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Nov. 16, Coyotes vs Habs, 7:30 PM


dlbalr

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17 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Sergachev is playing 13 minutes a game, with heavy offensive zone starts, and plenty of time with Stamkos and Kucherov who are on pace for 140-150 points this year

 

So what, he is 19 friggin years old and has 1 point less than Hedman.

 

So your dismissing what a 19 year old kid has accomplished because of his limited ice time??!  Or because he plays with offensive players???

 

how many points did the oilers D get playing with macdavid  when he was on a tear last year???

 

Friedman and most analysts have said this kid is the real deal and not only will be in the Norris conversation in a few years, but fills a huge gap the lightning had in their lineup today. Two young dman I’d love to have to build around the most from dmen  that were traded young are Sergechev and Seth Jones.

 

you don’t trade young stud puck moving dman in today’s NHL

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The so what has to be taken in context when you compare his points to Drouin. 

 

He is a talented 19 year old prospect.  I think he will be a great player.  He is not a great player today. 

 

Drouin is our most dynamic forward and looks like a number 1 centre. 

 

 

You have to give to get, and yes a young stud puck moving D is valuable in today's NHL.... but so is a dynamic young stud centre. 

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25 minutes ago, Commandant said:

The so what has to be taken in context when you compare his points to Drouin. 

 

He is a talented 19 year old prospect.  I think he will be a great player.  He is not a great player today. 

 

Drouin is our most dynamic forward and looks like a number 1 centre. 

 

 

You have to give to get, and yes a young stud puck moving D is valuable in today's NHL.... but so is a dynamic young stud centre. 

 

The ultimate verdict on the trade depends on where these players max out.

 

If Drouin becomes an elite, PPG C and Sergy a #2 d-man or worse, then we win.

 

If Drouin becomes an elite, PPG C and Sergy a #1 d-man, then you can well argue it's an even trade.

 

If Drouin stabilizes as a 60-70 point C and Sergy a #1 d-man, then you can start to wonder.

 

If Drouin stabilizes at 60-70 points and Sergy becomes a Norris candidate/winner, one of the best D of his generation, then clearly we lose.

 

It's too soon to tell, really. What I do know is that Sergachev is one HELL of a lot more likely to have a Cup ring on his finger in the foreseeable future than is Drouin (just like Subban is, relative to Weber).

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The ultimate verdict on the trade depends on where these players max out.

 

If Drouin becomes an elite, PPG C and Sergy a #2 d-man or worse, then we win.

 

If Drouin becomes an elite, PPG C and Sergy a #1 d-man, then you can well argue it's an even trade.

 

If Drouin stabilizes as a 60-70 point C and Sergy a #1 d-man, then you can start to wonder.

 

If Drouin stabilizes at 60-70 points and Sergy becomes a Norris candidate/winner, one of the best D of his generation, then clearly we lose.

 

It's too soon to tell, really. What I do know is that Sergachev is one HELL of a lot more likely to have a Cup ring on his finger in the foreseeable future than is Drouin (just like Subban is, relative to Weber).

I don’t see any way how we win this trade- unless Drouin becomes a 80-90 point player and even than it may be an even trade if Sergechev becomes a 60 point dman.

 

 I fundamentally am of the opinion you can’t win a trade when you plug a hole by creating a bigger hole - and that’s the crux of the issue i have with every major deal made by MB.

 

On he other hand, nashville wanted duschane, but Sakic wanted one of their top 4 in return.  Poile knee thatbwhhile he’d fill a hole at centre, he’d be creating another one on D.  So he looked at another way to plug the hole and picked up another centre to fill the hole.  IMO, that is brilliant manoeuvring by a GM.  The only recent move that I think Poile could have improved on is trading Weber for Johansen (who knows - he may have tried), because I think Jones will be better than Subban and will be on a more affordable contract for a longer period.

 

MB on the other hand is always creating a bigger hole.  Brings in a solid Dman in Weber, creates a bigger hole by giving up the more skilled, younger puck moving dman.  Trades for Drouin and trades the best defensive prospect since Subban and McDonough (and the guy in the system he said made the Subban trade possible)? for a guy everyone know Yzerman was eventually going to move.  

 

We we have a GM who seems to be trying to move forward ruderless and has tied himself to a goalie who has never gone deep in the playoffs for the next 8 years, and actually seems to be putting a weaker team in front of Price each year.  This is not m any to be a shot at Price, but just part of my belief that goaltending alone will not win you a cup.  Hasek came close in buffalo, but Price is not as dominant as Hasek was (yes technically he is probably one of the best goalies ever- but he has never been able to single handily take his team deep in his he playoffs like hasek did).

 

 

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33 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t see any way how we win this trade- unless Drouin becomes a 80-90 point player and even than it may be an even trade if Sergechev becomes a 60 point dman.

 

 

Drouin puts up 90 points as what would be one of the best players in the league, but that trade might be even?

 

You don't see any way how we win this trade?

 

Umm, maybe Jonathan Drouin continues being the #1 center that he currently is and Sergachev is anything less than a #1 dman?

 

 

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13 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

Drouin puts up 90 points as what would be one of the best players in the league, but that trade might be even?

 

You don't see any way how we win this trade?

 

Umm, maybe Jonathan Drouin continues being the #1 center that he currently is and Sergachev is anything less than a #1 dman?

 

 

If Sergechev gets 60 points , he’s pretty much a #1 dman

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The same we way can assume  that Drouin will become an elite #1 centre in the NHL when he hasn’t been one yet.  Sergechev has progressed much more rapidly than Drouin did at the same age.

 

yes I know, it can be argued he was given more of an opportunity. But he has seized that opportunity and so far made good on it.

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I'm not sure about the anger about this hockey trade. Montreal needed a #1 centre. They got one. He isn't an elite #1, but he is a #1 from what I can see. He is also a student of the game. Sergachev has #1 D potential, and its looking like he could very well become that. Montreal's #1 denfense, #1 center, and goalie are not issues at the moment. It confuses me that most the posts and threads focus on these things. Mobile depth on defense is the main issue that I can see. Yes, keeping Sergachev may have helped that, but Rad would have still taken the Dallas money and tax advantage, and we would be screaming about the top 6.  even if Serg is a high end defenseman, I am still pretty happy with Drouin.

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It is simply too soon to judge the trade.

 

That said, I'm not sure that it suffices to say that if Drouin is a #1 C, the trade justifies itself. In 1995, we wanted an elite scoring FW and we got one in Mark Recchi. In return we gave up a #1 defenceman and a guy who became one of the most productive scorers of his era. So we got what we wanted but on a huge overpay. Bad trade. 

 

There are scenarios according to which we lose this trade, just like we've lost nearly every blockbuster deal we've made in the past 30 years. Time will tell.

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