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28 minutes ago, Commandant said:

CJ and Muller were unable to fix the clear special teams problems, both the PK and PP, and that led to Today's move.  It's really that simple. 

 

This team is good 5v5 and is being killed by poor special teams.

At the moment, 5v5 play has been suffering as well, with Julien getting everyone to (pass to and) shoot from the blue line. The shooting percentage has plummeted.

 

There is work to be done in both areas.

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I’m happy about this and I hope we go back to in your face forecheck hockey.    I also hope the brutal decisions like no KK in OT are done   Also looking forward to better lines and D

I sure as &@%#!!! hope so. It was Julien’s refusal or inability to change the D, the lines, PP, PK, etcetera that got him —deservedly— fired. I feel bad for CJ but I love this move. 

HOLY SH*T. This is a MAJOR shocker - most organizations would wait longer. (Although I guess you can argue that timing has to be pro-rated in a shortened season).   I have a lot of respect f

4 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

I agree Price’s play has been a factor, but the team giving up grade-A chances frequently doesn’t help.

Since the slump started, the most drastic difference (apart from us losing games) has been the lack of scoring. And that is a result of the shooting percentage dropping from 12.8% to 5.6%. That's a huge cliff! Arpon Basu pointed out that in the slump, five of the Habs' top seven shooters (by the number of shots) were D-men.

 

Shooting everything from the point is a low-percentage game, and the Habs have no longer been driving for the net.

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5 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

At the moment, 5v5 play has been suffering as well, with Julien getting everyone to (pass to and) shoot from the blue line. The shooting percentage has plummeted.

 

There is work to be done in both areas.

 

Shooting percentage early was at an unsustainable level.  It was always going to drop some.  We are still outchancing teams at 5v5, including the Leafs on Saturday.

 

12.8% was never sustainable and neither is 5.6% both are aberrations of small sample sizes. 

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37 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Shooting percentage early was at an unsustainable level.  It was always going to drop some.  We are still outchancing teams at 5v5, including the Leafs on Saturday.

 

12.8% was never sustainable and neither is 5.6% both are aberrations of small sample sizes. 

I fully agree that 12.8% is unsustainable.

 

But the super-low 5.6% is partly driven by Julien's heavy reliance of low-percentage shots from the point. This is not how the team was playing in the first ten games. Did Julien adjust the game plans because he thought this would work better? Maybe. But, regardless, the scoring (even 5v5) has fallen off a cliff as a result.

 

My point is simply that while the power play is completely inept at the moment, there is work to be done 5v5 as well.

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5 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I fully agree that 12.8% is unsustainable.

 

But the super-low 5.6% is partly driven by Julien's heavy reliance of low-percentage shots from the point. This is not how the team was playing in the first ten games. Did Julien adjust the game plans because he thought this would work better? Maybe. But, regardless, the scoring (even 5v5) has fallen off a cliff as a result.

 

My point is simply that while the power play is completely inept at the moment, there is work to be done 5v5 as well.

 

The 5v5 numbers aren't dropping off for xG though, and the heat maps aren't backing up your assertion that there are less quality chances than before.  At least not in the team's play inside the offensive zone. 

 

One are that has been stiffled though is the chances off the rush have been lessened.  The transition game has fallen off a bit and that's an area to look at.  They aren't getting the 2 on 1s and 3 on 2s as earlier in the year.

But the actual play inside the zone, its pretty much the same when the Habs do control the puck in the offensive zone. 

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1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

The play of Price is a huge factor in the collapse of this team. He needs to earn his pay. No coaching change will fix that, unless its a goalie coach.

Price's game was weak before Therrien was fired and then Carey's game picked up ... hopefully part of his problems this season has been a question of confidence in the HC messing with his head ... 

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I expect that the team will have success and start rolling and that Ducharme will get a longer-term contract before the season's out.

I expect the team to pick-up as well but that management will wait until they see what happens in the playoffs before extending Ducharme ... it may even impact MB's future.

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4 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Conceptually I would agree ... unless Carey needs more games to get his game back (i.e., fewer games messed up his mojo/ego) ... then a slight shift may be warranted

 

EDIT: Allen is on pace for 32 games if this was an 82 game season ... don't think Carey has played as few as 50 games in a non-injury season since Halak ... he might not be happy

Sorry, dont care about needing more action to work out his poor play. Allen is doing fine with less and maybe motivation of losing starter role is what Price needs.

Team needs first isnt it?

 

Can someone ask Julien why he had Danault (0g) taking offensive faceoff in OT? Then later in shift Danault dumps puck into corner? 3 on 3 isnt a dump and chase game.

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5 minutes ago, DON said:

Sorry, dont care about needing more action to work out his poor play. Allen is doing fine with less and maybe motivation of losing starter role is what Price needs.

Team needs first isnt it?

 

100%. I'm as big a Price fan as any, but if he has been sulking because of slight reduction in workload, then he is not a team player and should be stapled to the bench until he grows up. I am also tired of arguments like, "oh, maybe he needs more games to find his mojo." Players should EARN THEIR FRIGGING ICE TIME and that includes goalies.

 

This is the second coach Price gets fired. Time for him to put up or piss off.

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7 minutes ago, DON said:

Sorry, dont care about needing more action to work out his poor play. Allen is doing fine with less and maybe motivation of losing starter role is what Price needs ...

Understood, and it could well be ... that is the $64,000 Question that the coaches need to answer ... but I don't have confidence that Allen will continue to flourish if he assumes the weight of the mantle of being the clear cut No.1 ... Habs are going to need Carey to be CAREY to have any real success this season, especially in the playoffs ... question is how to get him there ... hope DD et all can figure it our

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5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

100%. I'm as big a Price fan as any, but if he has been sulking because of slight reduction in workload, then he is not a team player and should be stapled to the bench until he grows up. I am also tired of arguments like, "oh, maybe he needs more games to find his mojo." Players should EARN THEIR FRIGGING ICE TIME and that includes goalies.

 

This is the second coach Price gets fired. Time for him to put up or piss off.

 

Amen.  Price has always been a bit of a headcase.  When you look at the stellar saves he made last night, coupled with the absolute dogsh!t softies he let in, it's clear that the problem is between his ears and not something physical.  My first move, were I Ducharme, would be to give Allen the next 3 starts, and direct Carey to mandatory sessions with a sports psychologist.  Enough is enough; find your focus and play consistent hockey already.

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15 minutes ago, DON said:

Can someone ask Julien why he had Danault (0g) taking offensive faceoff in OT? Then later in shift Danault dumps puck into corner? 3 on 3 isnt a dump and chase game.

Yeah. But it's a choice of four centres. Let's rule Evans out immediately. Suzuki has really struggled on face-offs this year, around 40%. Kotkaniemi is closer to 50% but has not been in Julien's good books. So, Danault it was. Again.

 

It will be very interesting to see the Ducharme approach. I am hoping for not only earning (goalie) starts and (skater) ice time, but also earning key assignments -- like the OT faceoffs.

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21 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

100%. I'm as big a Price fan as any, but if he has been sulking because of slight reduction in workload, then he is not a team player and should be stapled to the bench until he grows up. I am also tired of arguments like, "oh, maybe he needs more games to find his mojo." Players should EARN THEIR FRIGGING ICE TIME and that includes goalies.

 

This is the second coach Price gets fired. Time for him to put up or piss off.

 

Wait, where is the evidence that he is sulking and trying to get Julien fired?

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9 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Yeah. But it's a choice of four centres. Let's rule Evans out immediately. Suzuki has really struggled on face-offs this year, around 40%. Kotkaniemi is closer to 50% but has not been in Julien's good books. So, Danault it was. Again.

 

It will be very interesting to see the Ducharme approach. I am hoping for not only earning (goalie) starts and (skater) ice time, but also earning key assignments -- like the OT faceoffs.


That is cutting your nose off to spite your face. 
 

Maybe DD can come up with a plan to still use KK and Suzuki properly while they learn faceoffs 👍 instead of using Danault who can’t currently do anything offensive. 
 

 

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8 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Wait, where is the evidence that he is sulking and trying to get Julien fired?

No evidence except poor play, and the analogy with what he did under Therrien. Note that I started my post by saying "IF he is sulking..."

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30 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

That is cutting your nose off to spite your face. 
 

Maybe DD can come up with a plan to still use KK and Suzuki properly while they learn faceoffs 👍 instead of using Danault who can’t currently do anything offensive.

An improvement in Suzuki face-off skills would be very good. At the moment we are losing offensive zone PP faceoffs and OT faceoffs. We need Suzuki for his skills but since he plays C he needs to be credible in the faceoff circle, too.

 

Let's hope that the new team will work on improving this for all three young centres. Hiring a coach would be ideal but, really, there are not so many different things you can do in the faceoff circle. Video, training, strength, repetition ... it will come.

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17 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

An improvement in Suzuki face-off skills would be very good. At the moment we are losing offensive zone PP faceoffs and OT faceoffs. We need Suzuki for his skills but since he plays C he needs to be credible in the faceoff circle, too.

 

Let's hope that the new team will work on improving this for all three young centres. Hiring a coach would be ideal but, really, there are not so many different things you can do in the faceoff circle. Video, training, strength, repetition ... it will come.


That’s why Danault keeps getting played in every situation. 
 

It stifled offence and slowed the growth of young centres. 
 

Have a plan to recover the puck and keep playing them even if they loose the faceoffs 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

No evidence except poor play, and the analogy with what he did under Therrien. Note that I started my post by saying "IF he is sulking..."

 

I dont think it's price.  Its the penalty kill.

 

 

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PK is a killer, yes. But Allen is .900 on 4v5 PK, compared to Price's .841. On 5v5, it's .952 Allen and .920 Price.

 

There is a difference in both cases.

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6 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

All I can say about Burrows is that in Vancouver he is widely regarded as a sure-fire coaching prospect. Of course, so were Muller and Carbo. But he's like that - a former player who strikes everyone who deals with him as coaching material. Two years of AHL marinading, so bringing him up does not seem unreasonable.

 

I have to say, I'm a bit worried about Burrows.  He was not the lead assistant in Laval and doesn't have two full years of coaching experience at any level.  If they were bringing him up into the extra coach role (the one Ducharme held), that would've made more sense to me.  But when the options are limited to who can be added in a season like this, they couldn't really do that.  I wouldn't be shocked if he moves into that role next year though rather than being one of the primary assistants.  I don't think there are many teams that have a player who's only three years removed from being a full-time NHL player in a top-two assistant role.  There are a few but not many.

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25 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

PK is a killer, yes. But Allen is .900 on 4v5 PK, compared to Price's .841. On 5v5, it's .952 Allen and .920 Price.

 

There is a difference in both cases.

 

 

This is fascinating 🤨 

 

Price faces significantly tougher shots on PK - Why?

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19 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

I have to say, I'm a bit worried about Burrows.  He was not the lead assistant in Laval and doesn't have two full years of coaching experience at any level.  If they were bringing him up into the extra coach role (the one Ducharme held), that would've made more sense to me.  But when the options are limited to who can be added in a season like this, they couldn't really do that.  I wouldn't be shocked if he moves into that role next year though rather than being one of the primary assistants.  I don't think there are many teams that have a player who's only three years removed from being a full-time NHL player in a top-two assistant role.  There are a few but not many.

 

It seems like a valid concern. Despite his rep with the refs, Burrows seems to have a halo around him among hockey people. That may partly be "Vancouver" talking, but it seems to go beyond that. Presumably MB has loved what he's seen of the guy. 

 

12 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

 

This is fascinating 🤨 

 

Price faces significantly tougher shots on PK - Why?

 

It is absolutely bewildering.

 

I kinda wonder whether CJ would still be coach if he'd taken the bull by the horns and fired the assistants responsible for the PK and PP. Of course, we seldom hear of a coach firing his assistants, especially mid-season, so I guess that would have been a real long-shot. (There's also the problem of the head coach having ultimate responsibility for what his assistants get up to; it's not like they're off implementing systems without his approval).

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57 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

 

This is fascinating 🤨 

 

Price faces significantly tougher shots on PK - Why?

It's different 5v5 as well. Absoiutely bizarre.

 

So, Price has faced CGY, EDM, OTT x2, TOR x4, VAN x3

Allen has faced CGY, EDM x2, OTT x2, VAN x2

 

The main difference seems to be that Julien put Price in net for all four Toronto games, otherwise almost the same (Allen has one more vs Edmonton, Price one more vs Vancouver). Do the Toronto games alone explain the huge difference in heatmaps, and the gap in save percentage?

 

Price's sub-.900 games were TOR, VAN, OTT, TOR, TOR, OTT -- three of them against the Leafs. Allen had one against Vancouver.

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