Habsrocket Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 With the Signings of Dandenault and Kovy in the past few days and the negotiations starting with Theo, Ryder, Koivu etc. What is the Habs Cap Dollar going to be? Would their be any transactions in order to bring down the team cap? Just wondering thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleu_blanc_rouge Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 me i still dont understand why would we hit the limit... all what we did is buyout breezer resigned kovy and dandenault (very minor contract..) look at the penguins, 5 UFA BIG ufa and they didnt hit the cap yet.. i dont get it, evn b4 signing kvy there was talks about the habs not being ale to fi too well under the limit, HOW COME???? we dont even hav any descent #1 or #2 d-man, we have ribeiro a #2 center (very low salrey) and dagenais a #2 RW.. how in the blue hell are we being tight in that salrey cap thing??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 When everything is done, the numbers I've been reading fall into the range of 36-37 million. I still find that kind of high. It doesn't leave much room for any manoeuvering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Originally posted by bleu_blanc_rougeme i still dont understand why would we hit the limit... all what we did is buyout breezer resigned kovy and dandenault (very minor contract..) look at the penguins, 5 UFA BIG ufa and they didnt hit the cap yet.. i dont get it, evn b4 signing kvy there was talks about the habs not being ale to fi too well under the limit, HOW COME???? we dont even hav any descent #1 or #2 d-man, we have ribeiro a #2 center (very low salrey) and dagenais a #2 RW.. how in the blue hell are we being tight in that salrey cap thing??? most of the pens are pretty young and have smaller contracts and/or are restricted. A lot of sub-million and two-way contracts in that organization. The habs have koivu, theo, zed, bonk, souray, markov and rivet looking to contract between 2 and 5 mil. Then you have players like sundstrom who are ~1mil guys. The pens came into the FA period with some cheap, promising rookies and lemieux and recchi. They are building an entire team, we are not. [Edited on 8/7/2005 by simonus] [Edited on 8/7/2005 by simonus] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Okay, once again I've swiped something I worked on at another forum and put it here since this is my home forum. Centers #11. Saku Koivu (Rfa) ($3.600.000) (Colin- doubtful, I think he's going to have to look a lot closer to the $3m mark in order to stay. He wants to play here, wants to finish his career here, by saying that he puts himself over a barrell. Money isn't an object so much with Koivu, he's proven that over and over, agreeing to qualifying offers when he knows he hasn't performed to snuff.) #71. Mike Ribeiro (Rfa) ($1.500.000) (Colin- he's going to ask for more and Gainey's going to counter with less than this figure. If anyone goes to arbitration it might be Ribs - and with his ego it might get messy. One season does not a star make, $1.2m for a one or two-year contract seems enough time to prove himself.) #14. Radek Bonk ($2.394.000) (Colin- a lot of money for a 3rd line centre. If I were Sax or Ribs, I'd make myself very pliable or I may find my position gone to Bonk and myself on the open market...) #22. Steve Begin ($0.608.000) (Colin- shame we can't renegociate this one. $500k is plenty.) #00. Tomas Plekanec (Rfa) ($0.500.000) (Colin- while this number is probably correct, look for Gainey to start at league minimum and see if he can't convince Pleks to prove himself.) Right Wingers #27. Alex Kovalev ($4.500.000) (Colin- too much for a player seemingly on the decline, but perhaps it was just a blip and he'll be worth every penny. Fingers crossed.) #73. Michael Ryder (Rfa)($1.500.000) (Colin- see Ribs. He's going to have to prove himself and probably a shorter-term contract is his ticket. $1m is where I'd start him and wouldn't consider much more.) #37. Niklas Sundstrom ($0.988.000) (Colin- in this new day and age, this is way too much for Invisible Man. $650k is what he deserves with what he brings to the table. #42. Alexander Perezhogin ($0.858.000) (Colin- probably correct, though if you hear rumours about a $700k offering, don't be shocked.) #26. Pierre Dagenais (Rfa)($0.700.000) (Colin- for someone who is going to spend one heckuva lot of time in the press box, this is ludicrous money. I know he scored goals, but he really does have to prove he's not a one hit wonder. When you consider his lack of skating, defence, grit...well anything other than goals, I'd offer him $500k, tell him take it or leave it, and pray he leaves it.) Left Wingers #20. Richard Zednik ($1.748.000) (Colin- actually a reasonable price for the returns you'll get.) #38. Jan Bulis (Rfa)($1.000.000) (Colin- as much as I like him and as much as he's underrated by a majority of Habs fans, he *is* a third line player who can fill in on the top two lines on occasion. Bottom two lines can't have players making much more than a million or the budget will be blown. $850k seems more reasonable.) #81. Marcel Hossa (Rfa)($0.500.000) (Colin- good call on the salary, but the Hossa camp will grumble. If he asks for more, invite him to use the door.) #88. Chris Higgins ($0.900.600) (Colin- in the new NHL that's a little much for someone who hasn't played a game, but from everything we've heard, hopefully he plays up to that potential.) Defensemans #44. Sheldon Souray ($2.128.000) (Colin- probably a fair price.) #79. Andrei Markov (Rfa)($1.600.000) (Colin- another seriously underrated player, in my opinion, and could very well be making $2.5m if there was more spotlight on him and he wasn't making waves about coming back. That said, I think the $1.8m range is probably more likely. Offer him much lower and Russia looks very good.) #52. Craig Rivet ($2.660.000) (Colin- overpaid, sure, but not by nearly as much as many might think. He's a mentor player - don't forget he got Markov to a point where the coaches played him #2 minutes on the team. Rivet is a solid steady guy. He should probably pocket about $1.8m) #00. Mathieu Dandeneault ($1.700.000) (Colin- hard to say here. On the one hand, he was low on the Wing depth charts to paying him this much might seem very costly. On the other hand, he was low on the *Wings* depth charts, and that might just mean he's much better on ours. I reserve judgement here.) #08. Mike Komisarek (Rfa)($0.700.000) (Colin- I'll be surprised if he isn't around the $1m mark, despite the fact he shouldn't be. The Habs want to make him the centrepiece of the defence here, and as such, they have to pamper him just a little. $700k seems to be lowballing him a little.) #51. Francis Bouillon ($0.600.000) (Colin- looks about right for someone who is going to look one heckuva lot better if the rules are applied as stringently as they are forecast to be.) #65. Ron Hainsey ($0.570.000) (Colin- is this what he's getting? Allow me to guffaw. The Ego is probably doing a slow burn at this price! On the other hand, I think he might even be overpaid. Anyone who goes back down that often does not have the right to make anywhere near $1m.) Goalies #60. Jose Theodore (Rfa)($4.500.000) (Colin- I know everyone thinks Gainey won't succumb to the Theo camp, but every fibre in me says there's going to be a lot of angst over this deal. If he signs for less than $5m I'd be surprised, nay shocked. I think it'll be *much* closer to the $6m mark.) #35. Cristobal Huet ($0.456.000) - Injured (Colin- good price for a backup.) The Montreal Canadiens: 23 Players / 23 Payroll: $35,663.400 (Colin- $36.15m ballpark. With good negociating - especially with Theo, you can drop that by perhaps $2m. With a lack of luck, you're up around the $37m mark. I suspect Gainey is looking around the $35 mark so he has wiggle room if needed.) Just my thoughts. Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Super article. I'm afraid that I'm not as adept at being able to 'give' out salaries like that nor being able to read the relative market value of different players but as a final figure, I concur. [Edited on 2005/8/7 by shortcat1] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombTHEice Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 You've forgotten Streit but I think that it won't make much of a change, as he'll get around 500k I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck7x Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Good review Colin, thanks. But I disagree about the Ribeiro comments. Sure he's cocky, but honestly from everything I've heard from Ribeiro he really loves playing for this team, and will probably be easy to sign, keep in mind that we ALREADY signed him to that 1,500,000 one year contract AFTER the 03-04 season (the last season, his breakout year), his one-year contract was wiped out because of the lockout. So why not after the lockout will he suddenly ask for more? hehe Ryder on the other hand is becoming very difficult to sign, we tried a few times pre-lockout but he (or his agent) rejected all our offers. I worry about him, he might be the one with the ego... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_ Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Originally posted by puck7xRyder on the other hand is becoming very difficult to sign, we tried a few times pre-lockout but he (or his agent) rejected all our offers. I worry about him, he might be the one with the ego... Are you sure about this? I heard he only got a qualifying offer that he rejected and Gainey didn't make him another offer since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 The math I just did estimating salaries for RFA based upon their last salary (http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=579) combined with signed palyers and who you might expect to start in Mtl places them in the 33-35 mill range. If its closer to 33 then Gainely has some room to add a player at some point in the year, or perhaps even another FA before training camp. Good work by BG to field a team and manage the cap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Ryder doesn't like Montreal - he's been a Toronto fan all his life and you know what they think of the Habs. Now that he has value he can hold Gainey over the coals until Gainey flinches. Sadly for Ryder, Ganiey is not the flinching type. If he doesn't sign, expect him to be dealt before the start of the season; at least he has value. And off by a mere $50k for Dags. I'm relatively happy with that. He'll probably platoon with kids all year long unless one of them really revs it up. I see another 50 games for the Dagmeister unless a kid puts him to shame. Which, of course, makes me somewhat queasy - that's one person on the ice who, when not with the puck in front of the opposition net, is nothing but a wasted pylon. Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Originally posted by Guy!Ryder doesn't like Montreal - he's been a Toronto fan all his life and you know what they think of the Habs. Now that he has value he can hold Gainey over the coals until Gainey flinches. My "Theory of Knowledge" teacher always used to ask : How do you know? How do you know that Ryder hates Montreal, that he doesn't enjoy playing here and that his only wish is to get traded??? How do you know? These are very mean assumptions to take IMO, unless you have some real basis. It's like those saying (NOT aiming at you here though) that Theo is a greedy SOB because Bulin has signed for 6.75... How do you know that Theo is asking for these numbers? all offers and counter offers are confidential untill they are released!!! You can't say that the guy is greedy because of another goalie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Originally posted by alexstreamMy "Theory of Knowledge" teacher always used to ask : How do you know? How do you know that Ryder hates Montreal, that he doesn't enjoy playing here and that his only wish is to get traded??? How do you know? These are very mean assumptions to take IMO, unless you have some real basis. It's like those saying (NOT aiming at you here though) that Theo is a greedy SOB because Bulin has signed for 6.75... How do you know that Theo is asking for these numbers? all offers and counter offers are confidential untill they are released!!! You can't say that the guy is greedy because of another goalie... ah, a voice of reason! we'll see how things happen when they happen. Ryder is playing on a good young team and he has a second line position locked up, lotsa ice time in a full building that's biggest in the league, the fans love him, the chicks are hot in Montreal and the food is great. What's not to like? I hated avocados and artichokes when I was young, now I love 'em. Can't judge a professional hockey player by who he cheered for when he was 10! [Edited on 9-8-05 by JeanLucPilon] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I don't know, I'm making educated guesses based on what I've seen and heard. He *is* a Leaf fan, that much I know. He did turn down at least one contract offer, that's true as well. Montreal *is* a tough place to play, even if all the hottest chicks kept him company every night. Just like with Theo. Educated guesses. He put up a real struggle last time we tried to sign him - do you have any reason to believe he won't do the same this time? I don't claim to *know* anything, I just project based on what I do know (admittedly very little). These boards would be awfully boring if we all decided to forego conjecture and instead talk about what we do know for sure. Guessing at salaries is conjecture, but no one seems to mind that part. ;-) If you all prefer, though, I shall keep my big mouth shut and not engage in any form of conjecture again. Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 The only thing I can say about that is that, so far as I understand, his contracts ran out a few times when he was wandering down in the lower leagues. If that was the case, he didn't have to resign with the Canadiens, he could have made a concerted effort to go to the Leafs but it doesn't look like he did. He kept resigning with Montreal. So, this antipathy about the Canadiens sounds like a bad rumour to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 I just found this page on fourthperiod.com (http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/mtl050816.html) and, on the right-hand-side, it says that Montreal's total payroll is 24.6 million. It doesn't take into account Hossa and Komisarek and some of the recent signings but, the first two amount to 1.2 more (therefore 25.8) and the other recent signings and the resignings of their prospects don't amount to that much more. I don't have the figures off-hand but the only signings left are Ryder & Théodore. Does all of this, with the signings of Ryder & Théodore really add up to the 37 million that was stated earlier? I don't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 The other signings include Bulis(1M), Ribeiro(1.178M) and Koivu(3.42M). That totals at 5.618M. A couple of minor signingswill bring about a million. Add it to your 25.8M number and we get 31.4M. Then we have Theodore asking for maybe 5 million. Ryder will get a little more than a million and you forgot Markov who deserves about $2M. That brings us over the cap but between my guesses at salaries and possible mistakes at fourthperiod.com I'd say we messed up our math. Let's hope we're at $37M.:?- :que::hlogo::ghg::hlogo::can: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthMonger Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by Bulis_the_HabbieThe other signings include Bulis(1M), Ribeiro(1.178M) and Koivu(3.42M). That totals at 5.618M. A couple of minor signingswill bring about a million. Add it to your 25.8M number and we get 31.4M. Then we have Theodore asking for maybe 5 million. Ryder will get a little more than a million and you forgot Markov who deserves about $2M. That brings us over the cap but between my guesses at salaries and possible mistakes at fourthperiod.com I'd say we messed up our math. Let's hope we're at $37M.:?- :que::hlogo::ghg::hlogo::can: Don't panic. The 24.6 million includes Bulis, Ribs, and Koivu. http://www.thefourthperiod.com/Montreal.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by TruthMonger] Don't panic. The 24.6 million includes Bulis, Ribs, and Koivu. http://www.thefourthperiod.com/Montreal.html Phew!! Then we have no reason to hit 37M! Theo/Ryder/Markov=8M approx. We should end up about 35M which is good. Gives us some breathing room, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcnail Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 TSN also has a good section that keeps track of salaries.. East - http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature.asp?fid=6926 West - http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature.asp?fid=7006 Nice to see what the others are spending as well ~arc~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topgun19 Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Does anyone know what the roster size is? Is it 23 players per team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Two goalies will make 21 but that's not counting Plekanec, Higgins, Perezhogin or any of the prospects besides Marcel Hossa. And about the salary: Mark Streit isn't listed on thefourthperiod.. that's another million or so, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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