Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Habsfan89 said: His trades are for mostly 4th line players. Other gm's make less trade's but for better talented players / top line players. Really, 4th line players. What about Shea Weber, Max Domi, Tatar, Suzuki. Those are pretty good players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: His trades are for mostly 4th line players. Other gm's make less trade's but for better talented players / top line players. Weber Petry Domi Tatar/suzuki Drouin Ryder Vanek Danault Armia Shaw Who else is making this many trades for top 9/top 4s? Only trades for 4th liners? Thats some bullshit right there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, sbhatt said: The caliber of his trades is a valid point. There is a lot of 3rd line/4th line/bottom pair type activity in is body of work. I disagree totally as per my last post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Commandant said: Weber Domi Tatar/suzuki Drouin Ryder Vanek Danault Who else is making this many trades for top 6/top 4s? I forgot about Danault and Drouin. The Danault trade was outstanding!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I disagree totally as per my last post. Not saying they were all lower end trades, but his volume has its fair share of those in it. The problem was the lack of the trades this team most deserpately needed to be a solid playoff qualifier. Example: not picking up a top pair caliber LD...it has been a problem for several seasons, so it can't be chalked up to waiting on Romanov next season. Before that, we couldn't get the upgrade at center we desperately needed for several seasons running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 13 minutes ago, Commandant said: Weber Petry Domi Tatar/suzuki Drouin Ryder Vanek Danault Armia Shaw Who else is making this many trades for top 9/top 4s? Only trades for 4th liners? Thats some bullshit right there. Your not listening his not adding top talent to this team his trading talent for talent. Got Weber for Subban that's not adding Got Suzuki and Tatar by trading Pacioretty that's not adding He got Domi by trading galchenyuk not adding Only top players he added to this team without taking away from it was Drouin and Danault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Just now, Habsfan89 said: Your not listening his not adding top talent to this team his trading talent for talent. Got Weber for Subban that's not adding Got Suzuki and Tatar by trading Pacioretty that's not adding He got Domi by trading galchenyuk not adding Only top players he added to this team without taking away from it was Drouin and Danault. You have to give talent tonget talent. Your complaint is that you want him to get good players for nothing? Thats a stupid complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: Your not listening his not adding top talent to this team his trading talent for talent. Got Weber for Subban that's not adding Got Suzuki and Tatar by trading Pacioretty that's not adding He got Domi by trading galchenyuk not adding Only top players he added to this team without taking away from it was Drouin and Danault. Would you rather have Galchenyuk than Domi? Subban than Weber? Pacioretty instead of Suzuki and Tatar? The only trade I would take back is the Drouin trade. Do you think you can add top end talent in a trade for nothing? Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 14 minutes ago, sbhatt said: Not saying they were all lower end trades, but his volume has its fair share of those in it. The problem was the lack of the trades this team most deserpately needed to be a solid playoff qualifier. Example: not picking up a top pair caliber LD...it has been a problem for several seasons, so it can't be chalked up to waiting on Romanov next season. Before that, we couldn't get the upgrade at center we desperately needed for several seasons running. I agree they need another defenceman. I was simply responding to your earlier post which in my opinion was incorrect. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Would you rather have Galchenyuk than Domi? Subban than Weber? Pacioretty instead of Suzuki and Tatar? The only trade I would take back is the Drouin trade. Do you think you can add top end talent in a trade for nothing? Seriously? Trading draft picks and prospects to add top talent to improve your team. If you look at the trades he got lucky with Them. they could of been bad , Domi was a question mark, he didn't even want Tatar and the way Sergachev has died down the Drouin trade could of been bad also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 25 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: Only top players he added to this team without taking away from it was Drouin and Danault. Armia? But getting talent for nothing? Or are you saying he should have traded picks and prospects for older players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: Trading draft picks and prospects to add top talent to improve your team. If you look at the trades he got lucky with Them. they could of been bad , Domi was a question mark, he didn't even want Tatar and the way Sergachev has died down the Drouin trade could of been bad also. Now you are complaining that he got lucky? I am ok with MB getting lucky. I hope he has more luck. You are always taking a chance when you make a trade. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Armia? But getting talent for nothing? Or are you saying he should have traded picks and prospects for older players? No I am saying he should add top end players to the mix of this team without trading our key players which he hasn't done other than yes sorry forgot about Armia and I had said danault. Lets not forget why he traded Pacioretty in the first place or galchenyuk in the first place or even Subban. All those trades were because he backed himself into a corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Armia? But getting talent for nothing? Or are you saying he should have traded picks and prospects for older players? Armia was an excellent trade. I am not sure what he is saying. Maybe Habsfan89 will clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: No I am saying he should add top end players to the mix of this team without trading our key players which he hasn't done other than yes sorry forgot about Armia and I had said danault. But how do you get top players? Give up other quality players Give up picks or prospects Sign them as UFAs (if they were willing to come to Montreal) I don't see any way to get top players without either giving up our current players, or by giving up our future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: No I am saying he should add top end players to the mix of this team without trading our key players which he hasn't done other than yes sorry forgot about Armia and I had said danault. Lets not forget why he traded Pacioretty in the first place or galchenyuk in the first place or even Subban. All those moves were because he backed himself into a corner. It would be nice to add top end players without trading key players. I think that's the dream of every GM. Not sure how that would work in the real world. Other GM's aren't in the business of giving good players away unless they are desperate (ie. cap crunch which is how they got Armia). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, tomh009 said: But how do you get top players? Give up other quality players Give up picks or prospects Sign them as UFAs (if they were willing to come to Montreal) I don't see any way to get top players without either giving up our current players, or by giving up our future. Have you tried wishing really really hard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Armia was an excellent trade. I am not sure what he is saying. Maybe Habsfan89 will clarify. No you didn't read right I missed mentioning Armia but those along with the Danault type of trades are what I am talking about we don't see much of that from Bergevin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Habsfan89 said: No you didn't read right I missed mentioning Armia but those along with the Danault type of trades are what I am talking about we don't see much of that from Bergevin. Well perhaps you can find examples of other GM's who are constantly getting top end players without giving up much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, Trizzak said: Have you tried wishing really really hard? Oh I have tried that. Hasn't worked so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, tomh009 said: But how do you get top players? Give up other quality players Give up picks or prospects Sign them as UFAs (if they were willing to come to Montreal) I don't see any way to get top players without either giving up our current players, or by giving up our future. you give up prospects and a draft pick'S will get you a top player. Watch the team's that challenge for cups every year and see how they do it. I am not saying the guy needs to be fired , I just don't get way people here talk about him like he's a God and the best in the world. I will give him credit on turning this team around in 2 years. But I just feel at this point we should be able to add top talent to this team To gel with the talent we have. This to me smell's of a rebuild not a retool. Say it's a rebuild and we don't see us making a cup run now and I will be fine with it. Don't give us false hope and do nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Well perhaps you can find examples of other GM's who are constantly getting top end players without giving up much. Wilson. In picking up Thornton and Burns being the most obvious examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Wilson. In picking up Thornton and Burns being the most obvious examples. Those are good examples for sure. Of course one could also argue that San Jose has never won a cup and might miss the playoffs this year but Wilson kept them competitive for a good stretch of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 52 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: Trading draft picks and prospects to add top talent to improve your team. If you look at the trades he got lucky with Them. they could of been bad , Domi was a question mark, he didn't even want Tatar and the way Sergachev has died down the Drouin trade could of been bad also. Getting lucky is a bullshit argument just to take credit away from good work and good pro scouting. If he loses the deal... fire bergevin If he wins the deal... he got lucky. Its just bullshit to not give the guy credit. Come on now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Those are good examples for sure. Of course one could also argue that San Jose has never won a cup and might miss the playoffs this year but Wilson kept them competitive for a good stretch of time. He’s built a consistently competitive team and that’s all you can ask in today’s NHL. It’s moronic to judge a GM solely on cup wins. Their knob is field a team that has a realistic chance and Wilson has done that for a long long time. He regularly brings in elite star players, has done a great knob of drafting and developing. I’ll take him as a GM over a guy like Lombardi who did win the cup. the TBL are a perfect example of how there is. No guarantee even with a well constructed team. The key is good GM’s are able to get and develop ELITE players, fill their holes and improve their teams and have teams that are consistently playoff teams. The Bergevins rotate parts without really improving their team and will the dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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