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Habs vs Blackhawks


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2 hours ago, titanfan said:

Finally, how many young players have we watched the Bergeron era destroy?  Galchenyuk anyone?   And now he is trying to do the same thing to KK.  Wow!

Not sure who Bergeron is, but that guy is trying to destroy Kotkaniemi? I hadnt heard that, what is he doing to Kotkaniemi?

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6 hours ago, DON said:

Not sure who Bergeron is, but that guy is trying to destroy Kotkaniemi? I hadnt heard that, what is he doing to Kotkaniemi?

He's a nasty guy who works as a waiter at Dunns Smoked Meat.  Used to be an NHL GM or something but couldn't find a decent centre for years so they finally put him out to pasture.

 

...spellcheck strikes again....   I fixed it.  Thanks

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1 hour ago, titanfan said:

He's a nasty guy who works as a waiter at Dunns Smoked Meat.  Used to be an NHL GM or something but couldn't find a decent centre for years so they finally put him out to pasture.

 

...spellcheck strikes again....   I fixed it.  Thanks

Just grinding your gears, but still wouldn't use 'destroy' to describe Kotkaniemi's icetime. Don't you think that is way overboard?

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On 2019-03-16 at 10:25 PM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It's a sign that he is becoming more injury prone - itself a symptom of age and, therefore, decline.

Totally disagree with this as well as previous comments about his error free play and first signs of decline etc.

 

A) rarely do D-man play error free. if they did games would finish 0-0 and head to PK's

B) Weber was not on the ice for either goal vs CHI

 

With that said, Weber has sat out an almost entire season/offseason/preseason and the 2 months to start the new season. He stepped up to play 25+ minutes (the hardest minutes i might add) all the while doing it with a 20 year old rookie in Mete (who has really stepped up i might also add). Just because he fractured a bone in his foot blocking a shot and tried playing through it before being put on the shelf and having surgery doesn't make him more prone to injury. if anything it makes him stupid for adding to the injury by playing on it.

 

PK Subban has now missed games in 2 straight seasons with back issues. That to me is more concerning than a broken foot.

Is Gallagher more prone to injury now because of 2 broken hands?

If you told me Shaw because of his history of concussions then ok!

Domi and his wrist?

Byron and his shoulders?

 

And again, Weber was not on the ice for either of the goals vs the Hawks and he and Mete played fine. Obviously outside of his mis-hap at the blue line creating the 2 on 0 (some thing i haven't seen happen before ;)) which didnt result in a goal luckily!

 

My criticism of Weber would be his inability to get pucks through consistently, no defensive secondary scoring help from the back end recently  and his zero contribution to an absolutely horrible PP. something that should be his forte!

 

injury prone, age, decline.... all rhetoric that continues to beat the drum and does this team no good !

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That’s all fair. But I stand by what I said. He is 33 with over a decade of brutally hard minutes behind him. I heard similar rebuttals when I raised concerns over Pleks having discernible dips in performance: don’t worry, he is Mr Reliable, etc.

 

What we we will probably see with Weber are stretches where he looks like his old great self, followed by more of these dips where he looks slow and off kilter. Everyone will continue making excuses for him during these latter periods, until finally they stop doing so and realize he’s no longer 27. Then we will settle into lower expectations for him. I predict that within two years he will no longer be a #1 d-man and may be better placed as a second pairing guy. Of course we have no replacement in the system, so some fans will no doubt play ostrich.

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17 hours ago, DON said:

Just grinding your gears, but still wouldn't use 'destroy' to describe Kotkaniemi's icetime. Don't you think that is way overboard?

Destroy is a little overboard.   But my point is, his management team have mismanaged so many players over the years and I don't want to see KK become another.

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1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

 

And again, Weber was not on the ice for either of the goals vs the Hawks and he and Mete played fine. Obviously outside of his mis-hap at the blue line creating the 2 on 0 (some thing i haven't seen happen before ;)) which didnt result in a goal luckily!

 

4

the thing that made the biggest impression on me from that play is how fast Weber got back on the play.  He fell and was completely out of position, but was all the way back to break up the play in front of his own net.   Didn't look old there at all.  Looked like a player that lost an edge.....  

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45 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

That’s all fair. But I stand by what I said. He is 33 with over a decade of brutally hard minutes behind him. I heard similar rebuttals when I raised concerns over Pleks having discernible dips in performance: don’t worry, he is Mr Reliable, etc.

 

What we we will probably see with Weber are stretches where he looks like his old great self, followed by more of these dips where he looks slow and off kilter. Everyone will continue making excuses for him during these latter periods, until finally they stop doing so and realize he’s no longer 27. Then we will settle into lower expectations for him. I predict that within two years he will no longer be a #1 d-man and may be better placed as a second pairing guy. Of course we have no replacement in the system, so some fans will no doubt play ostrich.

your describing slumps over an 82 game season of all players not named kucherov, crosby mcdavid etc.

 

Of course in 2 years when he's 35 he'll no longer be 27. But, this particular players game is NOT built on speed and agility as an example. Players who rely on these attributes most are the ones who experience a decline first as long as injury doesn't play a role. (injuries occur regardless of age).

I'll use PK Subban as an example for fun...I think his best attribute is his agility. Forget his shot and stick-handling for a second. He's not the fastest player by any means and he's not slow either. He is though quick and agile. When he loses these characteristics to his game, we will see his decline. of course unless he changes the way he plays.

Weber's game has never been  built around speed and agility. He's not slow ( watch his horse race LOL) and he's definitely not agile. Weber game in particular is built on size, strength vision. he plays that cerebral game and is tough as nails defensively. he has good vision and anticipation on the ice rarely being out of position to make a play. As long as injury doesn't play a role, i see him having a very long career then some might sugegst. Markov after all with 2 ACL's was still a beast at almost 40 playing +24 plus minutes on the top pair for the same reasons minus the physicality. Chara is a prime example of how i see Weber at the same age.

 

as for plex...

plex's play supported what you were saying. and his age was why MB only gave him a 2 year deal. coming off back to back 55+ point seasons. That was a very reasonable 2 year 6million deal. he probably should of could of got 3/4 years on that deal. nobody could of predicted he would put up less then 30 points in his following 2 seasons. i would love to see a post predicting that prior.

 

i dont think weber is in any way comparable to plex. and i dont even think Weber has had a bad season thus far considering the adversity hes faced.

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50 minutes ago, titanfan said:

 his management team have mismanaged so many players over the years?

Such as?

And has it been more or less than average for NHL teams?

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I expressed serious concern over Pleks before he cratered. And it had less to do with cap hit than with the problem that we had no organizational plan for succeeding him. Just like we have no obvious plan for succeeding Weber.

 

I like the Markov parallel. After 2013 Markov was no longer a legit #1. Fortunately we had Subban coming up to take the load off, and he could sort of ease into his role as a #2-3 guy. 

 

What I’m saying should not be controversial, really: a d-man going on 34 is entering his decline. No duh! And yet people have this mystical belief in Weber’s exemption from the normal laws of aging. Again: I really think I’m right about this, and that no amount of denial or wishful thinking will make the reality of imminent decline disappear.

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1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

we agree on alot... i just dont think the sky is falling with Weber anytime in the near future...

(your not in Subban fanclub obviously:P)

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1 hour ago, DON said:

(your not in Subban fanclub obviously:P)

I love PK Subban... his flare for the dramatic and constant enthusiasm is exactly the elements missing on this team. Clearly, his agility and puck moving would be welcome as well. I think this team would of been far better off with both Pk Subban and Shea Weber obviously. But sideways is always what it is sideways.

 

If I have any complaints about PK it would be that he thought he was bigger then the team and NO player should be bigger then the team. Now im not saying he didnt LOVE Montreal as i Know he did... In fact i think he loved the habs more then anyone to wear this sweater in a long time....

And, If I could change one thing it would be him using the Canadiens platform (arguably the most popular team in the sport, with the largest fanbase, richest history etc) to push his personal brand. Wearing his own "PK76 with silhoutte emblem" at practice and in interviews and scrums etc. The day he announced his commitment to help raise 10 million for the hospital and did so without the Habs partnership and without any support from the team or teammates (who knew nothing of it the story goes) was his down fall and ultimate demise in Montreal I believe. This and and this alone... oh well the past is the past!

 

With that said, What i wont do is support claims that Weber is starting his decline at 33. Obviously that decline will come, it comes for everyone. I just think Weber will be able to play at a high level (again barring injury) for many years because of his style. He's stayed relatively healthy his whole career outside of LY and I wouldnt doubt our captain will still be playing a significant role and logging 20+ into his late 30's.. not one bit.

 

 

for old times sake...

 

 

 

 

 

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Just for the record, I didn't say Weber won't be able to "play at a high level for many years to come." What I'm saying is that he has begun, or is about to begin, his decline from being a #1 defenceman, probably to becoming a #2-3. PK Subban, God love him, is irrelevant to that discussion.

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Anyone who has watched this team this season can see something very clearly. 

 

Weber was dominant defensively in December and January. 

 

Weber has been struggling defensively for the better part of a month now. 

 

 

That much is clear and I don't think its even debateable. 

 

We can go through reasons... is it age? is he playing hurt? is he out of gas as he was on adrenaline when he first came back but is now slowing down as a year without playing has caught up to him?  

Thats fine, and each reason could lead to a different outlook for Weber next year and going forward but its undeniable that his play has tailed off and that his mobility has been an issue in recent weeks

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