sbhatt Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Honestly, that is a bizarre response to an elite goalscorer and classy player. He puts up good goal totals...nobody disputes this. But the erratic matter in which he does so, coupled with his incredibly soft game at all times, and his downright uselessness during his extended stretches between hot streaks...I find it impossible to excuse. I will concede that if he were a second line goalscorer on a powerhouse team like say, the Pens or the Hawks, where there are many players with incredible intensity, his shortcomings might not look so glaring and therefore it would be palatable. But what I have seen here in Montreal, I would have cashed his chip in (bundled with a pick or prospect) for a quality center long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 19 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Honestly, that is a bizarre response to an elite goalscorer and classy player. Our team does not score enough goals. Let's drive the player who leads the team in goals and points on a yearly basis out of town, and not even care what return we get... just so long as he's gone. Also lets wish him bodily harm and he gets injured. It is insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 News 18 minutes ago, sbhatt said: He puts up good goal totals...nobody disputes this. But the erratic matter in which he does so, coupled with his incredibly soft game at all times, and his downright uselessness during his extended stretches between hot streaks...I find it impossible to excuse. I will concede that if he were a second line goalscorer on a powerhouse team like say, the Pens or the Hawks, where there are many players with incredible intensity, his shortcomings might not look so glaring and therefore it would be palatable. But what I have seen here in Montreal, I would have cashed his chip in (bundled with a pick or prospect) for a quality center long ago. Newsflash: Almost all NHL goalscorers go through hot streaks and cold streaks. That is the nature of being an NHL goal scorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Commandant said: News Newsflash: Almost all NHL goalscorers go through hot streaks and cold streaks. That is the nature of being an NHL goal scorer. As sbhatt sort of concedes above, the problem isn't Patches. It's that he is an exceptionally good secondary piece - kinda like a Phil Kessel, except that he's a Good Boy - being asked to play the role of the team's defining player and all-around offensive leader. Since the Roy era, this has been the story of the Montreal Canadiens: putting good-not-great players in roles where they are expected to carry the team, but can't. Turgeon was a legitimate #1 C but too soft to be a real leader. Saku Koivu was a superstar calibre player until he blew out his knee, but thereafter he was merely a very good second-line C, put in a first-line C position and attacked by a good chunk of the fan-base when he proved to be no better than adequate. Patrice Brisebois was a good #3-4 d-man expected to be a #1; when he consequently struggled, a huge portion of Habs Nation demonized him forever. Alex Kovalev was a stunning talent but a headcase who would never be more than a secondary piece on an elite team; here, we tried to build a contender around him, and unsurprisingly failed spectacularly. Cammalleri was an excellent sniper, yet here he was positioned somehow as the best FW and disappointed in consequence. Now it's Pacioretty's turn. Since 1995, the Habs have developed exactly one position player (i.e., non-goalie) who had both the moxy and the skill-set to really carry a team on his back, and who rose to the fore in the clutch. We shipped him out the first chance we got, because the team is run by idiots. Now we're hoping Drouin can be The Guy. Maybe he can. Or maybe he will be another 'pretty good FW' that the team will foolishly treat as the centrepiece, dooming itself to failure in the process. Either the team needs a critical mass of skilled players who can all carry a share of the load, OR the team needs a truly elite, impact player with the personality profile that can not only stand the pressure, but positively embraces it (a Crosby or Matthews or Karlsson). Otherwise we are consigned to this fate forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 In what world is a perennial 35+ goal scorer/65-70 pt guy a second line winger? Yes there is the problem in not having a number 1 centre, but that doesn't mean wishing injury on patches, or wishing we trade him away no matter what the return. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I agree. I feel like a rare breed but I'm a Pacioretty defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, sbhatt said: Can't help it....the hate for 67 flows through me now, my turn to the dark side is complete. When he is out there sucking it up I find myself hoping someone lays a big hit on him, or gives him a punch in the head/face during a scrum, ect. I'm not sure if it's to make me feel better, or if there's maybe some dim hope that a jolt might actually wake him up and get him to find some anger/intensity. One of his 5 game hot streaks is going to do nothing to change that either, because I know full well that he will go back to being a total bum for as long or longer a stretch of games on the other side of that. I just want him traded so I never have to see his act again. Between now and that trade happening, for God's sake will somebody in that organization please strip him of the C and put it on somebody who plays hard every night! #floatingcaptain #notmycaptain Oh well, I have more pitty for him than hate. He is one of my favourites; and like Koivu, I think he is stuck being captain of a bad CH team. I do not think anyone on the roster could do a better job at being captain. I also think, like Galchenyuk, that because he is playing a role he is not good at (laying hits and forechecking checking) he will look "bad" despite giving it his best effort. There is no way he can win Edited November 22, 2017 by alfredoh2009 Dam iPhone autocorrect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: As sbhatt sort of concedes above, the problem isn't Patches. It's that he is an exceptionally good secondary piece - kinda like a Phil Kessel, except that he's a Good Boy - being asked to play the role of the team's defining player and all-around offensive leader. Since the Roy era, this has been the story of the Montreal Canadiens: putting good-not-great players in roles where they are expected to carry the team, but can't. Turgeon was a legitimate #1 C but too soft to be a real leader. Saku Koivu was a superstar calibre player until he blew out his knee, but thereafter he was merely a very good second-line C, put in a first-line C position and attacked by a good chunk of the fan-base when he proved to be no better than adequate. Patrice Brisebois was a good #3-4 d-man expected to be a #1; when he consequently struggled, a huge portion of Habs Nation demonized him forever. Alex Kovalev was a stunning talent but a headcase who would never be more than a secondary piece on an elite team; here, we tried to build a contender around him, and unsurprisingly failed spectacularly. Cammalleri was an excellent sniper, yet here he was positioned somehow as the best FW and disappointed in consequence. Now it's Pacioretty's turn. Since 1995, the Habs have developed exactly one position player (i.e., non-goalie) who had both the moxy and the skill-set to really carry a team on his back, and who rose to the fore in the clutch. We shipped him out the first chance we got, because the team is run by idiots. Now we're hoping Drouin can be The Guy. Maybe he can. Or maybe he will be another 'pretty good FW' that the team will foolishly treat as the centrepiece, dooming itself to failure in the process. Either the team needs a critical mass of skilled players who can all carry a share of the load, OR the team needs a truly elite, impact player with the personality profile that can not only stand the pressure, but positively embraces it (a Crosby or Matthews or Karlsson). Otherwise we are consigned to this fate forever. For those claiming 'no matter what the return', I think I have made it clear on a few occasions that I want him gone as part of a package for a quality center. And yes CC, you hit on many of the points that contribute to my frustration with Max. The flaws get amplified when the team is this damn bad, and his natural facial expression/demeanor is one of nonchalance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 8 hours ago, DON said: Digging a nice hole, 27th place with all teams having games in hand but Coyotes. Only 6 teams to climb over to grab wildcard spot and something like 2.8% chance of making doing that. So, there is a chance...but getting slimmer every game. Don't look now, Arizona is on 3 game win streak. What is master plan Geoffery and Bergy? Stay the course? You would think the chances would be higher. Atantric division is garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 The chances are all based on an assumption that every team's current winning percentage is their chance of winning any subsequent game.... so they are skewed that way. If you assume a team is only as good as its current record then yes those are the percentages you get. Of course there are teams like St. Louis, who are no where near as good as their current record, and there are teams who are not as bad as their current record, so those percentages move a lot with just a couple of wins or losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 58 minutes ago, Commandant said: The chances are all based on an assumption that every team's current winning percentage is their chance of winning any subsequent game.... so they are skewed that way. If you assume a team is only as good as its current record then yes those are the percentages you get. Of course there are teams like St. Louis, who are no where near as good as their current record, and there are teams who are not as bad as their current record, so those percentages move a lot with just a couple of wins or losses. Yes is just a snapshot. But, given the pts needed to make the playoffs, Habs are in dire straits for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Just now, DON said: Yes is just a snapshot. But, given the pts needed to make the playoffs, Habs are in dire straits for sure. If they play the way they have, they won't make the playoffs. That seems obvious, and I don't need a site with a percentage to tell me that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 OMG P.K. Subban you beauty. Lol wrong thread wow I’m a dumbass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 16 hours ago, Commandant said: If they play the way they have, they won't make the playoffs. That seems obvious, and I don't need a site with a percentage to tell me that. And I am to give a rats ass what you think before posting anything, or you just trying to be rude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 27 minutes ago, DON said: And I am to give a rats ass what you think before posting anything, or you just trying to be rude? Its a message board. Im allowed to post my opinion. In fact thats kind of the point of the message board. You like a stat. I dont and explained why. Others are free to decide how much weight they put on it. If no one can have differing opinions than Brian might as well just close the site. You not understanding that and responding this way is what is actually being rude here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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