2018 Training Camp Thread

[hab29RETIRED]

15 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I only focus on the picks he made. It would be unfair to criticize him for things he had nothing to do with. The exception being Jarred Tinordi, who they gave up a 2nd to move up and select. I doubt that was Gainey doing it all on his own while Timmins screamed and threatened to quit if it happened. He wanted Tinordi and likely suggested it was better to select him than what was available with our first and second. 

I can see gainey wanting him since  Tinordi’s dad played for him.

 

Having said that i don’t like the big emphasis on NCAA path players.  We haven’t been burned yet, but unless you are getting a can’t miss elite player, I don’t like the risk of a guy who is Probably going to be in college for a years, being drafted, when he can essentially become a UFA if unsigned (like Wheeler).

[alfredoh2009]

19 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I only focus on the picks he made. It would be unfair to criticize him for things he had nothing to do with. The exception being Jarred Tinordi, who they gave up a 2nd to move up and select. I doubt that was Gainey doing it all on his own while Timmins screamed and threatened to quit if it happened. He wanted Tinordi and likely suggested it was better to select him than what was available with our first and second. 

I do not remmember Timmins ever behaving like that, and the two times I've seen him at the Ottawa airport has has seemed to be the reserved type... 

 

But you probably know him better to write that, or it would be just empty arguments to support your views 

[DON]

1 hour ago, Alpine said:

First to talk about our D Weber will be back. Petry played strong near the end of last season. Mete is moving the puck better this year Oullett can fire the puck. No way they finish bottom 3 if Price gets back to his old form. Domi brings that grit the team didn't have with Galchenyuk and Patches. Tatar has something to prove this year. Zero all-stars is correct but in 93 who was the all-star? How many all-stars did Vegas have last year? I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Be a seller at deadline and finish 31st place would be best, given current roster. Than trade away future assets to try and sneek into playoffs...no thanks.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

34 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I do not remmember Timmins ever behaving like that, and the two times I've seen him at the Ottawa airport has has seemed to be the reserved type... 

 

But you probably know him better to write that, or it would be just empty arguments to support your views 

 

I guess you missed the words "I doubt" when you were rushing to reply. And clearly he didn't quit. He was proud of the Tinordi pick.

[alfredoh2009]

58 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I guess you missed the words "I doubt" when you were rushing to reply. And clearly he didn't quit. He was proud of the Tinordi pick.

Ah! if only I hadn't lost my dam glasses during the tornados in Ottawa last weekend. 

 

Peace Machine 

[Richard09]

On 9/25/2018 at 10:02 PM, Commandant said:

 

You can't go by "drafted players on the roster" when Timmins has nothing to do with trading Subban, Pacioretty, McDonagh, Sergachev, etc.... Players he drafted were traded away, is that his issue?

If you look at the drafts and number of game players have played in the NHL, Timmins has one of the highest success rates.  Especially in the late round, a lot of players he has drafted have made it to the NHL and played for several seasons.  You cannot blame him for GMs trading his picks.

[Commandant]

18 minutes ago, Richard09 said:

If you look at the drafts and number of game players have played in the NHL, Timmins has one of the highest success rates.  Especially in the late round, a lot of players he has drafted have made it to the NHL and played for several seasons.  You cannot blame him for GMs trading his picks.

 

Agreed

 

This is a point i've brought up before.

 

There is no pleasing some though

 

Their thought process is that the team sucked last year so fire everyone without going deeper to see who is and isn't part of the problem

[Trizzak]

 

"Clause" wants KK to stay.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

1 hour ago, Richard09 said:

If you look at the drafts and number of game players have played in the NHL, Timmins has one of the highest success rates.  Especially in the late round, a lot of players he has drafted have made it to the NHL and played for several seasons.  You cannot blame him for GMs trading his picks.

 

Yeah, and a lot of those players sucked, were out of the league in their 20s, and wouldn't have cracked other rosters. 

 

Again, if you are trying to make this about the GMs trading second round picks away you are only arguing with yourself. Timmins actual picks between 2008 and 2014 have been extremely weak. 2003-2007 was strong with exception to 2006. 2015 on remains to be seen and could save some face for him but it doesn't change the fact he isn't irreplaceable. The last time he drafted a legitimate number one centre? Jason Spezza, who is now close to retirement.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I haven't watched training camp at all, but I'm noticing several mentions of a player i've tended to completely overlook in my calculations about this season. So: to what extent do we believe that Mike Reilly is a legitimate 'secret weapon' for this season? That is, a legitimate NHL LD who can eat significant minutes and make an impact, as, say, a top-4 guy? Is he basically what Schlemko was supposed to be? 

 

If he is a quality LD, that makes the Habs a bit less desperately reliant on Mete's coming through, which is not a magic bullet, but is significant to the state of our crazily weak left side on the blueline.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

Ive watched all 6 games in its entirety as well as 1 of them live 13 rows up (3 seats down from Chaput’s mother i might add)

 

-Reilly has had a great camp. I think his confidence handling the puck has been his biggest upside from last year. Nice crisp outlets and going the rush as well as carrying the play. Should be interesting 

 

[dlbalr]

38 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I haven't watched training camp at all, but I'm noticing several mentions of a player i've tended to completely overlook in my calculations about this season. So: to what extent do we believe that Mike Reilly is a legitimate 'secret weapon' for this season? That is, a legitimate NHL LD who can eat significant minutes and make an impact, as, say, a top-4 guy? Is he basically what Schlemko was supposed to be? 

 

If he is a quality LD, that makes the Habs a bit less desperately reliant on Mete's coming through, which is not a magic bullet, but is significant to the state of our crazily weak left side on the blueline.

 

I would say Reilly has played his way into a top-four role to start but probably isn't an ideal fit in that spot.  He had flashes like this in Minnesota as well that were usually followed up by really bad stretches which is why they ultimately gave up on him.  Right now, his aggression hasn't hurt the team defensively but it's only the preseason.  Once he gets burned on a few pinches, then we'll see how he reacts and that will likely tell us if he has indeed improved or is still more of a third pairing guy.

[DON]

I thought Schlemko has several smart plays and rushes yesterday.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

37 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

I would say Reilly has played his way into a top-four role to start but probably isn't an ideal fit in that spot.  He had flashes like this in Minnesota as well that were usually followed up by really bad stretches which is why they ultimately gave up on him.  Right now, his aggression hasn't hurt the team defensively but it's only the preseason.  Once he gets burned on a few pinches, then we'll see how he reacts and that will likely tell us if he has indeed improved or is still more of a third pairing guy.

 

That's good insight, thanks.

 

I must admit that, while it's nice to read all the optimism about training camp, I'm profoundly skeptical about anything that happens in preseason. People are excited that Kotkaniemi held his own against Auston Matthews. Great - except that Matthews was giving maybe 50% of his normal effort. Reilly is looking good, that's great, but as you point out, he has a wider pattern and we should relate his current performance to that. 

 

It looks as though Kotkaniemi will start the season in Montreal. OK, but let's remember, we did the same thing with Galy and a few years later people were arguing that it hurt his development. Carey Price came pretty close to being destroyed after he was brought up right away. And even if Mete seems to have been undamaged by the accelerated development, the fact remains that he evaporated last season after a few weeks of early success. 

 

On K-man, I think we should ask: if this team had any decent C at all, would he *really* be a candidate to stick with the big club? Or is this on the table because he looks better than all the other garbage? The latter is not a good reason to fast-track a kid IMHO.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I haven't watched training camp at all, but I'm noticing several mentions of a player i've tended to completely overlook in my calculations about this season. So: to what extent do we believe that Mike Reilly is a legitimate 'secret weapon' for this season? That is, a legitimate NHL LD who can eat significant minutes and make an impact, as, say, a top-4 guy? Is he basically what Schlemko was supposed to be? 

 

If he is a quality LD, that makes the Habs a bit less desperately reliant on Mete's coming through, which is not a magic bullet, but is significant to the state of our crazily weak left side on the blueline.

 

He's played like a top 4 in preseason. 

 

Is he a top-4 for 82 games?  I don't know. There is a bit of small sample size and the grind of a full season that is going to happen. 

 

However, given the state of our Left Defence, you have to start him on LD and see what happens.

 

Three years ago Reilly was a highly hyped prospect with an outstanding college career.  Could he be one of those guys who just needed a change in scenery after busting out in Minny.  Is he one of those defencemen who needs 300 games to hit his peak.  The old rule, that a defenceman doesn't hit his stride til he has 300 NHL games under his belt.  

 

It may or may not happen.  But with this team, its worth exploring. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

8 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

He's played like a top 4 in preseason. 

 

Is he a top-4 for 82 games?  I don't know. There is a bit of small sample size and the grind of a full season that is going to happen. 

 

However, given the state of our Left Defence, you have to start him on LD and see what happens.

 

Three years ago Reilly was a highly hyped prospect with an outstanding college career.  Could he be one of those guys who just needed a change in scenery after busting out in Minny.  Is he one of those defencemen who needs 300 games to hit his peak.  The old rule, that a defenceman doesn't hit his stride til he has 300 NHL games under his belt.  

 

It may or may not happen.  But with this team, its worth exploring. 

 

Yep, hard to fault that reasoning. Late bloomers happen, and he is past the 'development' stage, so throw him out there. With a LD comprised almost entirely of bottom-pairing guys, it can't hurt. The value of dlbalr's observation is that it warns us to temper our expectations.

[Commandant]

33 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep, hard to fault that reasoning. Late bloomers happen, and he is past the 'development' stage, so throw him out there. With a LD comprised almost entirely of bottom-pairing guys, it can't hurt. The value of dlbalr's observation is that it warns us to temper our expectations.

 

Oh I don't expect him to remain a top 4 all season... I just think that given the team is crap, and we are in a re-tool year, we have nothing to lose by this gamble. 

 

i think he's probably a third pairing guy with some offence, but he's young enough that its worth a shot, and he'd be a steal at what we gave up. 

[DON]

9 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Oh I don't expect him to remain a top 4 all season...

 

Schlemko seems likely be the next option as Petry's partner...if he isnt already slotted on 1st pairing, to open the season?

[Commandant]

23 minutes ago, DON said:

Schlemko seems likely be the next option as Petry's partner...if he isnt already slotted on 1st pairing, to open the season?

 

Alzner has been tried there too

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

46 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Alzner has been tried there too

 

Gawd.

[Richard09]

22 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Yeah, and a lot of those players sucked, were out of the league in their 20s, and wouldn't have cracked other rosters. 

,

Again, if you are trying to make this about the GMs trading second round picks away you are only arguing with yourself. Timmins actual picks between 2008 and 2014 have been extremely weak. 2003-2007 was strong with exception to 2006. 2015 on remains to be seen and could save some face for him but it doesn't change the fact he isn't irreplaceable. The last time he drafted a legitimate number one centre? Jason Spezza, who is now close to retirement.

Check how many picks they had between 2008 and 2014. There are many years where there was no first or 2nd or 3rd rounder. There are players like Kristo that never played with Montreal. Between 2008 and 2014 he did draft Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, de-la-Rose, Andrighetto, Scherbak, Sergachev were all drafted after 2007.

[DON]

10 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Gawd.

But, likely best spot for him for the 'tank' crowd.

[BCHabnut]

So was Alzner horrible in Washington? Or was last year an especially bad year and we can hope for some sort of improvement?  How can all of the Canadiens pro scouts get it that wrong? An overpayment at free agency is nothing new, but last year he played like a #6 defenseman. Can we hope for an improvement in his play and see him play as a #4 and belong there?

[DON]

36 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Or was last year an especially bad year and we can hope for some sort of improvement?  NO

Can we hope for an improvement in his play and see him play as a #4 NO

 

[Habopotamus]

2 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

So was Alzner horrible in Washington? Or was last year an especially bad year and we can hope for some sort of improvement?  How can all of the Canadiens pro scouts get it that wrong? An overpayment at free agency is nothing new, but last year he played like a #6 defenseman. Can we hope for an improvement in his play and see him play as a #4 and belong there?

He was a bottom pair guy for Washington near the end of his last season and into the playoffs. I'm pretty sure anyways.... Injuries may have been a factor in that though.