Can we get Gagné?

[alexstream]

Originally posted by giupietrantonio

hey guys why dont we all stop trying to get players that wont necessarly help out our team.....look at the ranger a couple of years back. I think with the team we have now we will be able to succeed and get a playoff birth once again.

cause we're not talking about any random player, we're talking about Olympic Winger Simon Gagné

:bow:

[koivu-11]

well i didnt real all what u guys posted cuz its long but.....phi does need a goalie and everyone knows that cuz they cant rely on eshe so my idea would be....trade carey price and second draft pick to phi for gange it would be great for mtl and phi and mtl if they need a goalie there good with theo for at least 8-10 years so they have alot of years to chose to draft a goalie so if mtl would get gange this would be the sexy lines:)

Zednik - Koivu - Kovalev

Gange - rebiero - ryder

Sundstrum - bonk - bluis

begin - higgins - dagenais

so i think thats a well fitted trade dont u think?

[simonus]

there is no reason to believe that theo will sign 2-3 more FA contracts with montreal.

Although I like Esche, PHI would want a goalie for now, price isnt ready for another 3 years minimum. You have no space in your lineup for AP or AK or Hossa (if he should merit one...)

[koivu-11]

theo, his career will end in mtl i dont see him moving anywere. but also price in 2-3 year he will be ready at least for back up well thats why mtl took him right now no ? so why cant phi take him and with forsberg and them high on the cap what much can phi do?

[simonus]

because phi wants a goalie now. Perhaps they'd be willing to take a backup level guy to stay under the cap, but they need someone to tend this year. You are correct that it would do them well to add a prospect to the system at some point to lower cap burden in the future.

Trading for price would rid them of a trade asset that they could use to get goal help now. In the eyes of PHI, Esche is their goaltender of the future. They want somebody to rely on while he gains consistency and acheives his potential.

[koivu-11]

i wonder if gainey reads these posts maybe he might see it and like try u never know but anyway if that doesnt work mtl can always get selanee but the prob is they wont touch the first line unless there are problems with it and selanee will be playing along side with reiero and ryder.

and if anything mtl can also trade rebiero and price juss for gange so then put bonk on second line and still get selanee maybe julien can pull some sik stuff with that and the season after maybe lecavalier will come so we got are second line center :hlogo:

[Zowpeb]

Please stop posting trade proposals because they are brutal.

1) Gagne is NOT worth Carey Price + a 2nd round pick. He's not even worth Carey Price straight up right now...

2) Gagne is NOT worth Ribeiro + Price that's just bloody INSANE. Yeah, let's trade a C who scores as many or more points then Gagne AND throw in one of the best young goalie prospects in the league...wow, great idea.

3) The Flyers HAVE to make a deal to move Gagne so nobody is going to offer them straight up value for him...the Flyers really have no leverage there. I'm guessing that they'll get a 2nd round pick if they just want to dump his salary. MAYBE they'll get a 1st rounder from some team that figures to finish well and would have a pick from 20-30.

4) The Flyers just dumped a much better player in Jeremy Roenick(big mouth but still a better player) for Future Considerations...enough said

5) Theodore will NOT be with the Habs for 8-10 more years...in fact, I'm guessing that we trade him in the final year of his contract. By which time both Danis and Price will be developing nicely...and I could see both being ready for the #1 role.

[alexstream]

Originally posted by Zowpeb

Please stop posting trade proposals because they are brutal.

1) Gagne is NOT worth Carey Price + a 2nd round pick.  He's not even worth Carey Price straight up right now...

2) Gagne is NOT worth Ribeiro + Price that's just bloody INSANE.  Yeah, let's trade a C who scores as many or more points then Gagne AND throw in one of the best young goalie prospects in the league...wow, great idea.

3) The Flyers HAVE to make a deal to move Gagne so nobody is going to offer them straight up value for him...the Flyers really have no leverage there.  I'm guessing that they'll get a 2nd round pick if they just want to dump his salary.  MAYBE they'll get a 1st rounder from some team that figures to finish well and would have a pick from 20-30.  

4) The Flyers just dumped a much better player in Jeremy Roenick(big mouth but still a better player) for Future Considerations...enough said

5) Theodore will NOT be with the Habs for 8-10 more years...in fact, I'm guessing that we trade him in the final year of his contract.  By which time both Danis and Price will be developing nicely...and I could see both being ready for the #1 role.

Some comments:

-You're totally right some trade proposal are outrageously bad... and some guys should know that they just look silly when they make those (no offense though)

-This is still beyond my mind that some people don't seem to understand HOW GOOD PRICE IS!!! could turn out to be the next frikkin Luongo!!! only mad mike would trade that. nuff said.

-I agree too with Theo being moved along the line...

WHERE I disagree is about Roenick... FUTURE CONSIDERATION DOESN'T necessarily MEAN CRAP... sometimes in a big move, you'll had future consideration, depending on whether or not the guy sign at the end of the season or not...

BUT in that case, it's not a thrown in pick... MAN philly added a 3rd rounder. The trade is completed so that Roenick can go to LA... but the DEAL IS NOT DONE. that is why it says future consideration. The kings have been said to be trying to trade Roenick to Phoenix (rds), now I don't know what happened with that... maybe it's not working out, but THEY ARE WAITING after something before knowing for sure what they will send to Philly and it will surely be more than a 2nd rounder. I might be wrong... but Fedoruk was had for a 2nd rounder.. so Roenick is surely worth a truckload of second rounders...

If you want a benchmark, use Pronger's trade and reduce the scale to Gagné... In other words, take maybe two players, one more proven than the other.. maybe like Plekanec and a big prospect to lure Clarke (e.g. Ferland lol) don't know what it could be... but I think that Clarke would be at inexpensive guys, I hope not at our best prospects ... I could let Plek, Hossa and or Hainsey go though.

[Edited on 2005/8/5 by alexstream]

[simonus]

as far as roenick's trade, i saw a pic of JR in a kings jersey on TSN's front page... id say thats pretty much done.

[alexstream]

Originally posted by simonus

as far as roenick's trade, i saw a pic of JR in a kings jersey on TSN's front page... id say thats pretty much done.

damn you got me wrong, the trade is DONE, but the "deal" (ie what philly receive) is postponed because of some reasons which we don't know (e.g. trying to re-trade Roenick?) so that we don't know yet what Philly will receive... but Roenick is definitly in a Kings Jersey right now, you can ever hear him tell you to buy tickets now on www.lakings.com (funny:D)

[Edited on 2005/8/5 by alexstream]

[simonus]

ok... sorry about the breakdown... as far as conditionality, I thought that was all about picks based on draft order and choice of named prospects at a later date.

[alexstream]

Originally posted by simonus

ok... sorry about the breakdown...  as far as conditionality, I thought that was all about picks based on draft order and choice of named prospects at a later date.

It makes sense, but is not always the case, sometimes the considerations have been players. (e.g. savage was traded to the blues and there were future considerations.. which ended being Savage returning back to phoenix...)

I could be wrong, but I think that it's not a mere pick... Roenick is worth his share of players or prospects or picks, but not only one conditional pick...

I think that's where you got caught

you all thought that future consideration meant conditional pick?

Anyways, if it was only a mere future consideration.. why would philly have to add a 3rd rounder???

[simonus]

i guess i knew that conditional could mean just about anything, but it usually seems to be picks and prospects :zzz:... i doubt phi would want too much in the way of roster players as they are trying to lower their salary obligations.

I assumed that the 3rd pick was to atone for not picking up part of JR's salary (which would apply to PHI's cap).

[ch_nl]

So who's the odd man out?

Sheldon Souray? No! The only All-Star defenceman.

Craig Rivet? No one want's him. He's to expensive.

Matheiu Dandenault? They just got him...

Francis Boullion? No. He's the perfect 7th.

Mark Streit? One-way deal. He'll have to clear waivers. No.

Andrei Markov? What? Will he stay in Russia?

Mike Komisarek? Trade?! Komisarek for Gagne?

Ron Hainsey? Trade?

[Fanpuck33_]

Are you crazy man? Trade Komisarek? He's the only young, stud D-man the team has. Trading him away would be the biggest mistake ever.

[Zowpeb]

I wouldn't trade Komisarek for Gagne either...bleh.

Don't get me wrong, I think Gagne is a fine player. But he's like most french players in the NHL...overrated by Habs fans/media. I know that it's hometown love and that's fair but when I start seeing lopsided deals involving blue chip prospects for a guy who is MAYBE a 55-60 point guy it really bugs me. Guys like Komisarek and Price are potentially game breaker players...something Gagne isn't, and never will be.

As for the comments on Roenick, when has "future considerations" in ANY sport turned out to be something of any real value? I realise it means there is some sort of conditional value to the pick(ie. so many points, contract extension, whatever means LA gives up more), BUT that really only means they might go from giving up a 3rd to a 2nd rounder...big whoop.

My real point on that is this: If Roenick is worth a 2-3rd round pick then Gagne is worth a 3-4 round pick. The Gagne deal will be relative to the Roenick deal.

I also realise that Roenick was moved to dump salary and everyone knew it so Clarke had no leverage to hold back from a deal. In NORMAL circumstances someone may give up more for guys like Roenick and Gagne...but not now with the Flyers needing to make cap room.

Clarke has potentially built a decent team on paper(I question their big slow D-men and lack of a good goalie myself) but he has proven to be BRUTAL at creating a market for his players. A good GM would not HAVE to "dump" players like Roenick and Gagne...they would create a market for them and start a bidding war to at least get more value. Clarke has ALWAYS been horrible at making trades...I really don't know how this guy has a job still.

[habsfan19]

Originally posted by Zowpeb

3) The Flyers HAVE to make a deal to move Gagne so nobody is going to offer them straight up value for him...the Flyers really have no leverage there.  I'm guessing that they'll get a 2nd round pick if they just want to dump his salary.  MAYBE they'll get a 1st rounder from some team that figures to finish well and would have a pick from 20-30.  

Agreed, he'll go for 1st round pick, the flyers pretty muched screwed themselves as far as he is concerned.

habsfan19

http://www.habsblog.com/

[GoHabs2002]

I am in the minority here, but I would like to see what Dags does in camp before writing him off. Before the lockout, he seemed very dedicated to improving his game. I mean, he was a 25 year old pro going to rookie camp, just so he could work out with the coaches. I liked that dedication.  

Actually, I want to give Dagenais a chance too...sure he's slow, only produces with Ribeiro, has skating troubles and disappeared in the playoffs..but he's big, has a willingness to improve himself, has a killer shot, knows how to score and he wants to play in montreal

Althoguh we shouldn't take guys just cuz they want to be in MTL, but Dagenais has talent its just rough. Let him come to training camp, let him play himself on the second line, if he fails send him down to Hamilton, but give the guy a chance.

He scored 18 in 54-odd games, if my memory serves me right, in his first "full" NHL season, with some refinement, we could have our big man we've always wanted..

We used to have a big guy that soem thought was expendable...and we got anoter smallish forward for him in '95 and look how he turned out.

That being said, getting Gagne would do amazing things for the club.

[Psycing]

It's just not going to happen... lol.

[shortcat1]

I don't remember if this is the same string or not but, at first, I swear I saw "Can we get Gange?"

I thought, why would we want a river in India? But then again, I couldn't see a trade factor there, just a Free Agent with only positives. This guy (a member of alexstream's greater family???) would likely accept a fluid contract situation.

To withstand the comings and goings of the tideflow from the NHL to the AHL wouldn't be of any concern.

If he was a success, great! If he Bombay'd out, it's water under the bridge and life flows on. Or...

was it just a spelling error. Hmmm.....

[alexstream]

Originally posted by shortcat1

a member of alexstream's greater family

What? do I sound like I'm from bombay?

[shortcat1]

hehehehe, of course not, sahib.

[PMAC]

I agree with FanPuck 33: give Dags a chance to show what he can do this season. Come on, obviously Gainey and Julien see something in him or he wouldn't still be on the roster.

[bebehabs]

hey hey~ the answer is NO coz Simon Gagné just signed a 1 year contract with Philadelphie for 2M$

[revvvrob]

it's PHILLY ... bobby (call me bob) clarke! ... he might have signed him to trade him. i don't think they will move him, but i doubt the signing should squash the story.