GDT Game #9 Habs@Wild 5:00 EST October 20 2019

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

I dont see them moving Danault in any move at all. Especially with a guy like CJ running the team.

He's his Bergeron 2.0

 

I could 100 % see a young D going the other way though in a deal. 

I just dont think a deal is coming unless it's a cheap deadline deal 

[JoeLassister]

1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I dont see them moving Danault in any move at all. Especially with a guy like CJ running the team.

He's his Bergeron 2.0

 

I could 100 % see a young D going the other way though in a deal. 

I just dont think a deal is coming unless it's a cheap deadline deal 

Maybe more his Bergeron 0.5 though...

[xXx..CK..xXx]

It’s not that I see them moving Danault but he would be able to land us a solid defenseman in return. I also don’t like him as a first line center. I can see the argument that we create a void while filling a void by trading our first line center but I once again do not see him as a top line center. Where do other GMs rate him?
 

Offensively, Danault would have ranked 53rd amongst centers last year when it comes to points. Domi consistently finds himself amongst the top 30. We have a first line center in him. Julien using Danault as a Bergeron 0.5 doesn’t instil confidence in me because while Bergeron is capable of producing 80 points, Danault can produce 50. 
 

We can all love Danault because he does all the right things, and I’m sure most of us do. But while I agree that it’s probably not even in the realm of thought amongst most people who are affiliated with the organization in any way, I would consider the thought. Danault may have value that’s higher than he is actually worth and I would take advantage of Danault’s value being high.

 

Put it this way when it comes to our first lines and/or players who people have proposed to speed up the “retool”...

 

Everyone has their differences in opinion but when it comes to our top 6, I think Price, Weber and Gallagher are all fully worthy of their positions and Tatar, Danault, and Mete are more borderline. Pick your choice from them and we can expect a good return (salaries and remaining years on contracts aside). With contracts included, it pretty much takes Tatar out of the equation. 

[JoeLassister]

In a perfect world, Danault would be our 2nd or enven 3rd C, playing with  Lehkonen and Armia.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

In a perfect world, Danault would be our 2nd or enven 3rd C, playing with  Lehkonen and Armia.

 

Danault is our 2nd line centre.

 

Dont confuse minutes played with who is the first line.

 

He is playing PK minutes, he is playing defensive zone starts, he is playing against the other teams top lines. His usage is that of a top defensive centre.  He gets a ton of minutes cause obviously the other teams top line will get a lot.  Plus he plays both pp and pk.

 

Domi is put in the more offensive situations 5v5.  The better matchups.  The better zone starts.  His usage is that of a top offensive centre.  He gets pp time.  He doesnt kill penalties and that is where danault passes him in minutes played.

 

Playing the most minutes doesnt mean hes being relied upon as our top offensive option.

 

There are many ways of using your players.  We dont need to think in rigid first line, second line, third line concepts.  When you have a centre who got over 70 points last year.. and plays the usage he does... thats what you call the top offensive centre.  Danaults usage was the top defensive centre on the team.  

 

This teams 5v5 production was outstanding last season.  It was the PP that let us down.  With that.. fixing the pp was the question mark of the offseason... not getting a better #1 than danault, cause danault wasnt the number one.

 

This season we are scoring nearly 4 goals a game... 34 in 9... the centres are again not the issue.

 

[Habsfan89]

On 10/23/2019 at 1:29 PM, Commandant said:

I don't see this team moving Danault.  He's necessary. 

 

Domi is not good enough in his own zone to go against other team's top lines.   His offensive contributions are that of a first liner though. 

 

KK is very good defensively in his matchups, but he's 19 years old and in his second year.  He may eventually become an elite two way centre, but he's not there yet. 

 

Danault provides ~50 points of offence and gets selke votes for his defensive contributions.  He's absolutely necessary on this current squad to play that role.  As much as Plekanec was necessary from 2008-2017 or so to play that same role. 

 

You can't look at his offensive numbers.  His role is to be the #1 C defensively and #2 C offensively....  And he's excelled in that role. 

It depends on who we get back in a trade, that player could do all the things Danault does.  If we are getting back a top LD does the things Danault does its a plus since it fills a need.

 

For instance Danault + Byron in a trade could net us a really good top LD.

[JoeLassister]

2 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

It depends on who we get back in a trade, that player could do all the things Danault does.  If we are getting back a top LD does the things Danault does its a plus since it fills a need.

 

For instance Danault + Byron in a trade could net us a really good top LD.

Who shadows McDavid while your brand new LD is busy with Draisaitl ?

[xXx..CK..xXx]

@JoeLassister

“In a perfect world, Danault would be our 2nd or enven 3rd C, playing with  Lehkonen and Armia.”

 

That’s the issue. It’s an odd thought to say that we should trade someone simply because he’s playing out of position. It’s not really his fault, and technically we could just call the Domi line our first line and the Danault’s line our second line but then we could go into configurations of lines and who they are playing with and the talk would lead to the coaching staff. 
 

Gallagher is a legitimate first line winger at this point and I would prefer him and Tatar to play with a number one caliber center. Truthfully, there is no perfect model though because if we were the Dallas Stars, our first line would be:

 

Drouin-Domi-Gallagher (Benn-Seguin-Pavelski)

 

and the Stars are doing terribly this year. 

The modern NHL has teams rolling four lines more and so I think it can vary from team to team where you’ll find a player. On one team, Eric Staal or Philip Danault are second line or third line centers, on another team they’re your first line center. It’s not even only about depth.  In addition, On some nights your “third line” could be your offensive catalyst and your “first line” your shut down line. These are things that happened less often two decades ago. 
 

My mindset, however, is a combination of:

 

1) I’d rather see Danault play his defensive role on another line.

 

2) Because Danault has been our first line center and is really a 2nd or 3rd line caliber Center, his perceived value may be higher than it should be

 

If my thought process is wrong on the second point and other GMs view him like I do and his value isn’t that high, you don’t trade him.

[Habsfan89]

1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

Who shadows McDavid while your brand new LD is busy with Draisaitl ?

Yeah like Danault is the only guy that can do that . Like I said it all comes down to who we get back. 

[Habsfan89]

27 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

@JoeLassister

“In a perfect world, Danault would be our 2nd or enven 3rd C, playing with  Lehkonen and Armia.”

 

That’s the issue. It’s an odd thought to say that we should trade someone simply because he’s playing out of position. It’s not really his fault, and technically we could just call the Domi line our first line and the Danault’s line our second line but then we could go into configurations of lines and who they are playing with and the talk would lead to the coaching staff. 
 

Gallagher is a legitimate first line winger at this point and I would prefer him and Tatar to play with a number one caliber center. Truthfully, there is no perfect model though because if we were the Dallas Stars, our first line would be:

 

Drouin-Domi-Gallagher (Benn-Seguin-Pavelski)

 

and the Stars are doing terribly this year. 

The modern NHL has teams rolling four lines more and so I think it can vary from team to team where you’ll find a player. On one team, Eric Staal or Philip Danault are second line or third line centers, on another team they’re your first line center. It’s not even only about depth.  In addition, On some nights your “third line” could be your offensive catalyst and your “first line” your shut down line. These are things that happened less often two decades ago. 
 

My mindset, however, is a combination of:

 

1) I’d rather see Danault play his defensive role on another line.

 

2) Because Danault has been our first line center and is really a 2nd or 3rd line caliber Center, his perceived value may be higher than it should be

 

If my thought process is wrong on the second point and other GMs view him like I do and his value isn’t that high, you don’t trade him.

You don't trade him because he's playing out of position. You trade him because we now have depth at center and we have a big hole on LD.  Kotkaniemi  or Poehling could be that two way guy you use like you would Danault. 

I feel theirs more upside to Poehling and Suzuki so I am keeping the both of them.

Domi has more offense so I am keeping him over danault. so if the price for a top LD is danault I am doing the trade. 

 

In 2-3 years centers should be 

Domi 

Kotkaniemi 

Suzuki 

Poehling 

 

Which could be pretty damn good.

[alfredoh2009]

10 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

You don't trade him because he's playing out of position. You trade him because we now have depth at center and we have a big hole on LD.  Kotkaniemi  or Poehling could be that two way guy you use like you would Danault. 

I feel theirs more upside to Poehling and Suzuki so I am keeping the both of them.

Domi has more offense so I am keeping him over danault. so if the price for a top LD is danault I am doing the trade. 

 

In 2-3 years centers should be 

Domi 

Kotkaniemi 

Suzuki 

Poehling 

 

Which could be pretty damn good.

I would trade Tatar and put Domi on the wing instead, on Tatar's spot. That would be my first line until Kotkaniemi becomes a 1st line center. Then:

 

Kotkaniemi

Danault

Poehling

Evans

 

[Habsfan89]

45 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I would trade Tatar and put Domi on the wing instead, on Tatar's spot. That would be my first line until Kotkaniemi becomes a 1st line center. Then:

 

Kotkaniemi

Danault

Poehling

Evans

 

Man its good to have this problem and depth at center for a change in hab land lol

[Commandant]

4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I would trade Tatar and put Domi on the wing instead, on Tatar's spot. That would be my first line until Kotkaniemi becomes a 1st line center. Then:

 

Kotkaniemi

Danault

Poehling

Evans

 

 

Domi is better at centre than on the wing. 

 

The Athletic did a nice piece about it. 

 

With his vision and passing skills the options available to him being in the middle of the ice just make him a more dynamic player. 

 

We finally have a centre who can score 70 points, why would we move him?  Let Evans become a winger.   Or in 2-3 years, if  Kotkaniemi can play against the other team's top line then at that point Danault can be moved. 

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Domi is better at centre than on the wing. 

 

The Athletic did a nice piece about it. 

 

With his vision and passing skills the options available to him being in the middle of the ice just make him a more dynamic player. 

 

We finally have a centre who can score 70 points, why would we move him?  Let Evans become a winger.   Or in 2-3 years, if  Kotkaniemi can play against the other team's top line then at that point Danault can be moved. 

 

 

Why, because Domi is not a first line center because of faceoffs and defensive zone coverage. But he is a top-6 scorer without a doubt. Kotkaniemi should be a top 6 center in 2-3 years (the timeline in the thread) and Danault will decline as Pleky did.

 

It's just a projection

[tomh009]

Danault is still 11 (!) years younger than Plekanec.

[Commandant]

Faceoff percentage barely matters.  Most overrated thing in hockey.

 

Id rather a guy with the vision and speed to play centre like domi and 45% on faceoffs, then a guy at 55% who doesnt have those

[alfredoh2009]

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

Faceoff percentage barely matters.  Most overrated thing in hockey.

 

Id rather a guy with the vision and speed to play centre like domi and 45% on faceoffs, then a guy at 55% who doesnt have those

I get it Domi at center vs Thompson at center. I agree about your view on the unimportance of FOs, but with regards to the CH's projection in 2-3 years for now: I much rather have a guy with great vision and good shot on the wing than a Lehkonen or Armia or Weal filler with good instincts an nothing to show for.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I get it Domi at center vs Thompson at center. I agree about your view on the unimportance of FOs, but with regards to the CH's projection in 2-3 years for now: I much rather have a guy with great vision and good shot on the wing than a Lehkonen or Armia or Weal filler with good instincts an nothing to show for.

 

The strength of the current team is being able to role four lines that are all dangerous. 

 

A group of 

 

Domi, KK, Poehling, Danault down the middle keeps that going.   I don't care which one you label as 2, 3, 4, it could change game to game, but the depth will overwhelm teams. 

 

Drouin will be in his prime. Gallagher is young enough he'll still be a very good winger in 2-3 years.  Suzuki should be a strong winger in 2-3 years. Caulfield looks like a future star.  Armia is young (26), has size, and has 5 goals and 6 points in 8 games this year.  He's more than filler.  Other prospects like Ylonen, McShane, Fonstad, Evans, could be wingers to fill things out.  Lehkonen is still young too.  Thats enough wingers.  Finding Wingers is also MUCH, MUCH, MUCH easier than finding centres as we have seen for 20 years.  

 

I'm not worried at all about the forwards in 2-3 years.  
 

Besides all that, if you move Domi to the wing, you aren't getting the best out of him.  Its clear from the video and stats analysis at the athletic, that he is better at centre.  He's not the same player on the wing. 

 

And this team scores lots of goals.  They do it with depth.  They did it last year too (they were great 5v5).  Now that the PP is fixed, the team can score enough goals. 

 

Gotta tighten up the back.  That has to be the focus, not forward right now.

 

Weber and Petry are not getting younger.  You'll be counting on Mete, Kulak, Romanov, Brook, Fleury, Struble, Fairbrother, Harris, Norlinder, etc... and I hope that some top 4 guys come out of those youngsters but the forward group looks better than the defence group.