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2021 NHL General Discussion


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Just now, alfredoh2009 said:

*  Regardless * How do you know that? *  Regardless *

"it sounds to me" doesn't mean I know ... just that that is what it seems like to me ... and nobody can KNOW whether or not it was a decision of the owner or the GM ... and ... BTW ... regardless meant whether or not the risk of having to pay two coaches was likely or not

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Granted, if Torts had been really confident about getting another job, he would have resigned an forfeited the guaranteed money. So it's not all on the Jackets. That seems to be the story of Jarmo - he wants to play chicken in every negotiation and he doesn't lose at chicken, no matter the end result being positive or negative.

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2 hours ago, GHT120 said:

But who made the decision ... the GM or the owner of a team that is bottom 5 in franchise value and revenue for several years, knowing that revenue streams for 2020-21 were not likely to improve due to Covid.

For some of the I think it was ownership in a small market and JD. Don’t forget that Davidson had a hissy fit about being criticized that the CBJ are exercising their contractual rights on bargaining power with RFA’s, and they shouldn’t be criticized for laying the hammer on negotiations while they have it.  I’m pretty sure he is being pressed by ownership as well.

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2 hours ago, Fanpuck33 said:

Granted, if Torts had been really confident about getting another job, he would have resigned an forfeited the guaranteed money. So it's not all on the Jackets. That seems to be the story of Jarmo - he wants to play chicken in every negotiation and he doesn't lose at chicken, no matter the end result being positive or negative.

Yeah. I don’t know why I’m he wouldn’t just forgot his salary if he wants out. Sounds like he wanted to have his cake and it eat it too. I can’t stand torts l, so I’m a biased against him anyways. There thebgood guy coaches who have been screwed over a few times (Gallant), and than there are pricks like Torts.

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Makes it awkward for Bergevin ***** IF ***** he has interest in Hamilton for next season ... any discussions would undoubtedly get out and make things uncomfortable for the current defence corps, maybe even the entire roster, as Hamilton's addition would require some "shuffling of contracts" for cap purposes.

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On 6/14/2021 at 1:55 PM, GHT120 said:

 

 

Makes it awkward for Bergevin ***** IF ***** he has interest in Hamilton for next season ... any discussions would undoubtedly get out and make things uncomfortable for the current defence corps, maybe even the entire roster, as Hamilton's addition would require some "shuffling of contracts" for cap purposes.

 

I have no opinion about Hamilton per se. I am, however, concerned that this fabulous playoff run will tempt MB into a status-quo approach. The D still needs to add a puck-mover. It’s important he not delude himself on that point.

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58 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I have no opinion about Hamilton per se. I am, however, concerned that this fabulous playoff run will tempt MB into a status-quo approach. The D still needs to add a puck-mover. It’s important he not delude himself on that point.

 

Agreed ... despite the playoff success, a PMTFLHD (puck-moving, top-four, left-hand defenceman) is badly needed to improve the team overall ... especially for the regular season (making the playoffs and positioning therein is important) ... not a uni-dimensional puck-mover, but a puck-mover that can also truly handle top-4 defensive minutes.

 

And, to be completely pragmatic, Weber is only going to get older ... *** NOT *** saying he is washed up ... he can still play, as he has shown this spring ... but I have always subscribed to the Branch Rickey philosophy:
                       "Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late." *

If the opportunity exists to bring in an established, under 30, legit top pairing RHD then it behooves the GM to explore all options.

 

* : Some will argue it should already have been done, but that is in the past ... but assuming he will be a Chara or Chelios (both still 20-min D into their 40s) is dangerous to ensuring continued success of the team.

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One characteristic of declining veterans seems to be that they can raise their game for significant spurts, especially in the playoffs. Weber, for all that he is a stalwart in this playoff run, was terrible this season by his standards - a ghost of himself - and it is unlikely he is going to get better. We squeaked into the playoffs with a team built for the post-season rather than the regular season marathon. So I agree with you. Standing pat is not the answer on D.

 

Even if by some miracle we go all the way, standing pat will still be a mistake. You don't freeze your core when you win - you still have to look intelligently and critically at how to improve the team going forward.

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

 

* : Some will argue it should already have been done, but that is in the past ...

Some could argue it may have been done already and to not make assumptions based on ?? nothing?

 

Which us fans love to make and is fine to speculate and debate; but we likely wont know details of discussions that went on between MB and 30 other GMs till years later.

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I have no opinion about Hamilton per se. I am, however, concerned that this fabulous playoff run will tempt MB into a status-quo approach. The D still needs to add a puck-mover. It’s important he not delude himself on that point.

If anything, looking Vegas’s D, he should recognize that our D is an offensive black hole.  Ability to get the puck out of our zone sucks.  Price is probably a better puck mover to support the player transition than most of our D.

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

Agreed ... despite the playoff success, a PMTFLHD (puck-moving, top-four, left-hand defenceman) is badly needed to improve the team overall ... especially for the regular season (making the playoffs and positioning therein is important) ... not a uni-dimensional puck-mover, but a puck-mover that can also truly handle top-4 defensive minutes.

 

And, to be completely pragmatic, Weber is only going to get older ... *** NOT *** saying he is washed up ... he can still play, as he has shown this spring ... but I have always subscribed to the Branch Rickey philosophy:
                       "Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late." *

If the opportunity exists to bring in an established, under 30, legit top pairing RHD then it behooves the GM to explore all options.

 

* : Some will argue it should already have been done, but that is in the past ... but assuming he will be a Chara or Chelios (both still 20-min D into their 40s) is dangerous to ensuring continued success of the team.

I still say we leave Weber exposed and also try and see the if we can trade for Dunn on the cheap.

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

Agreed ... despite the playoff success, a PMTFLHD (puck-moving, top-four, left-hand defenceman) is badly needed to improve the team overall ... especially for the regular season (making the playoffs and positioning therein is important) ... not a uni-dimensional puck-mover, but a puck-mover that can also truly handle top-4 defensive minutes.

 

And, to be completely pragmatic, Weber is only going to get older ... *** NOT *** saying he is washed up ... he can still play, as he has shown this spring ... but I have always subscribed to the Branch Rickey philosophy:
                       "Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late." *

If the opportunity exists to bring in an established, under 30, legit top pairing RHD then it behooves the GM to explore all options.

 

* : Some will argue it should already have been done, but that is in the past ... but assuming he will be a Chara or Chelios (both still 20-min D into their 40s) is dangerous to ensuring continued success of the team.

Chara was much more productive than Weber was and Chelios wasn’t making as much money as weber is - after the cap came in, he was pretty much making league minimum.

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2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Weber is not going anywhere

I know that, I can’t see MB moving Weber, but we have to be ruthless.
 

at a minimum, we at least have to be willing to expose him in the expansion draft. We have a chance to try and pickup a dman cheaper because a team knows they will lose them to Seattle (ie Dunn). If we wanted to chase a guy like Hamilton (who I can’t see as ever signing with us - seems happier in smaller market),we have to move Weber.
 

I don’t like a D that has Weber, Chariot and Edmondson in the top 4 - if anything these playoffs have shown our D is not good enough and we need more mobility and offense from the blue line. If we had a D that was better offensively, it would benefit our fir area by having a legitimate threat on the blueline. even if we don’t lose either of them, it allows us to upgrade and protect a better dman along with Petry and Edmondson. 

 

if we exposed Weber and Seattle doesn’t take Weber or Chariot (I actually think they would take Weber, at least we could still move a guy like Chariot to another tram that has holes to fill from the expansion draft.

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

One characteristic of declining veterans seems to be that they can raise their game for significant spurts, especially in the playoffs. Weber, for all that he is a stalwart in this playoff run, was terrible this season by his standards - a ghost of himself - and it is unlikely he is going to get better. We squeaked into the playoffs with a team built for the post-season rather than the regular season marathon. So I agree with you. Standing pat is not the answer on D.

 

Even if by some miracle we go all the way, standing pat will still be a mistake. You don't freeze your core when you win - you still have to look intelligently and critically at how to improve the team going forward.

Main thing is that it’s fine when you are paying an older guy to provide leadership and produce in spurts like Perry is, when you are paying him less than a $1m. Hell, I’d even pay Perry $1.5m. You can’t be paying a guy $7.8m if you aren’t getting that production. It would be one thing to have Weber with a young stud like Hughes or Makar (or Sergechev 🙄), who are providing more production for their salary and have them benefit from learning from Weber. But we don’t have that and badly need another dman other than Petry that is a consistent producer.

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1 minute ago, Commandant said:

Or we move Drouin to clear a good chunk of cap space

 

Could be best for him to leave Montreal and the pressure too.

I wouldn’t mind that - we still need to know if pressure is the issue (probably is), but I would want some value back for him.  Especially give. What we gave up. If we left him exposed as some of the tv analysts suggested l, I’m pretty sure he’d be picked up. I also think that Drouin would be much easier to move during one of his streaks than Weber will be.

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17 minutes ago, Commandant said:

RNH gets 8 years at 5.125 million AAV.  

 

That shows the Danault contract should come in under that.

 

On an 8-year deal, sure.  The eight years were put in to lower the AAV a bit.  But I doubt anyone's willing to give him that much term.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree it should come in under that but Nugent-Hopkins getting a contract to take him to retirement with the organization that he has been with for a decade (that had already given him a big payday) is a different scenario than Danault trying to cash in on what will be his best (only?) shot at a big payday.

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34 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

On an 8-year deal, sure.  The eight years were put in to lower the AAV a bit.  But I doubt anyone's willing to give him that much term.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree it should come in under that but Nugent-Hopkins getting a contract to take him to retirement with the organization that he has been with for a decade (that had already given him a big payday) is a different scenario than Danault trying to cash in on what will be his best (only?) shot at a big payday.

 

I just think that this makes the 6 year 30 million offer that Danault turned down seem like a very friendly deal for Danault. 

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Andre Tournigay will be announced as Arizona Head Coach tomorrow. 

 

Good news for the Habs that there will be another coach who speaks french and has NHL experience when we eventually need a new coach. 

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On 6/29/2021 at 10:28 AM, Commandant said:

 

I just think that this makes the 6 year 30 million offer that Danault turned down seem like a very friendly deal for Danault. 

 

I’d guess that Danault’s agent advised him really, really badly…it seems like a complete failure to acknowledge how the pandemic changed the economic parameters of the league.

 

On 6/22/2021 at 11:20 AM, Commandant said:

Or we move Drouin to clear a good chunk of cap space

 

Could be best for him to leave Montreal and the pressure too.

 

I doubt anyone will surrender any asset for Drouin, but I can totally see Seattle picking him up, provided it’s not a substance-abuse issue. And without question he should go unprotected.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I doubt anyone will surrender any asset for Drouin, but I can totally see Seattle picking him up, provided it’s not a substance-abuse issue. And without question he should go unprotected.

 

I hope/pray Seattle rolls the dice on him.  It would be a double win: not losing someone we actually want to keep, and being rid of Drouin and his bloated salary.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I’d guess that Danault’s agent advised him really, really badly…it seems like a complete failure to acknowledge how the pandemic changed the economic parameters of the league....

It certainly seems they read the marketplace poorly

 

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... I doubt anyone will surrender any asset for Drouin ... 

I think "any" is harsh ... there are always GMs/coaches who feel that a player with skills can be "fixed" ... but I would agree that the return won't be anything to make fans forget losing Sergachev ... may even require habs to retain some caplet (say $750K - $1M to make a deal, retaining more could increase the return).

 

FOR EXAMPLE ONLY, I could see Edmonton being interested (this season the drop from McDavid to Draisaitl in assists was 19, the drop from there to RNH was 34 (with 19 in 52 games ... only two other forwards had 10 or more ... in 3/4 of a season this year (44 games) JD had 21 and his average is 34a/82gm with the Habs ... 

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