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Apr. 3rd, Senators vs. Canadiens - 19h00 EDT


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11 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree that you leave Weber exposed, if Seattle does take him then you have some significant cap room that can be used for a younger player, hopefully used smartly. The defence does need to be rebuilt, it is not good enough.  The team is not good enough yet, I hope MB doesn't chase at the deadline by giving up young propsects/picks for a player that will make us marginally better. I am willing to be more patient and let our young players develop. This team is just not good enough to win this year (although miracles can happen).  

 

I hear you, but I’m not sure we have a critical mass of elite young players. In fact, our best young players are Suzuki and Romanov, who may or may not turn out to be elite, and maybe one more potentially elite kid in the system (Caulfield). So it’s not as though we can look 2-3 years into the future and go, “yeh, there is the nucleus of a contender.”

 

What we have instead is an organization whose elite players are all in their mid-30s, and relatively few stud prospects/young players. That’s why the current “window” seems to me to be quite key. They need to win now, pretty much. It will take some real managerial magic to build a contender from a pool of young talent that looks fairly modest relative to, say, Vancouver’s. I think the honest projection for the next decade of the Montreal Canadiens is continued “bubble” mediocrity, unless we can somehow find a handful of really good young prospects/players.

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Weber has clearly declined, and significantly in the defensive end of the ice.    The xGA stats show this.   The shots he is giving up are coming from high danger areas more and more. 

Let's keep the winning streak going   Tkachuk - Norris - Paul Stutzle - Tierney - Batherson Dzingel - Bishop - Bro

Ahhhh, ok. Didn't see the speculation emoji...  

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37 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

Sure. Now who's your RD pick to replace Weber as a whole on the ice and off the ice ?

 

Dougie Hamilton ? (will probably not hit UFA market)
Adam Larsson ?
Zach Bogosian ?
Brandon Montour ?
Michael Stone ?
Ian Cole ?
David Savard ?
Alex Goligoski ?

Jason Demers ?
Erik Gustafsson ?
Samuel Morin ?
Kevan Miller ?
Steven Kampfer ?

Alex Biega ?
Brandon Smith ?
Erik Gudbranson ?
Sami Vatanen ?
Tony DeAngelo ????

 

Off the ice?

 

Im not spending 8m on what he brings off the ice.  Thats crazy.

 

The leadership is a nice bonus, but the on-ice production has to match the contract cause you can find a corey perry or joe thornton or other vet to bring leadership at a vet minimum or close to it.

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1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I hear you, but I’m not sure we have a critical mass of elite young players. In fact, our best young players are Suzuki and Romanov, who may or may not turn out to be elite, and maybe one more potentially elite kid in the system (Caulfield). So it’s not as though we can look 2-3 years into the future and go, “yeh, there is the nucleus of a contender.”

 

What we have instead is an organization whose elite players are all in their mid-30s, and relatively few stud prospects/young players. That’s why the current “window” seems to me to be quite key. They need to win now, pretty much. It will take some real managerial magic to build a contender from a pool of young talent that looks fairly modest relative to, say, Vancouver’s.

 

I am little more optimistic about the prospect pool, Caufield could be great (sure hope), and on defence I think a group of Norlinder, Struble, Harris and Guhle is pretty good, the Habs need 2 of those to work out. Of course what's really needed is KK and Suzuki to develop, they have shown flashes this year but need to more consistent. I hope MB doesn't take the attitude that they need to win now, that could be dangerous to the future. 

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11 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Off the ice?

 

Im not spending 8m on what he brings off the ice.  Thats crazy.

 

The leadership is a nice bonus, but the on-ice production has to match the contract cause you can find a corey perry or joe thornton or other vet to bring leadership at a vet minimum or close to it.

Bringing old farts with 1-2 years left will provide some leadership, sure,  but it's not the same as a true leader who's been there from the beginning of their careers, who spent several seasons with the kids, watching them grow up as players and as men. 


If the goal is to set up a team that will be contender for a decade, you need several of them in a long span.

 

Gallagher is one of them,  Weber is one of them. 
Is Price one of them ?

Now we added Perry and Staal,  definitely the good kind of players for this, but they are near the end. 

The extra 2M$  for what,  10-12 less points  is easily compensated by having your kids growing up as real pros instead of becoming Galchenyuk or Domi.

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I don't think anyone would argue that leadership is critically important. It sure is. The question is whether Weber brings enough to the table to justify 8 million/year if his play is declining? A couple years ago he was worth every penny, not so sure now. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I don't think anyone would argue that leadership is critically important. It sure is. The question is whether Weber brings enough to the table to justify 8 million/year if his play is declining? A couple years ago he was worth every penny, not so sure now. 

That was always the risk ... 

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1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

Sure. Now who's your RD pick to replace Weber as a whole on the ice and off the ice ?

Off the ice? Jeepers, how many leaders do you need? And once players hit old-timer softball age (which he has), is time to reevaluate their role.

To replace Weber is an off-season item...that of course isnt happening anyways but, unless Seattle has brain cramp and also believes your leadership value in him, he is going nowhere anytime soon.

Also why i havent even considered who will replace him. I just hope coaching staff regulates his minutes and healthy scratch's him once in a while (unlikely but might be best for him).

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1 minute ago, DON said:

Off the ice? Jeepers, how many leaders do you need? And once players hit old-timer softball age (which he has), is time to reevaluate their role.

To replace Weber is an off-season item...that of course isnt happening anyways but, unless Seattle has brain cramp and also believes your leadership value in him, he is going nowhere anytime soon.

Also why i havent even considered who will replace him. I just hope coaching staff regulates his minutes and healthy scratch's him once in a while (unlikely but might be best for him).

 

Agreed. That's why I think it's almost a no brainer not to protect him. I doubt Seattle takes him (which means you can protect someone else) and if they do then you have all that extra cap room. 

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3 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Agreed. That's why I think it's almost a no brainer not to protect him. I doubt Seattle takes him (which means you can protect someone else) and if they do then you have all that extra cap room. 

I agree ... but it is a polarizing question, no middle ground ... doubt debate will change anyone's mind

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10 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Agreed. That's why I think it's almost a no brainer not to protect him. I doubt Seattle takes him (which means you can protect someone else) and if they do then you have all that extra cap room. 

If he's willing to waive his NMC ...

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6 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

If he's willing to waive his NMC ...

He doesn't have a NMC

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35 minutes ago, DON said:

Off the ice? Jeepers, how many leaders do you need?

I'd say  4 or 5.

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49 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

He doesn't have a NMC

Duh! That's right, he waived it in the Subban trade.

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42 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Duh! That's right, he waived it in the Subban trade.

 

He never had one to waive. 

 

Nashville didn't have to honour the clause when they matched Philly's offer sheet because he was not eligible for such a clause until 1 year into the contract, and Poile choose not to honour it.

 

If he had a clause and waived it, he'd still have it, you only waive for 1 time only for a trade, not get rid of it forever. 

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7 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

lol. if you feel  Allen has more chance to be picked than Weber ?!?!? which Dmen are you so afraid of losing instead of Weber ?   Let me guess... Kulak ?

I wouldn't mind one second if they chose Edmunson or Chiarot.  They're redondant and suck most of the time.

Not too many teams are going to be willing to pick up a guy at almost $8m, which is around double what he is worth based on performance. And no, I don’t think it make sense to pay an extra $4m for leadership ability.  Especially at a time we have a flat cap and revenues are down. We’d be lucky if Seattle picked him.  The only scenario I think they would take him, if they think they could move him to another team by retaining 50% of his salary in return for good picks or young assets.

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On 4/9/2021 at 4:15 PM, hab29RETIRED said:

Not too many teams are going to be willing to pick up a guy at almost $8m, which is around double what he is worth based on performance. And no, I don’t think it make sense to pay an extra $4m for leadership ability.  Especially at a time we have a flat cap and revenues are down. We’d be lucky if Seattle picked him.  The only scenario I think they would take him, if they think they could move him to another team by retaining 50% of his salary in return for good picks or young assets.

Yes exactly.  This should be Plan A.

 

Losing a player like Shea Weber without any return should be the very last resort.

And just to be clear, cuz  I just read myself and I thing I didn't say this :  I don't mind his leadership gone if we have something good in return.

A good return for Weber >  Weber at 8M$ declining but with leadership on the team

but

Weber at 8M$ declining but with good leadership > Losing him for nothing

Addition with substraction is only good with POS who #### your locker room up.  Not with Weber's kind of players.

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People are really blowing up this leadership thing as a detriment to Weber’s profile. Weber brings leadership, that’s true. One can tell simply by the way he handles specific situations, the words he speaks, as well as his actions. With that being said, who is saying that leaderhship is the only quality Weber brings? The only people I hear saying that, are those who are trying to bring Weber down. And then we compound that reality by coming up with arbitrary “values” that Weber’s leadership “costs”. 
 

“My personal opinion is that Weber’s leadership accounts for 50% of his human being self” says #1

 

”No. No. Weber’s leadership actually accounts for 6 million out of his 8 million cap hit” says # 2

 

Shea Weber is 42nd in scoring amongst defensemen which puts him easily inside the top 62 top pairing defensemen in the league.

 

He has a similar amount of points to other declining defensemen such as Rasmus Dahlin, Vince Dunn and Erik Karlsson. 
 

He also has the exact same amount of goals, assists, and points as declining defenseman Matias Eklholm, whom many Habs fabs are hoping for.


What’s further ignored is that Weber can have a 3 point game, and jump into the top 30. He could also just as easily actually have better years ahead of him in the future, or even be injured at the moment for those of you who are really analyzing him through a magnifying glass. Finally, give him a suitable partner for the first time in 5 years.

 

I think it’s certain that Weber will be protected and also think those who even contemplate that he will hang up the skates as soon as in 2022 are gravely mistaken.

 

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28 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

People are really blowing up this leadership thing as a detriment to Weber’s profile. Weber brings leadership, that’s true. One can tell simply by the way he handles specific situations, the words he speaks, as well as his actions. With that being said, who is saying that leaderhship is the only quality Weber brings? The only people I hear saying that, are those who are trying to bring Weber down. And then we compound that reality by coming up with arbitrary “values” that Weber’s leadership “costs”. 
 

“My personal opinion is that Weber’s leadership accounts for 50% of his human being self” says #1

 

”No. No. Weber’s leadership actually accounts for 6 million out of his 8 million cap hit” says # 2

 

Shea Weber is 42nd in scoring amongst defensemen which puts him easily inside the top 62 top pairing defensemen in the league.

 

He has a similar amount of points to other declining defensemen such as Rasmus Dahlin, Vince Dunn and Erik Karlsson. 
 

He also has the exact same amount of goals, assists, and points as declining defenseman Matias Eklholm, whom many Habs fabs are hoping for.


What’s further ignored is that Weber can have a 3 point game, and jump into the top 30. He could also just as easily actually have better years ahead of him in the future, or even be injured at the moment for those of you who are really analyzing him through a magnifying glass. Finally, give him a suitable partner for the first time in 5 years.

 

I think it’s certain that Weber will be protected and also think those who even contemplate that he will hang up the skates as soon as in 2022 are gravely mistaken.

 

We got blown away 5-0 last night and looked like we didn’t give a damn - where was the leadership that would have prevented that from happening - especially the looked like they didn’t give a damn part.

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