PMAC Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 We could still get Gardiner. It never hurts to to have a fallback position when negotiating. Ray Ferraro and others I respect think Chariot is underrated. I would love Gardiner at a 5 year term but think we would be better off—in the long term— passing on him if the price is 7 x 7. I think he is holding out for 7 years and that is the real reason that he is not signed yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metallica Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 26 minutes ago, PMAC said: We could still get Gardiner. It never hurts to to have a fallback position when negotiating. Ray Ferraro and others I respect think Chariot is underrated. I would love Gardiner at a 5 year term but think we would be better off—in the long term— passing on him if the price is 7 x 7. I think he is holding out for 7 years and that is the real reason that he is not signed yet. 7 years at 7mil for a guy who could have a back problem seems over payment. If we're going to over pay i would rather do it in a trade for gostisbehere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Commandant thinks it's five-plus years, not seven. Not clear at what price. But if he's not healthy the AAV becomes irrelevant anyway, hence the medical checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 The bigger fear is not the LTIR. Its that he's healthy enough to play but his back injury makes him far less effective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 My understanding is that the LTIR impact on the cap is also not good. Yes, you can exceed the cap by the amount of the LTIR salaries, but then you get penalized by the amount of any performance penalties (for the entire team), and those are reduced from next year's cap. Or have I misunderstood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 It's tough to know, since much of what we're going by is speculation. For my part, I was 100% willing to go all-in on Karlsson (when it looked like he might be UFA) because the rewards of his A-game are so huge that they made it worth the risk. Gardiner is not a game-changer like Karlsson, and so the risk-reward calculation is harder. We *have* seen UFAs signing for rather less onerous contracts than conventional wisdom suggested, e.g., Duchene. If Gardiner turns out to be one of these, then that will be great for whichever team picks him up. My wider point, though, is that the Habs need a more fundamental upgrade on D than Ben Chiarot. That could come from Gardiner, or it could come from somewhere else. Most likely, it will not happen at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, tomh009 said: My understanding is that the LTIR impact on the cap is also not good. Yes, you can exceed the cap by the amount of the LTIR salaries, but then you get penalized by the amount of any performance penalties (for the entire team), and those are reduced from next year's cap. Or have I misunderstood? Thats also true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 i was thinking... Cant believe MB tried to stick it to Dudley like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 One thing about this offer: maybe it increases the chances that Aho signs with us in 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Peter Puck said: One thing about this offer: maybe it increases the chances that Aho signs with us in 5 years. Very doubtful IMHO. It's like when people hoped Crosby would sign witj us because he grew up a Habs fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV-G Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I guess our discussion on this thread is probably going start to wind down but I'd like to add this. I was listening to a Toronto sports radio show earlier today, I can't remember who made this comment, but the guest on the show was asked about the possibility of an offer sheet to Mitch Marner by some rival team. This is what the guest said at one point about offer sheets. He said, Montreal did it exactly the way it's supposed to be done. They picked a player they really wanted, on a team that was vulnerable, with a reputation for not wanting to spend a lot, and Montreal structured the deal exactly the way it's intended to work. They heard that Carolin'a last offer was $7.5 million, so they offered a million above that per year and then heavily front loaded it hoping that Carolina might balk at having to give up that much money over the next 12 months. Montreal didn't set the compensation, that was already in place, but he said Montreal intentionally kept the offer within their own internal cap so that Aho wouldn't be making more than Carey Price and in the event Carolina didn't match Aho's contract wouldn't handcuff them and put them in cap trouble a year or two down the road. He said even though Carolina matched, he said Montreal's offer was well planned and was perfectly set up so that it suited them and the player perfectly. Bergevin has taken some heat and criticism, but from people whose agenda isn't just to bash Montreal, such as some commentators and players, I have heard nothing but praise for Bergevin's attempt. My final thoughts on this is that I think he did very well and if Carolina didn't match we'd all be singing his praises. It was a good move and might possibly change the future dealings of teams regarding UFA's. For me, I think he's done a very good job and that's a turnaround from what I thought and wrote a little over a year ago. We still have the rest of the summer to go, and his biggest trade last year was late in the summer, so let's wait and see what he does! We know, without a doubt, that his goal is not just to look good, but to make our team better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Peter Puck said: One thing about this offer: maybe it increases the chances that Aho signs with us in 5 years. Let's say that it may be enough that he will at least give the Habs serious consideration at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Very doubtful IMHO. It's like when people hoped Crosby would sign witj us because he grew up a Habs fan. I don't see any way in which this doesn't improve our standing with Aho. For one thing it creates a rift (possibly a small one possible larger) between Aho and Carolina's management. It also guarantees that Aho will be a UFA in 5 years. Of course, Aho may not sign here but there is just no way that his attitude toward the Habs hasn't improved because of the offer sheet. This has nothing to do with Crosby nor fans guesses about his intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Peter Puck said: I don't see any way in which this doesn't improve our standing with Aho. For one thing it creates a rift (possibly a small one possible larger) between Aho and Carolina's management. It also guarantees that Aho will be a UFA in 5 years. Of course, Aho may not sign here but there is just no way that his attitude toward the Habs hasn't improved because of the offer sheet. This has nothing to do with Crosby nor fans guesses about his intentions. I was drawing an analogy, not implying some sort of correlation. Five years is an eternity. I serious doubt Aho will give the summer of 2019 much priority when he is making the most important decision of his professional career in 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Ya... but by then we will be 2 time champions and the decision will be easy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Word is that Montreal sent an offer sheet for Brayden Point and he turned it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said: Word is that Montreal sent an offer sheet for Brayden Point and he turned it down. I'm sure he wanted more than 8.4 mil a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said: Word is that Montreal sent an offer sheet for Brayden Point and he turned it down. Lebrun has been saying this all week. Last week, Friday, They sat down with Points agent to do an offer sheet and he told them that they had a better shot with Aho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Gerry Johansson ... so it sounds like they were initially planning to target Point but Johansson convinced them to offer to Aho instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metallica Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Personality I think Aho's agent played Bergevin real bad. Aho's agent wanted a 5 year deal so his client can hit UFA status at a good age, Carolina didn't want that which was why they couldn't come to an agreement. So his agent was smart and used the offer sheet to get a great deal for Aho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, Metallica said: Personality I think Aho's agent played Bergevin real bad. Aho's agent wanted a 5 year deal so his client can hit UFA status at a good age, Carolina didn't want that which was why they couldn't come to an agreement. So his agent was smart and used the offer sheet to get a great deal for Aho. This is exactly what the Hurricanes have argued. It's quite possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: This is exactly what the Hurricanes have argued. It's quite possible. Of course everyone is in this for themselves, I would expect nothing less. Aho got the contract he wanted—but it could have been in either Montreal or Carolina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I'm sure he wanted more than 8.4 mil a year Was that the offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Metallica said: So his agent was smart and used the offer sheet to get a great deal for Aho. What else would they be going for? A nice front loaded contract...I think some other agents also might like some other GMs to put out more offer sheets on their clients, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metallica Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, DON said: What else would they be going for? A huge front loaded contract...I think some other agents also might like some other GMs to put out more offer sheets on their clients, don't you? If you're going to do a offer sheet you're going to have to over pay for that player to get the team not to match. In the Aho case Carolina match because it was worth it to them. 1 1st, 1 2nd , and 1 3rd draft pick is clearly north worth losing Aho. You could get more in a trade for him. I think if Montreal went 9.5mil *7 and front loaded the first 3 years ,Carolina would of never matched it and Aho would be a Hab right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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