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December 5th Avs vs Habs


JoeLassister

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2 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Yes, I would go with either Vejdemo or Belzile. They are more ready, I think, and Poehling needs the time in Laval.

Isn’t Belzile still hurt? I would give Veejdemo a shot just to give Poehling more time under Bouchrd’s tutelage.

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46 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I proposed trading him when he had higher value to get the equivalent high value in LD

 

Now it is not an option anymore 

I think he's still a quality D man. His value probably isn't knocked as bad as you'd think.

 

Seeing a trade with Petry and Gostisbehere wouldn't be unreasonable. We get our top 4 LHD,  to play with Weber; Philly gets a top 4 RHD, to play with Sanheim.

 

It's a risk I would be willing to take with Gostisbehere, and other pieces would be involved

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We need to add to our defensive core rather than subtract the second best defenseman in order to replace him with a potential second best defenseman. It was only 6 weeks ago that people were claiming Petry is the true number 1 on the team. While I never agreed with that, he’s still 37th in the League in defensive scoring, which would put him as a top tier #2 offensively, and has similar numbers to someone like Alex Edler, who I would have liked to sign in the off season. He also has better numbers, including the +/- to someone like Tyson Barrie, who would have been a “high profile” addition to our LD in the off season had we acquired him.
 

I don’t think Gostisbehere is a top pairing defenseman right now but he would help our left side. I would not include Petry in a deal for him though, unless we were getting someone else back in addition. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

We need to add to our defensive core rather than subtract the second best defenseman in order to replace him with a potential second best defenseman. It was only 6 weeks ago that people were claiming Petry is the true number 1 on the team. While I never agreed with that, he’s still 37th in the League in defensive scoring, which would put him as a top tier #2 offensively, and has similar numbers to someone like Alex Edler, who I would have liked to sign in the off season. He also has better numbers, including the +/- to someone like Tyson Barrie, who would have been a “high profile” addition to our LD in the off season had we acquired him.
 

I don’t think Gostisbehere is a top pairing defenseman right now but he would help our left side. I would not include Petry in a deal for him though, unless we were getting someone else back in addition. 

 

 

You need to give up pieces to make a trade and at this point Bergevin is not trading picks and prospects. Addition by subtraction is not ideal, but Bergevin has once again painted himself into a corner

 

Gostisbehere is a top 4 D-man. He needs a change of scenery. A 26 year old, LHD, who has put up 60 points, is worth the risk. 

 

Montreal is deep with RHD prospects. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Habber31 said:

You need to give up pieces to make a trade and at this point Bergevin is not trading picks and prospects. 

 

Gostisbehere is a top 4 D-man. He needs a change of scenery. A 26 year old, LHD, who has put up 60 points, is worth the risk. 

 

Montreal is deep with RHD prospects. 

And then when Weber gets injured, we’ll have to rely on those prospects to fill the void on the top pairing, and we’ll have the same issue on the right side. Only to be compounded by the fact that Gostisbehere’s change of scenery did not help him out.

 

I am sorry to say this, but when it comes to change of scenery actually helping out statistical output, Montreal has not historically been the best place to achieve this. Jonathan Drouin needed a change of scenery and produced less points than his final year in Tampa. Max Domi did well here but without trying to back up my own point, he seems to be the type of player who thrives playing in a big market, and he was stuck in Arizona. The same thing is happening to Kessel this season but in reverse. 
 

Anyway, get Gostisbehere and that’s fine, but get him while his value is low. I don’t exactly know what the proposal of your trade is but Petry for Gostisbehere straight up is highway robbery for Philadelphia, needless to say. 

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A further point is that Montreal actually doesn’t have the worst defensive core in the league. There are many teams with unorthodox players on the top pair or AHLers on the 3rd pairing. 
 

With that being said, the best defensive cores have quality players on all 3 defensive pairings. A team like St. Louis had the luxury of having a player like Justin Faulk on the third pairing until recently. 
 

Tampa has a left side of Hedman, Mcdonagh and Sergachev on the left side and Eddie Cerbak on the right side of their 2nd pairing. With that being said, I don’t think they are looking to trade away McDonagh in order to better their right side. 
 

A final point is that left handed defensemen should be easier to acquire than right side defensemen and as a result any right handed defensenan that’s able to produce at Petry’s rate should hold quite substantial value. 
 

It seems you’re looking at it like “Petry’s been abysmal for a stretch AND we need a left defenseman. Let’s trade Petry to kill two birds with one stone.” Instead, acquiring a left defenseman and Petry’s poor defensive play recently should be independent thoughts from one another. If you trade Petry, it should be because we’re selling. Get 3 future pieces back. Petry for Gostisbehere is a lateral move at absolute best despite us having then acquired a left defenseman. I can assure you that once that trade happens, our left side looks stronger, and our right side becomes weaker. Needless to say. 

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28 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

And then when Weber gets injured, we’ll have to rely on those prospects to fill the void on the top pairing, and we’ll have the same issue on the right side. Only to be compounded by the fact that Gostisbehere’s change of scenery did not help him out.

 

I am sorry to say this, but when it comes to change of scenery actually helping out statistical output, Montreal has not historically been the best place to achieve this. Jonathan Drouin needed a change of scenery and produced less points than his final year in Tampa. Max Domi did well here but without trying to back up my own point, he seems to be the type of player who thrives playing in a big market, and he was stuck in Arizona. The same thing is happening to Kessel this season but in reverse. 
 

Anyway, get Gostisbehere and that’s fine, but get him while his value is low. I don’t exactly know what the proposal of your trade is but Petry for Gostisbehere straight up is highway robbery for Philadelphia, needless to say. 

Im not doing the trade one for one either, but the real Petry is coming to light again. 

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1 hour ago, Habber31 said:

I think he's still a quality D man. His value probably isn't knocked as bad as you'd think.

 

Seeing a trade with Petry and Gostisbehere wouldn't be unreasonable. We get our top 4 LHD,  to play with Weber; Philly gets a top 4 RHD, to play with Sanheim.

 

It's a risk I would be willing to take with Gostisbehere, and other pieces would be involved

I think Petry is abetter defenseman than Gotisbehere. One for one is out of the question. 

 

But other clubs, line MIN for example, are heavy on LD and may be a better partner than PHI

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41 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

A further point is that Montreal actually doesn’t have the worst defensive core in the league.

Have given up the 2nd most goals in NHL and most high % scoring chances (or some stat like that).

So, if not the worst, darn close to it...excluding Red Wings who win it hands down.

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2 hours ago, Habber31 said:

I know a lot of people like Petry on here, and I hate to trash one player , but Petry has been absolute trash... His gap control is atrocious. 

 

This is the real Petry from 2 years ago. His hockey IQ is in the basement. Everytime he's on the ice, the other team buries. Then he pouts his way back to the bench.. - 14, in the last 9 games; Garbage. 

 

 

 

Plus/minus is a garbage stat... absolute garbage. 

Look at the Leskinen thread for the advanced stats on Petry. 

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41 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Plus/minus is a garbage stat... absolute garbage. 

Look at the Leskinen thread for the advanced stats on Petry. 

Ya, I'll take a look 

 

I get this trade isn't solving all of our problems, and if there is a better option than trading Petry, I'm obviously all for it. I just don't see who else is going to get us a "legit" Left D. Bergevin cannot trade picks or prospects, with the way this team is playing. 

 

But, I'm sure Bergevin knows that he's going to lose his job if the shitty play continues. So, I guess, trading picks does happen? This g.m always seems to get himself into these predicaments 

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20 minutes ago, DON said:

Have given up the 2nd most goals in NHL and most high % scoring chances (or some stat like that).

So, if not the worst, darn close to it...excluding Red Wings who win it hands down.

Perhaps team defense, including applying systems and such but on paper the Habs do not have the worst defense, or even second worst in the league. I’m only stating it because improving our defense on paper is what the discussion is about. I’d take our current defensive corps on paper over Anaheim, Los Angeles, New York Rangers, Ottawa, Detroit, New Jersey. And then there are a myriad of teams who the Habs are equal to (on paper), or better than but they could be argued either way. 
 

There aren’t many teams who stand out on the defensive end on paper but teams like Carolina, St. Louis, Boston, NYI, maybe Tampa, are doing a good job. 

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Perhaps team defense, including applying systems and such but on paper the Habs do not have the worst defense, or even second worst in the league. I’m only stating it because improving our defense on paper is what the discussion is about. I’d take our current defensive corps on paper over Anaheim, Los Angeles, New York Rangers, Ottawa, Detroit, New Jersey. And then there are a myriad of teams who the Habs are equal to (on paper), or better than but they could be argued either way. 
 

There aren’t many teams who stand out on the defensive end on paper but teams like Carolina, St. Louis, Boston, NYI, maybe Tampa, are doing a good job. 

Prime Example: 1st two goals caused by d-men being flat footed and getting beat to net and 3rd goal was Suzuki having to play d on SH 2 on 1.

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For some reason, both Weber and Petry were on the ice at the same time on the second goal.  This meant that Petry was playing on the left side of the ice. 

 

On the first goal WEber was on the left and Chiarot was on the right.  I don't know why they were inverted. 

Why do we have D playing on their wrong side?  Well shit all gets screwed up when they are only using 5 D basically cause Leskinen was limited to under 8 minutes. 

 

Thats part of the issue here.  we can't roll three pairings cause Julien only has 5 D he trusts and its screwing things up. 

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2 hours ago, DON said:

Prime Example: 1st two goals caused by d-men being flat footed and getting beat to net and 3rd goal was Suzuki having to play d on SH 2 on 1.


On the first goal, Thompson should have covered Graves, so I don’t think we should pin that entirely on the defence corps.

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11 minutes ago, Commandant said:

For some reason, both Weber and Petry were on the ice at the same time on the second goal.  This meant that Petry was playing on the left side of the ice. 

 

On the first goal WEber was on the left and Chiarot was on the right.  I don't know why they were inverted. 

Why do we have D playing on their wrong side?  Well shit all gets screwed up when they are only using 5 D basically cause Leskinen was limited to under 8 minutes. 

 

Thats part of the issue here.  we can't roll three pairings cause Julien only has 5 D he trusts and its screwing things up. 

Isnt the 1st game the defense has been crap this year. Richardson seems to be the one who should take brunt of blame, obviously Julien makes final decisions but much easier to turf ol Luke and maybe call up Skillsy from his New England minor hockey gig!:popcorn:

 

1 minute ago, tomh009 said:


On the first goal, Thompson should have covered Graves, so I don’t think we should pin that entirely on the defence corps.

Weber was 90% at fault, underestimating (or unable to cope with) the speed of Makar.

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Just now, tomh009 said:

Weber lost Makar, yes, but Thompson should have prevented Graves from getting to the rebound. There is enough blame for both to get a decent share.

I would put rest blame on Primeau not covering puck.

If Weber hadn't of stumbled and if Primeau had of not handled puck like live grenade, all would of been dandy.

Same on Petry goal against, who for sure was most at fault and Primeau was rest.

 

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13 minutes ago, DON said:

I would put rest blame on Primeau not covering puck.

If Weber hadn't of stumbled and if Primeau had of not handled puck like live grenade, all would of been dandy.

Same on Petry goal against, who for sure was most at fault and Primeau was rest.


A chain of events, as usual.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Isnt the 1st game the defense has been crap this year. Richardson seems to be the one who should take brunt of blame, obviously Julien makes final decisions but much easier to turf ol Luke and maybe call up Skillsy from his New England minor hockey gig!:popcorn:

 

Weber was 90% at fault, underestimating (or unable to cope with) the speed of Makar.

 

Obviously there are other problems too.  Thats why i said it was PART of the issue.

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