Gainey asking about Jokinen?

[CoRvInA]

uuuu underestimating our Captain's worth... Komi? 3.5 is enough? U dont think another team would not offer him at least 5 Mill?

Nahh I'll let this one go someone else will probably come and give you an ear full hehehe I'll pass... :ghg:

[Rooster]

Getting off subject, but yeah, I think Koivu will get a raise to sign with the Habs before getting UFA status. I'm thinking in the 4M-4.5M range for a 3 year deal. Koivu isn't about greed. He'd take that deal without testing the UFA waters I'd think.

[Roo-AH! Roo-AH!]

I'd be amazed if a guy with Koivu's history of injuries and small stature got $5 million from any team, especially given the cap system. $4 million might be reasonable, but personally I think he's fairly paid at this point.

As for Jokinen, I'd do the Ribs/Plekanec-for-Jokie deal in a minute. The guy's only 26, which means we'd be acquiring one sure-fire young player in exchange for one erratic one (Ribs) and one unproven one. Unless Plekanec becomes a superstar, that trade will work - provided, of course, the Habs lock him up to a longer-term deal.

[Komisarek the Cruncher]

5M for Koivu = No way !!!!

At that price, see ya and thanks for the good memories.

Kovalev is worth more then Koivu and he's paid 4.5M.

I seriously doubt that a team would offer him 5M. I don't see why Koivu would get or deserves a raise. His actual 3.5M is what he's worth and paying him more (max 4M) would be a stupid move. In a caped NHL, you can't afford to over pay a guy. We did it for Theo and now we're stuck with is 5.3M for 3 years when the guy is worth no more then 3, maybe 3.5M.

You have to manage a team without emotions and BG does exactly that. He will let go of Koivu if he's asking too much. I'd rather suffer for a year (not having a certain player) then cave in and be stuck with an overpaid player for years.

Examples: Khabibulin, St-Louis...their team wanted them so much that they overpaid them and are now stuck with them for years.

[Rooster]

Well signing UFA's is a different thing than signing non UFA players. Basically, if you want a UFA player you have to give him what his price is in the market. Basically, even if you might think it is an "overpayment"....you have to make the call that the player is worth that to keep or bring to the team. At 3.5M I think Koivu walks. I would think that one of 29 teams team would give him 4.5M (maybe a bit more if desperate for a 1st center with loads of heart). The question is how much is he worth (and -especially for Koivu- how much is losing him worth) for Mtl. I would think we could do 4M (maybe all the way to 4.5M) to keep him and I would think Koivu would acdept that offer -doesn't stike me as the type that will leave just to squeeze every penny he could get.

[Redlight60]

Ribs (1.1M), Zednik (1.8M) and Souray (2.6M) for Marleau (4M)+ a nobody .......what??? are u kidding? You could argue that deal was better than the one for thornton. I wouldnt do that deal. Zednik is a bonafide top second line winger, and an average 1st line guy, Riberio, a number 2 offensive center and Souray, a very good number 3 defenseman on a good team. Marleau is a very good first line center. Does that make for an even trade? Are they happy with mcauley as ther second line center? i duno, i see a lot of riberio in him. If you went with a souray, and riberio and a 4th for a marleau and a fahey, thats more realistic.

[Tony_]

Originally posted by Redlight60

Ribs (1.1M), Zednik (1.8M) and Souray (2.6M) for Marleau (4M)+ a nobody .......what??? are u kidding? You could argue that deal was better than the one for thornton. I wouldnt do that deal. Zednik is a bonafide top second line winger, and an average 1st line guy, Riberio, a number 2 offensive center and Souray, a very good number 3 defenseman on a good team. Marleau is a very good first line center. Does that make for an even trade? Are they happy with mcauley as ther second line center? i duno, i see a lot of riberio in him. If you went with a souray, and riberio and a 4th for a marleau and a fahey, thats more realistic.

Zednik a bonafide 1st line guy? Ribeiro and 2nd line center?

Wow when did this happen?

[CoRvInA]

agreed marleau aint worth that much! Ribs + Zednik or Ribs Souray +nobody... tops..

btw REdlight said Zed is bonafide 2nd line winger and an average 1st liner

[Komisarek the Cruncher]

Originally posted by Tony

Originally posted by Redlight60

Ribs (1.1M), Zednik (1.8M) and Souray (2.6M) for Marleau (4M)+ a nobody .......what??? are u kidding? You could argue that deal was better than the one for thornton. I wouldnt do that deal. Zednik is a bonafide top second line winger, and an average 1st line guy, Riberio, a number 2 offensive center and Souray, a very good number 3 defenseman on a good team. Marleau is a very good first line center. Does that make for an even trade? Are they happy with mcauley as ther second line center? i duno, i see a lot of riberio in him. If you went with a souray, and riberio and a 4th for a marleau and a fahey, thats more realistic.

Zednik a bonafide 1st line guy? Ribeiro and 2nd line center?

Wow when did this happen?

I would even add when did Souray become a number 3 D on a good team?

I think you're over estimating your Habs players Redlight60....I would make that trade in a flash. We might be giving a little more then what Marleau is worth, but not that much and we can afford to get rid of these guys except maybe Souray because we are short at D, but I'm sure BG would be able to find somebody to replace him...say a Ruslan Salei for example.

All 3 are not playing well this year and Ribs and Souray are big question marks with the new NHL, and I'm sure that the other GMs know it to.

[smon]

Nice rumour, but do you even have a source?

Or should we all just start posting stuff without concrete information to back it up..

Anyways, i'd do the trade in a snap. No question. Plekanec is probably not going to be the offensive second line centre type..and Ribiero is no Jokinen.

[Edited on 2005/12/6 by smon]

[habsfan88]

Everyone is throwing zeddy in some of these ridiculous ideas. Let's be a little more realistic - zednik is a 30 goal scorer!

[johnnyhasbeen]

If we were to jump into trades here is my dream situation

Theo and bonk to fla for Luongo and Jokinen

Ribs, Dags Sourey and Sundstrom to Ana for

Sykora and ozolinsh

Koivu Kovalev Sykora

Jokinen Ryder Zednik

Bulis Begin Higgins

Pleks Perez Dandnault

Rivet Ozolinsh

Markov Cube

Streit Komo

Luongo

Huet

we save 172,000 on cap

:idea::idea:

[Edited on 2005/12/7 by johnnyhasbeen]

[Trizzak]

well yes, that is a dream situation.

might as well make it a wet dream situation though: Dags for Forsberg.

[SoCalHab]

All these trades which involve Souray better bring back another D that is willing to protect his teammates when the opposition starts trying to intimidate us. More than any other player on our team, Souray has the respect of the opposition, something which we lacked before he came on the scene....don't underestimate his presence.

[PMAC]

I agree, SOCALHAB, SO maybe a point-getter, but he is not going to improve our defensive performance or team toughness

[Redlight60]

Am i overrating our players? Alright, whihc of them am i overrating? Is zednik not a very good second line winger?( he will get you at least 25 goals a year), riberio(he is struggling this year, can still put up the point when he wants to, im not saying he is a top 1st line center here) and souray is struggling also, but there were some who thought souray had a chance for the norris if he didnt get injured two years ago, i wasnt one of them, but he is a very good number 3 defenseman, big, strong, great shot, sticks up for teamates? please tell me guys where i went wrong?

[Haboholic]

everywhere.

[PMAC]

Originally posted by johnnyhasbeen

If we were to jump into trades here is my dream situation

Theo and bonk to fla for Luongo and Jokinen

Ribs, Dags Sourey and Sundstrom to Ana for

Sykora and ozolinsh

The first part of this is ok because Bonk is overpaid for his role and hasnt found his scoring touch in MTl

I'm not keen on the Anaheim deal because I think 4 for 2 is too much given the talent involved. Sunny is under-rated and some of you guys are giving up on Souray much too soon. Plus neither SO or PS are worth 2 nhlers each. If we are giving 4for 2 I want more talent and a draft pick in return

God, I hope they play soon so we will have something real to procrastinate about

[casseau]

Originally posted by johnnyhasbeen

If we were to jump into trades here is my dream situation

Theo and bonk to fla for Luongo and Jokinen

Ribs, Dags Sourey and Sundstrom to Ana for

Sykora and ozolinsh

Koivu Kovalev Sykora

Jokinen Ryder Zednik

Bulis Begin Higgins

Pleks Perez Dandnault

Rivet Ozolinsh

Markov Cube

Streit Komo

Luongo

Huet

we save 172,000 on cap

:idea::idea:

[Edited on 2005/12/7 by johnnyhasbeen]

You've been playing too much EA hockey...

[Mark Napier]

<i>Originally posted by johnnyhasbeen</i>

If we were to jump into trades here is my dream situation

Theo and bonk to fla for Luongo and Jokinen

Only if the Florida GM was on crack. Theo isn't good enough to trade straight up for Luongo but to add insult to injury you throw in Jokinen for Bonk? You think Bonk is as good as or better than Jokinen? Wow..

And why is everyone so eager to trade Zednick? On a team that is so anemic on offence and everyone wants to trade possibly the best scorer on the team. Wow, you guys really make me wonder. We need to add offence not subtract it.

[smon]

Is Zednik a better scorer than Kovalev?

Come on..

[Mark Napier]

In terms of goal scoring we have 3 guys that are in the 30 goal range. Kovalev is the better player and point producer but the best goal scorer is either Ryder or Zednik. You can't say Kovalev is really better at scoring goals than these guys.

[JMMR]

No way. Zednik can score no doubt but he is missing something this year. It seems without his patent hook that he often would use in the old NHL to gain leverage over an opponent and sling shot by the defender his offensive rush game is more non-existent than ever.

[smon]

You have to look at the record.

Zednik has talent, but he has scored 30 goals only once in his career.

Kovalev has topped 30 goals three times, and notched 44 once.

How I would term it is that Zednik has offensive skill, primarily as a goalscorer, but just because his main talent is goal scoring does not mean that he's better at putting the puck in the net than Kovalev. The stats don't lie.

[Mark Napier]

Kovalev is older so he had more seasons to score 30 goals. When he scored 44 he was on a team studded with stars and that was a different time when goals came easier. Zednik will outscore Kovalev this year.