his shot does not look as dangerous which reinvforces my assumption of a hurt foot but he has rang a bunch of goal posts recently. Actually now that I think of it, a lot of goal posts. You can tell he is playing a little passive for sure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Scott462 said: Oh I have been watching the games. He can barely make a pass? I don't know about that but I know his shot does not look as dangerous which reinvforces my assumption of a hurt foot but he has rang a bunch of goal posts recently. Actually now that I think of it, a lot of goal posts. You can tell he is playing a little passive for sure though. Completely possible he's hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Like so many have already mentioned, unless we get a bonafide star player, i don't think we should trade Sergachev. We'll need someone to replace Markov very soon! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 20 hours ago, Habsfan said: Like so many have already mentioned, unless we get a bonafide star player, i don't think we should trade Sergachev. We'll need someone to replace Markov very soon! As per title of the thread, this is right on... ^ Sergachev could very well be a star player, he has the tools and body for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 11 minutes ago, KoRP said: As per title of the thread, this is right on... ^ Sergachev could very well be a star player, he has the tools and body for sure. Ya, his glutes are somethin else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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