Jonathan Drouin is a Hab. Mikhail Sergachev is not. 2018 conditional picks exchanged.

[hab29RETIRED]

4 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Drouin's advanced stats on the defensive side of the puck are considerably better than Galchenyuk. 

 

He is average to a small bit above average. 

 

Galchenyuk's defensive numbers are awful.

 

Their offensive numbers are about the same. 

I haven't seen the stats comparing their defensive ability and haven't seen enough lightening games, but articles like this have me worried:

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hockey/lightning/why-lightning-fans-wont-lose-sleep-over-drouin-trade-to-montreal/2327453

 

do we have a GM that is doing what is necessary to win, or just fill the roster with his image of what a good player should be?  What's baffling is that Drouin seems to be the same player as Galchenyuk- although galchenyuk has never walked out on his team.  Is this deal made by a desperate GM trying to save his job and the best way is to bring in a local boy?

[habs rule]

4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I haven't seen the stats comparing their defensive ability and haven't seen enough lightening games, but articles like this have me worried:

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hockey/lightning/why-lightning-fans-wont-lose-sleep-over-drouin-trade-to-montreal/2327453

 

do we have a GM that is doing what is necessary to win, or just fill the roster with his image of what a good player should be?  What's baffling is that Drouin seems to be the same player as Galchenyuk- although galchenyuk has never walked out on his team.  Is this deal made by a desperate GM trying to save his job and the best way is to bring in a local boy?

Well I think it is a pretty good trade on it's face. We THINK the sergy will be great, we don't know that he will. We needed offence and Drouin will supply. What does bother me is if Mark down Mark in his wisdom trades Galch, then I am pissed off. We need them both. He is good at finding defence then go  find some dammit. Do not trade Galch, not now. Unless Sid or Malkin are available, then go ahead.

[hab29RETIRED]

25 minutes ago, habs rule said:

Well I think it is a pretty good trade on it's face. We THINK the sergy will be great, we don't know that he will. We needed offence and Drouin will supply. What does bother me is if Mark down Mark in his wisdom trades Galch, then I am pissed off. We need them both. He is good at finding defence then go  find some dammit. Do not trade Galch, not now. Unless Sid or Malkin are available, then go ahead.

Agreed.  When this deal went down, I had apprehensions about losing sergechev after trading Subban last year.  In a time when everyone is going with fast puck moving dmen, we are probably going to have the most flat footed D in the league, with nothing in the cupboard.  Maybe MB sees the penguins win a cup with a bottom barrel D core and don't think d matters.  We have Weber, markov on his last legs and petry - which is better than what the pens had, but than we don't have Malkin and Crosby to drive the play.

 

I think with price, and an offence with drouin, galchenyuk, maxpac, Gallagher, radulov, a return to form from Gallagher and progression from lekhonan, we have a pretty decent offence - IF galchenyuk plays centre.

 

 Some had pointed out that drouin can play centre and that gave me some hope that maybe galchenyuk and drouin can fill the top two centre roles.  However, after reading articles and hear ferraro, button and others say that drouin is a winger and would have the same issues at centre, and is lost in his own end, I can't see drouin playing centre - especially with julien as coach.  Drouin was also pretty much a winger in junior and the NHL, so I think it would be more of a stretch for him to be a centre than galchenyuk.

 

in my opinion this team needs two centres in the top 6 (and I think galchenyuk should be one of them).  If galchenyuk isn't one of them, we are screwed unless MB suddenly becomes Sam pollack and makes an unbelievable trade like galchenyuk, Beaulieu, emelin and a first for McKinnon and duschane and gets vegas to pick up pleks.

[Guest Stogey24]

27 minutes ago, habs rule said:

Well I think it is a pretty good trade on it's face. We THINK the sergy will be great, we don't know that he will. We needed offence and Drouin will supply. What does bother me is if Mark down Mark in his wisdom trades Galch, then I am pissed off. We need them both. He is good at finding defence then go  find some dammit. Do not trade Galch, not now. Unless Sid or Malkin are available, then go ahead.

I'd trade Galchenyuk straight up for MacKinnon. 

 

That's the closest I'd let him go for. I still have a lot of faith in Chucky becoming an elite player  

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

28 minutes ago, habs rule said:

Well I think it is a pretty good trade on it's face. We THINK the sergy will be great, we don't know that he will. We needed offence and Drouin will supply. What does bother me is if Mark down Mark in his wisdom trades Galch, then I am pissed off. We need them both. He is good at finding defence then go  find some dammit. Do not trade Galch, not now. Unless Sid or Malkin are available, then go ahead.

 

I like the trade, the concern we share is with these Galy rumours.

[hab29RETIRED]

3 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

I'd trade Galchenyuk straight up for MacKinnon. 

 

That's the closest I'd let him go for. I still have a lot of faith in Chucky becoming an elite player  

I think everyone would.  Can't see Sakic doing that.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I like the trade, the concern we share is with these Galy rumours.

Yep.  Although I guess we should be happy he didn't get the true kiss of death - a denial by MB that he is trying to trade him 

[Lovett's Magnatones]

4 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

If Weber would have been on the Predators this season, he would have been their leader on the back end throughout the playoffs. There's no doubt about it in my mind. 

 

Call it whatever it is but they are different players and there's not necessarily anything wrong with the old boy's mentality...

 

A. Then why didn't it happen the 10 years he was on the team? They never even made the conference finals.

 

B. Canada is winning because of personnel, plain and simple. If they could field two team, the final game would likely be Canada A vs Canada B. They weren't so hot in the mid-1990s and that's when they fuddy-duddyed their way into rosters with Rob Zamuner and put Ray Bourque out for a penalty shot instead of the greatest player of all-time. 

[Commandant]

I'm not worried about Drouin walking out on the AHL team, it was all business. 

 

1) He was at 38 GP when he was sent down.  He needed to play 40 games to get a year of service time which is a big deal in terms of when you can be a free agent and when you can be eligible for arbitration under the CBA.

2) He was one of the most dangerous players on the lightning, he was getting minimal minutes but his pts/minute played was top 2 on the team. 

3) They sent him to the AHL. 

4) he reported, he played in the AHL, he was putting up points. They wouldn't recall him. 

 

At that point it became clear tampa was jerking him around so he wouldn't get the 2 games played and the service time.  Basically what tampa was doing to him just for contract reasons, when he clearly earned his place in the NHL, wasn't right.  So if he wanted to ask for a trade and go home to get them to stop jerking him around... I'm fine with that. 

[habs rule]

7 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I'm not worried about Drouin walking out on the AHL team, it was all business. 

 

1) He was at 38 GP when he was sent down.  He needed to play 40 games to get a year of service time which is a big deal in terms of when you can be a free agent and when you can be eligible for arbitration under the CBA.

2) He was one of the most dangerous players on the lightning, he was getting minimal minutes but his pts/minute played was top 2 on the team. 

3) They sent him to the AHL. 

4) he reported, he played in the AHL, he was putting up points. They wouldn't recall him. 

 

At that point it became clear tampa was jerking him around so he wouldn't get the 2 games played and the service time.  Basically what tampa was doing to him just for contract reasons, when he clearly earned his place in the NHL, wasn't right.  So if he wanted to ask for a trade and go home to get them to stop jerking him around... I'm fine with that. 

interesting I did not know "the rest of the story" It definitely gives some clarity.

 

[hab29RETIRED]

25 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I'm not worried about Drouin walking out on the AHL team, it was all business. 

 

1) He was at 38 GP when he was sent down.  He needed to play 40 games to get a year of service time which is a big deal in terms of when you can be a free agent and when you can be eligible for arbitration under the CBA.

2) He was one of the most dangerous players on the lightning, he was getting minimal minutes but his pts/minute played was top 2 on the team. 

3) They sent him to the AHL. 

4) he reported, he played in the AHL, he was putting up points. They wouldn't recall him. 

 

At that point it became clear tampa was jerking him around so he wouldn't get the 2 games played and the service time.  Basically what tampa was doing to him just for contract reasons, when he clearly earned his place in the NHL, wasn't right.  So if he wanted to ask for a trade and go home to get them to stop jerking him around... I'm fine with that. 

I'm not worried about it either.  Hell, i was saying we should trade for him back when he walked out on the team.  Although I was thinking more toward Beaulieu+.  But yzerman is proving to be an astute gm.  Great return for drouin.  Great contracts for stamkos, hedman and kucherov.  He had some mistakes like Callahan and coburn, but his hits outweigh his misses.

 

Anyway, drouin' walkout is the type of action that a guy like MB would usually be critical of.  I don't think he makes this deal if drouin isn't French.  Even if you look at the type of players drouin and galchenyuk are - they are eerily similar, with the exception that galchenyuk has played more at centre is bigger and older.  Drouin gets handed a contract right away, while galchenyuk had to go for a bridge and still hasn't received an offer as an RFA.  I also see a lot of similarities betweeen the criticism and praise for drouin and galchenyuk.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I'm not worried about it either.  Hell, i was saying we should trade for him back when he walked out on the team.  Although I was thinking more toward Beaulieu+.  But yzerman is proving to be an astute gm.  Great return for drouin.  Great contracts for stamkos, hedman and kucherov.  He had some mistakes like Callahan and coburn, but his hits outweigh his misses.

 

Anyway, drouin' walkout is the type of action that a guy like MB would usually be critical of.  I don't think he makes this deal if drouin isn't French.  Even if you look at the type of players drouin and galchenyuk are - they are eerily similar, with the exception that galchenyuk has played more at centre is bigger and older.  Drouin gets handed a contract right away, while galchenyuk had to go for a bridge and still hasn't received an offer as an RFA.  I also see a lot of similarities betweeen the criticism and praise for drouin and galchenyuk.

One has to think that Yzerman knew what he was doing in that Drouin was traded specifically to the Habs. I do think he probably got the best return he could have gotten when it comes to gaining a prospect who doesn't have to be protected for the draft.

 

As for Galchenyuk and Drouin, they probably are very similar. They were both drafted 3rd overall and separated only by a year. I hope we keep them both as we can have a decent top 6 with them both in the lineup. 

 

Finally @Lovett's Magnatones @hab29RETIRED I understand that Nashville had a good year this year and expected to hear about it but it's besides the point. Weber has his good qualities and it's fine to build a team around him.

 

I had more written but there's no need to start it up here. 

 

I'm also pretty sure Sidney Crosby and Jonathan Toews both belong to that prototypical old boys club and they've been doing just fine recently counting their rings.  

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

One thing for which I give both MB and Yzerman credit is having the stones to make a huge trade with a major divisional rival. I hate that logic, that you can't make such trades - it's a logic based wholly in PR considerations over the circus that could follow if the trade doesn't work out for one side. Cowardly. In a cap system and a parity-driven league, a GM is simply not doing his job if he declines a way to improve his team, period. So kudos to both of those guys on that score.

[dlbalr]

18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

One thing for which I give both MB and Yzerman credit is having the stones to make a huge trade with a major divisional rival. I hate that logic, that you can't make such trades - it's a logic based wholly in PR considerations over the circus that could follow if the trade doesn't work out for one side. Cowardly. In a cap system and a parity-driven league, a GM is simply not doing his job if he declines a way to improve his team, period. So kudos to both of those guys on that score.

 

I agree wholeheartedly.  If the best deal comes from a division rival, you're doing your team a disservice if you pass on it for a less favourable one from a non-division rival.

[Guest Stogey24]

Drouin rockin' #72

[dlbalr]

14 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

Drouin rockin' #72

 

Not necessarily for long.  He admitted yesterday that he didn't choose that number, they just gave him that for the press conference.  (In other words, a Galchenyuk trade or non-trade will ultimately decide this one.)

[dreegking]

On 6/15/2017 at 8:21 PM, Commandant said:

 

Tampa would have protected Drouin.  They weren't losing him in the draft.  They were going to leave Killorn unprotected.  Heck with Killorn's contract, they still might. 

I don't care about them. I am talking about the Habs.

[dreegking]

17 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Agreed.  When this deal went down, I had apprehensions about losing sergechev after trading Subban last year.  In a time when everyone is going with fast puck moving dmen, we are probably going to have the most flat footed D in the league, with nothing in the cupboard.  Maybe MB sees the penguins win a cup with a bottom barrel D core and don't think d matters.  We have Weber, markov on his last legs and petry - which is better than what the pens had, but than we don't have Malkin and Crosby to drive the play.

 

I think with price, and an offence with drouin, galchenyuk, maxpac, Gallagher, radulov, a return to form from Gallagher and progression from lekhonan, we have a pretty decent offence - IF galchenyuk plays centre.

 

 Some had pointed out that drouin can play centre and that gave me some hope that maybe galchenyuk and drouin can fill the top two centre roles.  However, after reading articles and hear ferraro, button and others say that drouin is a winger and would have the same issues at centre, and is lost in his own end, I can't see drouin playing centre - especially with julien as coach.  Drouin was also pretty much a winger in junior and the NHL, so I think it would be more of a stretch for him to be a centre than galchenyuk.

 

in my opinion this team needs two centres in the top 6 (and I think galchenyuk should be one of them).  If galchenyuk isn't one of them, we are screwed unless MB suddenly becomes Sam pollack and makes an unbelievable trade like galchenyuk, Beaulieu, emelin and a first for McKinnon and duschane and gets vegas to pick up pleks.

You think a 20/21 year old is fully developed?

[Commandant]

21 minutes ago, dreegking said:

I don't care about them. I am talking about the Habs.

 

And i previously explained... the habs now protect one of shaw/hudon instead of both 

 

Meh.

[hab29RETIRED]

39 minutes ago, dreegking said:

You think a 20/21 year old is fully developed?

When did I say he is fully developed??  What I said is that most analysts commenting on Drouin, don't see him as a centre.  I also shudder on how he will develop under current management based on their track record.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

24 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

When did I say he is fully developed??  What I said is that most analysts commenting on Drouin, don't see him as a centre.  I also shudder on how he will develop under current management based on their track record.

 

No doubt if he'd been internally developed, we'd have heard a lot about his deficiencies by now - how he should be Doug Jarvis instead of trying to be offensively creative - along with some shrug from Bergevin ('at some point it's up to the player'), strange benchings and moves all over the lineup, and a demand for a bridge deal rather than a cap-friendly long-term contract. They're locked in now, though, so maybe they will actually do what it takes to make it work, instead of blaming the player and jerking him around.

[habs rule]

I truly hope you are right and they have learned their lesson. but..............................

[Prime Minister Koivu]

We will have to wait and see if this is a good trade or not.

 

If this means that MB doesn't sign Radulov then it's a bust.

 

If this means that Drouin replaces Galchenyuk then it's a bust.

 

If we trade Galchenyuk for a defenseman then this trade is dumb. Sergachev would have had an impact with us next season.

 

If this is part of win now and we sign Radulov and keep Galchenuk then I think it is a good trade. A reasonable risk in loosing what might be a franchise defenseman for a legitimate chance to win right now with some good pieces.

[Guest Stogey24]

16 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

We will have to wait and see if this is a good trade or not.

 

If this means that MB doesn't sign Radulov then it's a bust.

 

If this means that Drouin replaces Galchenyuk then it's a bust.

 

If we trade Galchenyuk for a defenseman then this trade is dumb. Sergachev would have had an impact with us next season.

 

If this is part of win now and we sign Radulov and keep Galchenuk then I think it is a good trade. A reasonable risk in loosing what might be a franchise defenseman for a legitimate chance to win right now with some good pieces.

Losing a franchise defensemen to win now. That really worked out well for us the last year 

[DON]

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

We will have to wait and see if this is a good trade or not.

 

If this means that MB doesn't sign Radulov then it's a bust. If Radulov wants a long term, then this is a sweet plan 'B' and let some dumb GM pay $50m for Radulov.

 

If this means that Drouin replaces Galchenyuk then it's a bust. If Galchenyuk can be dealt for a top pairing d-man, then is a sweet back-up winger and if Galchenyuk not dealt, could be 2/3 of a strong line.

 

If we trade Galchenyuk for a defenseman then this trade is dumb. Sergachev would have had an impact with us next season. Wishful thinking. and highly unlikely.

 

If this is part of win now and we sign Radulov and keep Galchenuk then I think it is a good trade. A reasonable risk in loosing what might be a franchise defenseman for a legitimate chance to win right now with some good pieces. Might be a bust, or #4/5 d-man as well, is unknown and is just a elite junior player for now, while Drouin is a solid NHLer and was a 3rd pick for a good reason.

Can they really afford to pay up for Drouin, Galchenyuk and Radulov and potentially also add a centre & a top 4 d-man? Markov, Plekanec, Emelin likely being gone next year, could free up enough $ to also sign #31 to his huge deal, but maybe a good question for those who know about that cap stuff (commandant/dlbalr).