Feb 02, Habs VS Canucks - 7;00pm

[hab29RETIRED]

11 hours ago, tomh009 said:

A six-year contract ... we could then potentially be spending $20M+/year by the end of that on our top three centres (if I have my math right, both Suzuki and Kotkaniemi would be UFA-eligible in 2026-2027).

And Suzuki already is looking like he is worth more than Danault. If Danault is signed for  $6m, will be hard to resign Suzuki fir a lower amount if he is over a PPG pace this season and next season, given what other centres with similar numbers signed for out of ELC’s.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Well, all I can say is that Danault is a huge piece of this team. If we let him walk, the team will take a step back. 

 

I also wonder about his contract demands. They sound like pre-Covid expectations to me. The market for expensive UFAs is limited these days. Perhaps, when all is said and done, he will end up signing for a bit less than we think.

[tomh009]

8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Well, all I can say is that Danault is a huge piece of this team. If we let him walk, the team will take a step back. 

 

I also wonder about his contract demands. They sound like pre-Covid expectations to me. The market for expensive UFAs is limited these days. Perhaps, when all is said and done, he will end up signing for a bit less than we think.

Agree on both counts. How big a step back is a question as Evans is closing the gap so far this year (but then we still need to fill 4C). And Danault's expectations/demands are a big unknown. I expect this will not be resolved until after the end of the season.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Yeah the fact that Danault is relied upon so heavily to play against top lines makes things tricky. 
 

I hope all of this is irrelevant because Danault will lower his demands. We can’t afford to pay him 6 million. 
 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

One thing’s for sure: I let Tatar walk and resign Danault, rather than the reverse, provided Danault’s demands are within the realm of reason. As Commandant says, it is a hell of a lot easier to replace a W than a C.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

One thing’s for sure: I let Tatar walk and resign Danault, rather than the reverse, provided Danault’s demands are within the realm of reason. As Commandant says, it is a hell of a lot easier to replace a W than a C.

For sure and I expect Tatar gone

 

I wonder if MB can convince Price to be exposed to Kraken. An extra 10 million a year would help. Allen and Primeau can tandem 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

3 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

For sure and I expect Tatar gone

 

I wonder if MB can convince Price to be exposed to Kraken. An extra 10 million a year would help. Allen and Primeau can tandem 

 

No offence, but don’t be silly.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

No offence, but don’t be silly.

I don’t think it’s silly at all. 10 million is a lot of space and while Price can be lights out good he can be equally as bad. 
 

Allen looks solid and Price looks well like Price. Shaky as hell at times and brilliant at times. 
 

im not trying to create controversy but Allen’s stats are much better than Price’s so far this season. 
 

Is Price so elite that he justifies that big salary? He hasn’t been incredibly good since 2015 and routinely looks awful for long stretches every season. 
 

IDK but I think Toffoli and Anderson cost the same as Price. I think the value of adding 2 good pieces ( in this example it would be Tatar and Armia and comfortably signing Danault)is greater than the difference Price’s performance over Allen might be. 

[dlbalr]

45 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Is Price so elite that he justifies that big salary? He hasn’t been incredibly good since 2015 and routinely looks awful for long stretches every season. 

 

This question is what ultimately makes the idea 'silly'.  If it's a bad-value contract for the Habs, why does Seattle want to take it on when they could get other goaltenders for a fraction of the price?  I understand the logic of going with Allen and Primeau to free up money to re-sign others in this scenario but I don't see why Seattle does this.

 

I also don't see why Price would waive his NMC.  I know Seattle is close to Vancouver so there's a small possible family benefit but Price has been waiting for years for the Habs to be competitive/contenders again.  If this is indeed the year that it happens, it's hard to see him wanting to leave just as what he has been waiting for actually happens.

 

If Montreal went to Price asking him to waive his NMC, I suspect their argument would be to do it to ensure they keep Allen to keep the tandem intact since there's such a minimal chance he'd actually be picked. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

6 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

This question is what ultimately makes the idea 'silly'.  If it's a bad-value contract for the Habs, why does Seattle want to take it on when they could get other goaltenders for a fraction of the price?  I understand the logic of going with Allen and Primeau to free up money to re-sign others in this scenario but I don't see why Seattle does this.

 

I also don't see why Price would waive his NMC.  I know Seattle is close to Vancouver so there's a small possible family benefit but Price has been waiting for years for the Habs to be competitive/contenders again.  If this is indeed the year that it happens, it's hard to see him wanting to leave just as what he has been waiting for actually happens.

 

If Montreal went to Price asking him to waive his NMC, I suspect their argument would be to do it to ensure they keep Allen to keep the tandem intact since there's such a minimal chance he'd actually be picked. 

Those are all valid points and Price certainly determines his own destiny. 
 

Why do the Kraken do this? Because Price is a celebrity, a veteran, a leader, the face of their franchise. Not to mention that if Vegas is any indication then Kraken might be a good team and Price would surely be the best that they could do in goal. 

[dlbalr]

4 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Those are all valid points and Price certainly determines his own destiny. 
 

Why do the Kraken do this? Because Price is a celebrity, a veteran, a leader, the face of their franchise. Not to mention that if Vegas is any indication then Kraken might be a good team and Price would surely be the best that they could do in goal. 

 

He might be the best option on paper but would they be better with a starter making half that amount or less, giving them enough money to add another impact forward or defenceman?  It's the same argument you're making as to why Montreal would ponder it.  I don't think they need a true franchise face.  I know Fleury was the closest to one in Vegas but three years later, they couldn't give him away when they needed to free up money.  If Seattle is following that path, they'd probably hit a similar issue in terms of not being able to afford that expensive of a goalie tandem.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It's silly because

 

1. It's completely moot. The team is not going to give its franchise player away - for nothing! - and no other NHL team would do that either.

 

2. Allen is not a Price substitute. Allen's history shows that he performs poorly as a #1 and very well as a #1A. Allen-Primeau is not a serious model. We would have to go out and add some other #1A G, eating significantly into the $10 mil saved.

 

3. Price is still capable of being a stud who can offer top-tier NHL goaltending for extended stretches. He is far from washed up.

 

We FINALLY seem to have a team that may actually be a contender. Instead of rocking it to its very core, can we at least enjoy it for a year or two?

[Prime Minister Koivu]

10 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

It's silly because

 

1. It's completely moot. The team is not going to give its franchise player away - for nothing! - and no other NHL team would do that either.

 

2. Allen is not a Price substitute. Allen's history shows that he performs poorly as a #1 and very well as a #1A. Allen-Primeau is not a serious model. We would have to go out and add some other #1A G, eating significantly into the $10 mil saved.

 

3. Price is still capable of being a stud who can offer top-tier NHL goaltending for extended stretches.

 

We FINALLY seem to have a team that may actually be a contender. Instead of rocking it to its very core, can we at least enjoy it for a year or two?

It likely is a moot point cause it won’t happen 

 

We do finally have a contender but that has little to do with Price. Having a deep team and a great back up is why. 
 

Im certainly not anti Price but he is no where near an elite goalie anymore. His stretches of brilliance are balanced with equal stretches of complete crap and that has been true every season since 2015. 
 

Allen has outperformed Price so far this season. 

[DON]

59 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Allen has outperformed Price so far this season. 

Come on, they have played all of 10 games between them so far and Price looked suspect on what...all of 1 or 2 goals. 

Any goalie can have a couple good games, which Allen has had I agree on that and is huge upgrade on back ups letting in soft goals every outing.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

4 minutes ago, DON said:

Come on, they have played all of 10 games between them so far and Price looked suspect on what...all of 1 or 2 goals. 

Any goalie can have a couple good games, which Allen has had I agree on that and is huge upgrade on back ups letting in soft goals every outing.

 Come on Don

 

No Habs fan can tell me that Price has not been absolutely awful as much as he has been absolutely amazing in the last 5 years. With most of his play time in the average category. 
 

Im not trying to dump Price cause he stinks, cause he doesn’t. 
 

Im looking for possible avenues for cap relief - nothing more. Due to cap we will have no choice but to loose a talented winger. It’s possible that Caufield is ready but we don’t know yet. 
 

Price’s salary is equivalent to two talented wingers and now that we have a guy like Allen it’s reasonable to ask if two talented wingers are more valuable to Montreal than one Price. 
 

As Others have said this move is unlikely but I think it is worth exploring 

[hab29RETIRED]

6 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Agree on both counts. How big a step back is a question as Evans is closing the gap so far this year (but then we still need to fill 4C). And Danault's expectations/demands are a big unknown. I expect this will not be resolved until after the end of the season.

I think we can’t afford to move him this year - he is necessary for the playoffs. Having said that I don’t see how we can afford him next year, if he is indeed looking forward for a long term deal with a salary in the $6m range.

[hab29RETIRED]

6 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

One thing’s for sure: I let Tatar walk and resign Danault, rather than the reverse, provided Danault’s demands are within the realm of reason. As Commandant says, it is a hell of a lot easier to replace a W than a C.

If Suzuki continues at his pace (which I’m hoping he does), Can we even afford either of them, if Danault is looking for a long-term deal around $6m and Tatar is looking for even 4.5m for more than two years? 
 

 

[hab29RETIRED]

4 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I don’t think it’s silly at all. 10 million is a lot of space and while Price can be lights out good he can be equally as bad. 
 

Allen looks solid and Price looks well like Price. Shaky as hell at times and brilliant at times. 
 

im not trying to create controversy but Allen’s stats are much better than Price’s so far this season. 
 

Is Price so elite that he justifies that big salary? He hasn’t been incredibly good since 2015 and routinely looks awful for long stretches every season. 
 

IDK but I think Toffoli and Anderson cost the same as Price. I think the value of adding 2 good pieces ( in this example it would be Tatar and Armia and comfortably signing Danault)is greater than the difference Price’s performance over Allen might be. 

I think you need to have a good  backup to reduce Price’s workload, but there is no way that paying a around $15m for goaltending is sustainable. 
 

for that reason, I don’t mind the idea of moving Price, but only IF we could get VALUE for him. But no way in hell do I want to go with Allen and Premieau even if are able to get good return for Price.  Premieau may turn out to be great, but I don’t ever want to do the Thibault type of dice roll again.  Allen already has proven he can’t be relied upon as starter, and Premieau has proven squat to date.

 

 

[hab29RETIRED]

3 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

This question is what ultimately makes the idea 'silly'.  If it's a bad-value contract for the Habs, why does Seattle want to take it on when they could get other goaltenders for a fraction of the price?  I understand the logic of going with Allen and Primeau to free up money to re-sign others in this scenario but I don't see why Seattle does this.

 

I also don't see why Price would waive his NMC.  I know Seattle is close to Vancouver so there's a small possible family benefit but Price has been waiting for years for the Habs to be competitive/contenders again.  If this is indeed the year that it happens, it's hard to see him wanting to leave just as what he has been waiting for actually happens.

 

If Montreal went to Price asking him to waive his NMC, I suspect their argument would be to do it to ensure they keep Allen to keep the tandem intact since there's such a minimal chance he'd actually be picked. 

I think the Kraken would pick Price up without even the honking about it. I just think it would be dumb to even consider exposing him (assuming he was willing), if the replacement plan is Allen and Premieau.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

I think the Kraken would pick Price up without even the honking about it. I just think it would be dumb to even consider exposing him (assuming he was willing), if the replacement plan is Allen and Premieau.

 

I agree with you entirely. If we get a grade trade offer for Price and he is willing to waive his NMC, then of course you consider it. But just throwing him away on waivers? I don't know if even Reggie Houle ever committed such a negligent act of asset mismanagement.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

It's silly because

 

1. It's completely moot. The team is not going to give its franchise player away - for nothing! - and no other NHL team would do that either.

 

2. Allen is not a Price substitute. Allen's history shows that he performs poorly as a #1 and very well as a #1A. Allen-Primeau is not a serious model. We would have to go out and add some other #1A G, eating significantly into the $10 mil saved.

 

3. Price is still capable of being a stud who can offer top-tier NHL goaltending for extended stretches. He is far from washed up.

 

We FINALLY seem to have a team that may actually be a contender. Instead of rocking it to its very core, can we at least enjoy it for a year or two?

1. Actually  - we already did it with Roy. Thibault, Rucinsky and Kovelnko pretty much amounted to nothing, compared to what we gave up.

2. 100% agree

3. partly agree. I think at this stage, we can’t play price 60-70 games a year. We also can’t afford to pay $15m in the future for goaltending.  If we move him, I want a solid replacement.

 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Come on, they have played all of 10 games between them so far and Price looked suspect on what...all of 1 or 2 goals. 

Any goalie can have a couple good games, which Allen has had I agree on that and is huge upgrade on back ups letting in soft goals every outing.

Hey, Ken Dryden was washed up in 78. We could have won with Bunny Laracque and we were lucky Dryden retired after that 79’ cup🙄

[hab29RETIRED]

5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I agree with you entirely. If we get a grade trade offer for Price and he is willing to waive his NMC, then of course you consider it. But just throwing him away on waivers? I don't know if even Reggie Houle ever committed such a negligent act of asset mismanagement.

Ummm, there was this guy Roy that was moved for less than a bag of cups by Houle, so we could keep an narcissistic alcoholic coach with anger management issues happy. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Spending 15 million on goal is a tough handicap. 
 

If Allen and Primeau don’t cut it then that is a problem and solving one problem by creating another is useless. 
 

I think the poor asset management is spending 15 million on goal. The 10 million dollar goalie needs a 1a starter as his back up.  I would consider dumping his contract as a win. 
 

After this season of course 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

45 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Ummm, there was this guy Roy that was moved for less than a bag of cups by Houle, so we could keep an narcissistic alcoholic coach with anger management issues happy. 

 

Please, I am fully familiar with the events you describe! 🤮 Like you, I suffered through them. But at least that idiot Houle got back a legitimate NHL goalie and one second-line forward for Roy. Dumping Price on waivers amounts to getting literally nothing back for the greatest Hab since Roy.

 

(Now I know, one can say "well, we'd in effect be getting back $10 mil in cap space to be used for other players." True, but one of those guys would have to be a #1A goalie; and if Allen is going to be promoted into Price's replacement, he will likely ask for more than $3 mil per on his next contract, which would kick in after next year. So between Allen and his replacement, we might end up with, oh, $5-6 mil to play with in total. The whole thing amounts to trading Price for a $5-6 million player - about the same level of return as Ruscinsky/Thibault, at best).