puck7x Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Between Ribeiro and Perreault? Since the logical thing for the habs to do over the summer is to trade ONE of them , which one would bring the higher return in a trade? 23 year old low paid playmaking smallish (yet to break out) centre Mike Ribeiro? or 32 year old smallish sniper centre Yanic Perreault (who makes 2-3 mil a season) .... Perreault will get you 20-30 goals per year and lead the league in faceoff % , but he blows defensively , he isnt physical and he is a UFA at the end of next season. Ribeiro is young , also not great defensively (learning) , has lots of skills (hasnt blossomed yet) ... Personally I'd prefer to trade Perreault over the summer .... Although I'm not sold on the idea of having Ribeiro as a 2nd line centre of the future (we need to get bigger down the middle especially with Saku as the #1) [Edited on 2003/5/16 by puck7x] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Ribeiro may impress some teams because of his potential to become a solid player, however as you mentioned puck, his size (as well as his lack of defensive abilities) may scare more than a few teams away. Perreault is the better player now, but again, his size and weak backchecking abilities hurt his trade value. I would say the best value will vary actually, if it's a team looking to rebuild and/or waiting for the new CBA to arrive for financial stability, than Ribeiro would be the better of the two. But, if it's a more established team looking to add a quality veteran and can afford the higher salary, than Perreault would likely be the way to go. I feel that we're going to start the season with both on the roster, as both players' values are low. If I had to choose which one I wanted to keep, I would keep Perreault, as firstly, I HATE Ribeiro with a passion, but also, Higgins may be ready, or depending on who we draft this year, that player may be ready also. If not, we could sign Perreault or another veteran C to fill the spot until someone else is ready. If we still had Ribeiro in the organization, we wouldn't be able to make room for that "up-and-comer", and if he doesn't pan out, we're pretty much stuck with him for the long haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck7x Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 Originally posted by dlbalr I HATE Ribeiro with a passion, May I ask why? Its alright to hate players (I hate a few myself) , but I find it strange that people can hate Ribeiro , I can understand if people dislike him , but hate is such a strong word for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 My main reason for hating Ribeiro is that in my own opinion, he doesn't try all that often. When he does, he's pretty good, but he just floats around the ice too often for me to like him. Also, the fact that he doesn't hit, play defence and that he's small are also factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck7x Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 Originally posted by dlbalr Also, the fact that he doesn't hit, play defence and that he's small are also factors. AHHH! Another person who thinks Ribeiro doesnt hit. For some reason their is a huge myth on the internet that Ribeiro doesnt hit. IT IS WRONG! He does hit , but because of his small-size his hits have little impact , but he does throw his body around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 From the games I saw this season, he didn't hit often and when he did, they were completely ineffective, thus making his checking abilities ineffective. What did you think about the rest of my original post, the Ribeiro comment was only a small portion of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck7x Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 Originally posted by dlbalrWhat did you think about the rest of my original post, the Ribeiro comment was only a small portion of it... You were pretty bang on. Your right , the value of each player will be higher/lower depending on the team ... For instance Perreault would be more valuable to a team who is loading up for a cup run at the deadline ... While Ribeiro has more value on a young/rebuilding team who is willing to wait for Ribeiro to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
un_habitant Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 bottom line.... we know perreault' ceiling..... and we know that ribeiro's skill suprasses perreault's ceiling.... i think im going to puke now....:puke: that made me dizzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs77 Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Here's the way I see it. There are different ways of looking at it: - money: We have a team that has to cut payroll with the new CBA coming up, Perreault costs 3M per while Ribeiro makes under 1M. - trade value: That's a tough one, one is still unproven & the other has shown his limitations, costs more and will be a pending UFA.... in terms of value I'd tend to hang on to the one who's value is more likely to appreciate with time: the kid. - future plans: Which one fits in our future plans?... the answer is neither. Koivu is our #1 center, Higgins who is own the way will more likely be given a #2 role... I doubt we'll give him #3 duty to try and contain the opponent's top line right off the bat. The 3rd centre (besides Koivu & Higgins)will need to be someone who can handle the defensive role... Perreault & Ribs are both offensive minded and neither could fill that role. So keeping Perreault is the safer short term solution... whereas by keeping Ribs you give him the opportunity to surprise you and stick with the team, or at the very least by playing on the 2nd line all year his numbers will go up and so will his trade value if you want to trade him later. :hlogo: So since I don't want to re-sign Perreault after this year, he costs 3M per & we have a new CBA on the way, I'd trade him. With teams more money conscious after the new CBA, cheap kids like Ribeiro will be much more attractive on the trade market.... plus as I said he'll also have gained value by playing regularly for a whole year for the 1st time. If I trade one, I trade Perreault. But I'd look at keeping both and dumping Juneau instead... he has a bad back, provides ZERO offense and even his defensive ability is going downhill fast. And he costs 2M, he's in the last year of his contract too. Which ever way we go... the center position will be a weak link next year. Nothing new there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck7x Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 Originally posted by Habs77But I'd look at keeping both and dumping Juneau instead... he has a bad back, provides ZERO offense and even his defensive ability is going downhill fast. And he costs 2M, he's in the last year of his contract too. Yeah but if we do that then how (and where) do we use Ribeiro/Perreault? Switch one of them to the wing? Or use one on the 4th line like we did for awhile last season... (I do NOT want to go through another season with Perreault/Ribeiro as our 4th line centre , they are both 2nd line centres , that is the ONLY position they can fill) BTW : I love the idea of dumping Juneau , I (and others) think that Juneau is one of the big reasons why this team has internal (locker-room) issues... We need to trade the "rat" ... hehehe [Edited on 2003/5/17 by puck7x] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs77 Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 If Juneau were to be dumped, Perreault would centre the 3rd line. Unlike MT, CJ likes sending out Koivu vs. the opponent's #1 line... so having a checking line is not as critical. And Perreault would be playing with capable defensive players like Sundstrom. I'd still prefer to have one, but for one year I could live with Koivu/Ribs/Perreault as the top 3 centers. If Ribs can't cut it, or if an injury occurs, we'd still have 2 centers capable of playing the top 2 lines. And someone like Kilger could come up and centre the 3rd line if that happens (and Gratton comes up to center 4th line). As for the PK in Juneau's absence (Dackell gone too btw)... we still have Sundstrom, Bulis, Kilger, Hossa who can play that well... and CJ also likes using the Koivu/Zednik combo on PK. Like I said, which ever way we go our center situation will :puke: next year. P.S. If we trade up and grab Staal/Horton in the draft... we'll be set at center: Koivu-Higgins-Staal/Horton. That would be nice, and obviously that will mean no Perreault or Ribeiro in our future. :-^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck7x Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 Originally posted by Habs77If Juneau were to be dumped, Perreault would centre the 3rd line. Unlike MT, CJ likes sending out Koivu vs. the opponent's #1 line... so having a checking line is not as critical. And Perreault would be playing with capable defensive players like Sundstrom. Yeah but that creates a whole new problem. Koivu's line stunk defensively last season! Do we really want him going head-to-head with other top-lines? I dont... Unless we put some big/defensively-responsible wingers on his line... Perreault as a 3rd line centre? :puke: Ahh well , my hopes arent high for next season. All I want is for the kids to keep on progressing... Build towards the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs77 Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Originally posted by puck7xYeah but that creates a whole new problem. Koivu's line stunk defensively last season! Do we really want him going head-to-head with other top-lines? I dont... You're talking like it's not already the case... since CJ has come in Koivu's line HAS been playing the top lines already. I'm not crazy about it either, but instead of having a Juneau-lead 3rd defensive line with nobody to cover... perhaps Perreault could benefit from lesser coverage and provide offense from the 3rd line like we haven't seen in years. Unless we put some big/defensively-responsible wingers on his line... Like I said, Sundstrom is a defensive specialist who can also produce offensively... then you could have Ward to add some size to that line. Like I said... it's only for 1 year, and it's the safest way to go given our other options IMO. Lineup could look like this for next year: (not great, but realistic) Bulis-Koivu-Audette Hossa-Ribeiro-Zednik Sundstrom-Perreault-Ward Dwyer-Kilger-McKay [Edited on 17-5-03 by Habs77] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck7x Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 Originally posted by Habs77You're talking like it's not already the case... since CJ has come in Koivu's line HAS been playing the top lines already. Yeah what I meant to say was... Do we really want him going head-to-head with other top-lines AGAIN... Like I said, Sundstrom is a defensive specialist who can also produce offensively... then you could have Ward to add some size to that line. Yeah that idea is alright but why did you put them on Perreaults line? When I said size/defensive I meant for Koivu's line... Although it would be hard to get big/defensive players on Saku's line without sacrificing some of the lines offensive ability... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed_old Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Koivu's line stunk defensively because of all our "offensive" forwards only Bulis knows what to do in the D zone. As for the Ribs/Perreault issue, I think Perreault has more value because he's a proven player that can produce right now. That's the kind of player top teams or teams looking to make the playoffs next year want to add. Its the NHL's new paradox. Teams want to make the playoffs for the extra revenues; but to get there they go after more expensive veterans. Not many teams want to go through a long playoffs-less rebuilding phase anymore. My personnal opinion: keep Ribs. Because of his pure offensive instinct, his ceiling is higher than any of our other forwards. Now would be the worst time to trade him. And I dont understand why dlbalr hates Ribs. By the end of this season, Ribeiro was often our only forward to make things happen on a regular basis. And like Puck said, Ribs has some grit and will throw his body around. As for the floating part, I think dlbalr is getting mixed up with expressions here. A real floater is a passive player, one that stays behind the play waiting. Its not how Ribs plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck7x Posted May 18, 2003 Author Share Posted May 18, 2003 Originally posted by KoZedAs for the floating part, I think dlbalr is getting mixed up with expressions here. A real floater is a passive player, one that stays behind the play waiting. Its not how Ribs plays. If you want a good example of a floater its Martin Rucinsky , The :king: of floaters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed_old Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Marcel Hossa is also starting to look more and more like a floater. Too often he looks like he doesnt want the puck and satisfies himself with just following the play. Me no like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAussiePosse Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Ribeiro is definitely a keeper. He hits, but like Bouillion, he fails to do much damage. I'm actually more inclined to trade Hossa more than anything. Sure, 5 goals in 4 games was great, but after that? I want AS to try out a Kid line next season, at the start. Hossa-Ribeiro-Ward. Not that it'll work, just to try it out. If Zednik goes on LW for a short time, and we play him with Koivu and Czerkawski/Audette, it might also work. However, IMO, Ribeiro stays over Hossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck7x Posted May 18, 2003 Author Share Posted May 18, 2003 Originally posted by TheAussiePosseRibeiro is definitely a keeper. He hits, but like Bouillion, he fails to do much damage. I'm actually more inclined to trade Hossa more than anything. Sure, 5 goals in 4 games was great, but after that? I want AS to try out a Kid line next season, at the start. Hossa-Ribeiro-Ward. Not that it'll work, just to try it out. If Zednik goes on LW for a short time, and we play him with Koivu and Czerkawski/Audette, it might also work. However, IMO, Ribeiro stays over Hossa I'd have to disagree about Bouillon , the guy is thick and has a low centre of gravity , so his hits are effective , he has layed out a few people so far (they NEVER see it coming) ... But I agree that Hossa is expendable , given the choice of who to trade between Hainsey/Hossa (since those 2 are in alot of rumours) I'd trade Hossa. BTW : You made it here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justathot Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 First of all, good morning. Thank you, Habs77, for steering me here. Second of all, the question is a no-brainer. You trade Perreault and give Ribeiro one more chance-- this year, playing regular minutes-- to show what he can or cannot do. Ribeiro's upside is 50 assists per year. He has Gretzky-like talents but needs to show that he can be consistent and professional in his work ethic. I think he WILL make that transition. But it would be a mistake to trade him now, unless, of course, it means a crack at a Top Three pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Dump Perreault and keep Ribeiro. The question of trade value really depends on who you are dealing with. Teams like Pittsburgh would value Ribeiro more while teams with money and an already solid line-up would probably value Perreault more. From our standpoint we have a payroll that's WAY WAY to high for our talent level. We need to pare that down. I don't think Ribeiro is that far off from Perreault right now. I'd give Ribs another chance and dump Perreault. Especially with a lock-out coming... I would also deal Hossa in a heartbeat. Personally I think we need a good LW to play on the top two lines. Hossa isn't that guy and combined with Perreault they could probably get us one. Then if we can get rid of Czerkawski and McKay I'd be ecstatic. We'd save coin and put a better line-up on the ice. We could use that money to upgrade our defense. Bulis Koivu Zednik LW(from trade)- Ribeiro - Audette Sundstrom - Plekanec/Juneau - Ward Ryder - Kilger - Dackell Markov - Rivet Tverdovsky - Quintal Souray?? - Komisarek I'd say we need to upgrade Rivet or Quintal. Or find a replacement for Souray if he can't play... I'll be very, very happy if Perreault, Czerkawski, McKay and Dykhuis are not on this team next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs77 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Originally posted by JustathotFirst of all, good morning. Thank you, Habs77, for steering me here. No problem, welcome aboard. As for the Perreault/Ribeiro debate... one more thing I'd like to mention is that although teams aren't exactly looking to add to their payroll in the present environment, since Perreault's contract expires before the new CBA it actually makes him more attractive to other teams IMO. I hope both Juneau (2M) & Perreault (3M) are dealt... but what are the chances of that. That would be 5M gone right there, plus Breezer's 4M, we still don't know if Czerkawski (2.6M) will be back either... although I'm hearing not. We'd be right about at the 40-42M payroll level GG wants. That'll depend on how much he have to pay on potential buyouts, and if we'll end up dealing some of them for equally pricey players (ex: Tverdovsky makes 3.6M... not much saved from Breezer's 4M) Bouillon might not be re-signed at all. Audette will probably dictate whether we have a good year or bad, if he can play 100% like he did before the injury then we're ok, but if he stinks like last year again... oh boy. He still has 2 years left on his contract... Perezhogin set to take his place when he's ready. This will another "in between" year for the Habs, but not as ugly than last year IMO. I'll start up that discussion on another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pens_fan_1 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I think Ribeiro has the higher trade value, although I imagine neither would fetch too much in a trade. [Edited on 2003/5/22 by pens_fan_1] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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